Kingsbury's Air Raid

daves

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The thing is, it's not hard to figure out. All the things PFF are saying fans on here have been saying for a while. And if fans can see it DC's must be laughing their asses off.

It's a very basic, unimaginative system with very little misdirection. It's basically "You 4 guys run isolated routes from the same positions every play and hope you beat your man".

It's not based on outsmarting the defense. It relies on the defense messing up.
It's incredible that an idiot coach who can't design plays or adapt to defenses, with a lousy O-line, 2nd year QB who spends all his time gaming, one good WR, mediocre RBs, journeyman TEs, and a horrible kicker managed to produce the #13-ranked offense (#6 by yards). Might as well give up hope based on what i read here.

...dbs
 

BritCard

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This thread is really intriguing, because I hear so much positivity from so many people about this team, and then an article like this is posted and everyone nods their head like "yeah, we all know it's bad."

That's not deep insight on my part, I'm assuming it's just positive folk who are hoping for the best, but... hm.

Not really. I, and several others, have mentioned several times that Kliff's scheme is a major issue holding this offense back.
 

BullheadCardFan

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The thing is, it's not hard to figure out. All the things PFF are saying fans on here have been saying for a while. And if fans can see it DC's must be laughing their asses off.

It's a very basic, unimaginative system with very little misdirection. It's basically "You 4 guys run isolated routes from the same positions every play and hope you beat your man".

It's not based on outsmarting the defense. It relies on the defense messing up.
Difference between college defenses and pros is miles apart
 

BritCard

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It's incredible that an idiot coach who can't design plays or adapt to defenses, with a lousy O-line, 2nd year QB who spends all his time gaming, one good WR, mediocre RBs, journeyman TEs, and a horrible kicker managed to produce the #13-ranked offense (#6 by yards). Might as well give up hope based on what i read here.

...dbs

There's a bunch of stuff there not mentioned here, nor that I believe.

I like our O line, I like our WR's (I liked them enough last year too). In fact I have argued several times that the clamor for new and better WR's was pointless BECAUSE the scheme was the issue, not who is catching the ball.

Plus we are talking about the passing offense here, not the offense as a whole. Maybe it ranked highly overall but as a passing offense it was mediocre.

17th in passing YPG (Teddy Bridgewater had more YPG than Kyler)
16th in passing TD's
15th in passer rating
19th in YPA
19th in DVOA (Total offense, not passing, -2.4%)
16th in EPA

As the PFF article says, it was actually the defense that improved the most last year for those extra wins.
 

daves

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There's a bunch of stuff there not mentioned here, nor that I believe.
Yeah, i should've qualified my post to note that i wasn't just responding to you, but to the general tenor of the board lately.

You don't have to look far around here to learn that the Cards have the worst GM, a terrible HC with a scheme that will never work in the NFL and an inability to adapt. They had a useless draft and lousy free agency moves, leaving them with an old, overpriced, untalented roster and no hope to compete now or in the future. And let's not forget the incompetent DC and inability to develop players.

Is there some truth to everything above? Sure! Yet the team has improved the last two years and, though it was in disappointing fashion, went 8-8. The stats you posted show that they were average in 2020, and we all want them to be better than that. But the ownership, management, coaching, scheme, and talent can't ALL be terrible relative to the rest of the league.

...dave
 
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Stout

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To add to Daves post. I'm sure K9 or someone will blow this up but this has them at number 6 last year. You don't have the number 6 offense with a lousy HC.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings

This also shows that we were terrible on 3rd downs & TO's.


I found one on ESPN that has us at #6 offense.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team


Another. Only PFF has us at 13.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html


https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/offense/passing/2020/reg/all

Lol sure you do. That #6 is, by itself, absolutely meaningless. How many games can we point to and say KK lost us because of bad coaching? How many mental errors cost us games? Yeah, we don't have a good HC.
 

cheesebeef

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To add to Daves post. I'm sure K9 or someone will blow this up but this has them at number 6 last year. You don't have the number 6 offense with a lousy HC.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings

This also shows that we were terrible on 3rd downs & TO's.


I found one on ESPN that has us at #6 offense.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team


Another. Only PFF has us at 13.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html

remind me... are wins and losses decided by offensive yards at the end? Or points?

To add to Daves post. I'm sure K9 or someone will blow this up but this has them at number 6 last year. You don't have the number 6 offense with a lousy HC.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings

This also shows that we were terrible on 3rd downs & TO's.


I found one on ESPN that has us at #6 offense.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team


Another. Only PFF has us at 13.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html

In 2005 our offense was ranked #8 in the league in yards. Our defense was ranked 8th in the league in yards. Our record was 5-11. Our Head Coach was a lousy Dennis Green. Bottom line, the yardage stats can be deceiving and are in no way proof your coach is good.

Lol sure you do. That #6 is, by itself, absolutely meaningless. How many games can we point to and say KK lost us because of bad coaching? How many mental errors cost us games? Yeah, we don't have a good HC.

it’s even more meaningless when the offense isn’t scoring points commensurate with gaining those yards.

last time I looked, that’s how games are decided. Not by gaining more yards, but by having more points than the other team. We rank 14th in ppg last year. We ranked 16th the year before that.

mediocre numbers for offense. Just barely above league average.
 
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remind me... are wins and losses decided by offensive yards at the end? Or points?



