Kendall Marshall reactions/grades from media

[sunsfan88]

One of the things that you have to look at when it come to Marshall is, when defenses shut down his passing game, then what? If you said the team would collapse, then your probably right. With Nash, teams had a choice, Shut down his passing game and make him a shooter, or let him set teammates up and hope/defend them well enough so they miss. Marshall doesnt have that ability. When Nash wasnt in his tip top shape, teams made him a shooter, and our offense suffered immensely. His back hurt, and his legs werent there, thus creating a flat shot. Our team suffered. Teams will be able to shut Marshall down alot easier, thus making his "Talents" null in void. With Nash, we knew that if anything happened to him, we were f**ked. Our whole team relied on one player, and if he was shut down or were to get injured, well, game over. Now we are setting ourselves up with the same situation.

There is a reason the game has evolved to dominate athletic scoring PG's. They are the norm now. You need players that can score, and a scoring PG helps because the ball is already in their hands.

I get the feeling we grabbed Marshall so we can continue the tradition of obtaining sub-par talent, hoping that our PG can make them better than they really are.

It didnt work for Nash, who is 10 times the player Marshall is, so why do we think its going to work now?

 

[Mainstreet]

As was Nash, so actually #13 has been a hot spot. But Chaplin's point still stands, of course -- just substitute "toward the end of the lottery" for "at #13."

Nash was selected at #15 when drafted. No biggie.

 

[Covert Rain]

Steve Nash, as far as team defending goes.

Nash didn't improve one bit IMO. Nash was hidden in our defensive scheme and protected more than any player I have ever seen. We allowed him to play off of the weaker guard, played a ton of zone and often ran doubles of his man to force the ball out of that players hands. That was the very reason Grant or Dudley were often matched up against someone other than their natural position. Nash IMO is the MAIN reason this team gets caught into bad defensive rotations constantly.

None of that says Steve got better.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

One of the things that you have to look at when it come to Marshall is, when defenses shut down his passing game, then what? If you said the team would collapse, then your probably right. With Nash, teams had a choice, Shut down his passing game and make him a shooter, or let him set teammates up and hope/defend them well enough so they miss. Marshall doesnt have that ability. When Nash wasnt in his tip top shape, teams made him a shooter, and our offense suffered immensely. His back hurt, and his legs werent there, thus creating a flat shot. Our team suffered. Teams will be able to shut Marshall down alot easier, thus making his "Talents" null in void. With Nash, we knew that if anything happened to him, we were f**ked. Our whole team relied on one player, and if he was shut down or were to get injured, well, game over. Now we are setting ourselves up with the same situation.

There is a reason the game has evolved to dominate athletic scoring PG's. They are the norm now. You need players that can score, and a scoring PG helps because the ball is already in their hands.

I get the feeling we grabbed Marshall so we can continue the tradition of obtaining sub-par talent, hoping that our PG can make them better than they really are.

It didnt work for Nash, who is 10 times the player Marshall is, so why do we think its going to work now?

Not sure why your assuming you can "shut down" an elite passer? I dont ever remember nash's passing game being "shut down". Sure hes had a game here and there where he wasnt a dominant passer but he was never "shut down" by anybody.
Movement by the offense and the pick and roll always allows a good passer options. Especially with Marshalls size, he can see over small PGs

 

[sunsfan88]

Nash wasn't "shut down" because he can shoot. They couldn't just leave him and cover all his scoring options cause then he would shoot and light it up.

Marshall can't shoot.

 

[SirStefan32]

Nash wasn't "shut down" because he can shoot. They couldn't just leave him and cover all his scoring options cause then he would shoot and light it up.

Marshall can't shoot.

Now, I don't like the pick any better than most people, but Marshall's shooting is not the reason why I don't like the pick. Shooting is ONE thing that a player can improve. Shooting is easy to teach, and I am not as convinced as you (and some others on this board) are that he is a TERRIBLE shooter.

My concern is his defense. If your PG can not stay in front of the other PG, your entire team is ad a major disadvantage. I am not saying I expect every point guard to be a Jason Kidd-type defender, but I'd expect our point guard to be able to guard a chair. To add to this problem, the Suns are a terrible defensive team, and they simply don't have any kind of a defensive focus. I think if you put this kid in Chicago, or San Antonio, he'd be more likely to turn into as good of a defender as his speed and athleticism will allow.

I don't know- I don't like the pick either, but I REALLY think you guys are being too hard on this kid.

 

[Chaplin]

Nash didn't improve one bit IMO. Nash was hidden in our defensive scheme and protected more than any player I have ever seen. We allowed him to play off of the weaker guard, played a ton of zone and often ran doubles of his man to force the ball out of that players hands. That was the very reason Grant or Dudley were often matched up against someone other than their natural position. Nash IMO is the MAIN reason this team gets caught into bad defensive rotations constantly.

None of that says Steve got better.

Daren, in defense there is individual and team defense. Grant, for example, is a great individual defender. Steve is not. However, he is a great team defender, but that admittedly doesn't take as much skill as an individual.