In 2005 our offense was ranked #8 in the league in yards. Our defense was ranked 8th in the league in yards. Our record was 5-11. Our Head Coach was a lousy Dennis Green. Bottom line, the yardage stats can be deceiving and are in no way proof your coach is good.



it’s even more meaningless when the offense isn’t scoring points commensurate with gaining those yards.

last time I looked, that’s how games are decided. Not by gaining more yards, but by having more points than the other team. We rank 14th in ppg last year. We ranked 16th the year before that.

mediocre numbers for offense. Just barely above league average.

Remind me again if defense & special teams aka kicker also plays apart in wins & losses. ;)
 

BritCard

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Yeah, i should've qualified my post to note that i wasn't just responding to you, but to the general tenor of the board lately.

You don't have to look far around here to learn that the Cards have the worst GM, a terrible HC with a scheme that will never work in the NFL and an inability to adapt. They had a useless draft and lousy free agency moves, leaving them with an old, overpriced, untalented roster and no hope to compete now or in the future. And let's not forget the incompetent DC and inability to develop players.

Is there some truth to everything above? Sure! Yet the team has improved the last two years and, though it was in disappointing fashion, went 8-8. The stats you posted show that they were average in 2020, and we all want them to be better than that. But the ownership, management, coaching, scheme, and talent can't ALL be terrible relative to the rest of the league.

...dave

lol, the thing is, not everybody believes all those negatives at the same time (Well, probably @Solar7 does)

You get guys that think Keim sucks and the draft sucks but Kliff, FA and the roster are ok.

You get guys that think the roster sucks, FA sucks but the draft was good. So on and so forth, you get the idea.

So if you take the whole board you can probably find 25% of the whole think every area sucks. Just not the same 25% for each.

Personally, I like the draft, but I like most drafts until the rubber hits the road. I like the roster bar CB and TE. I'm ambivalent on Keim because I think we only get Keim lite of some internal nodding dog if he goes so why stress it?

My biggest concern for this year is Kliff and Kyler, mostly Kliff because what Kyler does is really a subset of Kliff's ability. This article isn't wrong. There are some big issues with this passing scheme that need to be resolved for us to be challengers.

What I don't know, and I'm interested to find out, is if Kliff has purposefully been restricting the offense and playing this system to help Kyler adjust or whether this is just his offense exactly how he intends it to be.
 

BritCard

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To add to Daves post. I'm sure K9 or someone will blow this up but this has them at number 6 last year. You don't have the number 6 offense with a lousy HC.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings

This also shows that we were terrible on 3rd downs & TO's.


I found one on ESPN that has us at #6 offense.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team


Another. Only PFF has us at 13.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html


https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/offense/passing/2020/reg/all

Yeah but 6th based on yards, including rushing yards. The PFF article is really about the passing offense. It does say the rushing offense has generally been good, it's passing that it is criticizing.
 

Krangthebrain

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The reason the Cardinals use so little motion and movement is because Kyler can't read a defense at a high level yet.

We can criticize Kliff, but he is doing what a play caller HAS TO do when he has a young inexperienced QB. Keep it simple in the passing game and make the plays that are there. Unfortunately Kyler hasn't even mastered the basics yet so the offense stays basic.
 

Krangthebrain

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There's a bunch of stuff there not mentioned here, nor that I believe.

I like our O line, I like our WR's (I liked them enough last year too). In fact I have argued several times that the clamor for new and better WR's was pointless BECAUSE the scheme was the issue, not who is catching the ball.

Plus we are talking about the passing offense here, not the offense as a whole. Maybe it ranked highly overall but as a passing offense it was mediocre.

17th in passing YPG (Teddy Bridgewater had more YPG than Kyler)
16th in passing TD's
15th in passer rating
19th in YPA
19th in DVOA (Total offense, not passing, -2.4%)
16th in EPA

As the PFF article says, it was actually the defense that improved the most last year for those extra wins.

And if you notice based on FA and the draft, Keim doubled down on improving the defense this offseason.
 

kerouac9

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The thing is, it's not hard to figure out. All the things PFF are saying fans on here have been saying for a while. And if fans can see it DC's must be laughing their asses off.

It's a very basic, unimaginative system with very little misdirection. It's basically "You 4 guys run isolated routes from the same positions every play and hope you beat your man".

It's not based on outsmarting the defense. It relies on the defense messing up.

You’re just articulating a difference in offensive design philosophy. Some coaches have tons and tons of plays; some coaches have a handful of plays that they can run out of a dozen formations.

The air raid is premised on an assumption that in the plays as designed the defense is going to be wrong somewhere. The question is at the NFL level whether the QB will have enough time for them to get wrong.

WR screens are a kind of misdirection. They’re trying to get the defense moving laterally to open up the seams. Unfortunately, undead Larry Fitzgerald was the guy we had to pressure the seam the past 2 years.

I agree that we’ll likely see more 10 personnel groupings as Kliff tries to asset himself this year. What will separate it is that we should have better personnel to run it.

The reason the Cardinals use so little motion and movement is because Kyler can't read a defense at a high level yet.

We can criticize Kliff, but he is doing what a play caller HAS TO do when he has a young inexperienced QB. Keep it simple in the passing game and make the plays that are there. Unfortunately Kyler hasn't even mastered the basics yet so the offense stays basic.

Most people say that a motion man helps a young quarterback because it helps him key on man vs zone. Kurt Warner in particular talks about this.
 

Chris_Sanders

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This thread is really intriguing, because I hear so much positivity from so many people about this team, and then an article like this is posted and everyone nods their head like "yeah, we all know it's bad."

That's not deep insight on my part, I'm assuming it's just positive folk who are hoping for the best, but... hm.

It's not difficult. All the pieces are there for this team to win and I still expect the roster to be further bolstered.

The only potential fly in the pudding is the coach
 
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