 

[Chaplin]

Also we made it to a couple wcf with Nash, and I'm pretty sure every time we were eliminated it wasn't because of Steve's defense.

 

[Phrazbit]

Given what was left on the board I am totally fine with the pick. I was out with some friends at a bar and we were all terrified that they would go for Zeller and continue our obsession with siblings.

I the guy I wanted (Ross) flew up the boards. Marshall is a player that I cant imagine failing. He would need to make some big strides to become a star, but the kind of court vision and passing skills he displays are very hard to teach. Almost certainly wont be a star but barring injury I also cant see him being a bust. Should be a very solid contributor and if he learns to shoot could be a nice piece.

Really wish we had been more aggressive pre-draft though and picked up some more picks.

So, I'll give the pick itself a B+, and the Suns overall draft a D, based on the lack of aggression and initiative.

 

[Gaddabout]

The kid reminds me more of Mark Jackson than Steve Nash. Jackson was the most underrated PG of the 90s.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Now, I don't like the pick any better than most people, but Marshall's shooting is not the reason why I don't like the pick. Shooting is ONE thing that a player can improve. Shooting is easy to teach, and I am not as convinced as you (and some others on this board) are that he is a TERRIBLE shooter.

My concern is his defense. If your PG can not stay in front of the other PG, your entire team is ad a major disadvantage. I am not saying I expect every point guard to be a Jason Kidd-type defender, but I'd expect our point guard to be able to guard a chair. To add to this problem, the Suns are a terrible defensive team, and they simply don't have any kind of a defensive focus. I think if you put this kid in Chicago, or San Antonio, he'd be more likely to turn into as good of a defender as his speed and athleticism will allow.

I don't know- I don't like the pick either, but I REALLY think you guys are being too hard on this kid.

He's 6-4 and reasonably strong. He doesn't shy away from contact. He has long arms. He's not as fast as other guards but smart players learn how to use strength and angles to keep players in front of them. The way the rules are written now, with no touching outside the free throw line, its going to be very difficult for anyone to be a lockdown perimeter defender.

He will be a better defender than Nash. He certainly has the potential to be the passer and floor general that Nash is. He already is a decent shooter, but just doesn't shoot much. Nash is one of the best shooters in NBA history, so I doubt he gets to that level.

Solid pick. Good step toward adding young productive talent.

 

[elindholm]

Nash was selected at #15 when drafted. No biggie.

Oops, sorry, thanks for the correction. For some reason I thought he wore #13 because that was his draft position.

 

[sunsfan88]

Now, I don't like the pick any better than most people, but Marshall's shooting is not the reason why I don't like the pick. Shooting is ONE thing that a player can improve. Shooting is easy to teach, and I am not as convinced as you (and some others on this board) are that he is a TERRIBLE shooter.

My concern is his defense. If your PG can not stay in front of the other PG, your entire team is ad a major disadvantage. I am not saying I expect every point guard to be a Jason Kidd-type defender, but I'd expect our point guard to be able to guard a chair. To add to this problem, the Suns are a terrible defensive team, and they simply don't have any kind of a defensive focus. I think if you put this kid in Chicago, or San Antonio, he'd be more likely to turn into as good of a defender as his speed and athleticism will allow.

I don't know- I don't like the pick either, but I REALLY think you guys are being too hard on this kid.

I think the whole "Shooting is easy to teach" argument is completely flawed. If its so easy to teach, then why hasn't Rondo, who has a great HC in Doc Rivers, learned it yet? Same with John Wall, Tyreke Evans, Evan Turner, DeMar DeRozan etc.

Sure some players have been able to make great strides in improving their shot (Derrick Rose, Tony Parker etc) but that doesn't mean its easy and we can expect it out of everyone.

Cause if that's the case, then Tony Wroten should have been a top 5 pick in this draft.

 

[sunsfan88]

More than being disappointed in picking Marshall, I'm disappoited that we didn't move up like Houston did to get a SG.

We could have traded #13 and Dudley (Toronto has bee desperately looking for a SF) to the Raptors for their #8 and got either Ross or Lamb.

But no, the Suns have the SAME EXACT PASSIVE draft strategy EVERY F***ING YEAR!

 

[slinslin]

My concern is his defense. If your PG can not stay in front of the other PG, your entire team is ad a major disadvantage. I am not saying I expect every point guard to be a Jason Kidd-type defender, but I'd expect our point guard to be able to guard a chair. To add to this problem, the Suns are a terrible defensive team, and they simply don't have any kind of a defensive focus. I think if you put this kid in Chicago, or San Antonio, he'd be more likely to turn into as good of a defender as his speed and athleticism will allow.
.

Give me 1 PG that can reliably stay infront of his man.

Jason Kidd definitely can't and never could. Defense starts with your frontcourt, not with your PG.

The Suns never were a terrible defensive team because of Steve Nash.

 

[slinslin]

More than being disappointed in picking Marshall, I'm disappoited that we didn't move up like Houston did to get a SG.

We could have traded #13 and Dudley (Toronto has bee desperately looking for a SF) to the Raptors for their #8 and got either Ross or Lamb.

But no, the Suns have the SAME EXACT PASSIVE draft strategy EVERY F***ING YEAR!

Thank god the Suns did not trade Dudley and #13 for Lamb or Ross.

 

[SunsTzu]

The kid reminds me more of Mark Jackson than Steve Nash. Jackson was the most underrated PG of the 90s.

I agree that Jackson is probably the best comparison. Not really the guy you build around, but a guy who is a great compliment to pretty much any player. Since I didn't think there were any worthy build around type players available I'm fine with the pick.

 

[Joe Mama]

Give me 1 PG that can reliably stay infront of his man.

Jason Kidd definitely can't and never could. Defense starts with your frontcourt, not with your PG.

The Suns never were a terrible defensive team because of Steve Nash.

there is no way any point guards can always stay in front of his man today, especially with players being allowed to carry like they can (yes, I realize Steve Nash is one of the biggest culprits). But at the very least you want your point guard to slow it down and limit it.

If defense at the point guard position doesn't matter like you seem to be saying why would the Phoenix Suns constantly put Grant Hill on the point guard? Is that what you mean by defense starts with your frontcourt? It's possible to still be a good defensive team with a defensive liability like a Steve Nash or Kendall Marshall, but I was really hoping we wouldn't have to go through that with the next point guard.

Thank god the Suns did not trade Dudley and #13 for Lamb or Ross.

I wanted Ross or Jeremy Lamb at #13 (btw so did the Phoenix Suns regardless of what is being said now), but I agree with you. In my opinion Dudley and Gortat are the only players on the Phoenix Suns roster with positive trade value. Also, as much as I like Dudley I'm not sure there's anybody that drafted ahead of us that would have made that deal anyhow.

Joe

 

[Folster]

Man defense is overrated because, most teams utilize the pick and roll. The best lateral quickness in the world is easily thwarted with a large center or power forward setting a screen.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think the whole "Shooting is easy to teach" argument is completely flawed. If its so easy to teach, then why hasn't Rondo, who has a great HC in Doc Rivers, learned it yet? Same with John Wall, Tyreke Evans, Evan Turner, DeMar DeRozan etc.

Sure some players have been able to make great strides in improving their shot (Derrick Rose, Tony Parker etc) but that doesn't mean its easy and we can expect it out of everyone.

Cause if that's the case, then Tony Wroten should have been a top 5 pick in this draft.

... not every player is going to learn to shoot, but there are countless examples of guys who have gotten significantly better during their careers. You just named off a bunch of guys, many of whom have only been in the league 2 years. Hard to claim those guys will never improve as shooters when most are still in their early 20s.

MOST players get better as shooters during their careers. Just on our roster Dudley, Frye, Brown, Nash have all become vastly better shooters during their careers.

 

[JCSunsfan]

... not every player is going to learn to shoot, but there are countless examples of guys who have gotten significantly better during their careers. You just named off a bunch of guys, many of whom have only been in the league 2 years. Hard to claim those guys will never improve as shooters when most are still in their early 20s.

MOST players get better as shooters during their careers. Just on our roster Dudley, Frye, Brown, Nash have all become vastly better shooters during their careers.

Yes. Same with past players: Kidd, Majerle, Hornacek, Raja Bell, even Channing Frye all improved their shooting significantly over their careers (Frye played with a bad shoulder this year).

Players can also improve defensive technique so there is a level they can improve there as well. What players seldom change is the stuff that is going on between their ears. Knuckleheadedness seems to be incurable.

 

[JCSunsfan]

About his athleticism. I found this evaluation of his athletic drills. After all the moaning about his athletic abilities I found much better than I expected. The only thing he was really poor in was the lateral agility drill, but that is sometimes a technique thing. Anyway here it is, evaluate for yourself.

Kendall Marshall, UNC
Height (with/without shoes): 6-4.25/6-3.25
Weight: 198
Wingspan: 6-5.5
Reach: 8
Body Fat: 7.8 %
Hand Length/Width: 8.5/9.0
No-step vertical jump: 31.0
Maximum vertical jump: 37.0
No-step vertical reach: 10-7
Maximum vertical reach: 11-1
Bench press reps: NA
Lane agility drill: 12.03
3/4 court sprint: 3.23

Notable: Marshall's hands are pretty big, just about as big as Barnes'. Maybe that's why he's such a sure ballhandler. The 3.23-second sprint was a good showing for a player not always known for speed. That ranked him just ahead of Tony Wroten and Jeremy Lamb. And he opted out of the bench.

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Austin Rivers, Duke
Height (with/without shoes): 6-5/6-3.5
Weight: 203
Wingspan: 6-7.25
Reach: 8-0.5
Body Fat: 6.2 %
Hand Length/Width: 8.5/10.0
No-step vertical jump: 32.5
Maximum vertical jump: 37.5
No-step vertical reach: 10-9
Maximum vertical reach: 11-2
Bench press reps: 1
Lane agility drill: 11.54
3/4 court sprint: 3.32

Notable: Kind of an underwhelming set of data for Rivers. His sprint time put him right in the middle of the field and the agility drill time near the back, though the 37.5-inch vertical is nice to see. And one bench press rep at 185 pounds? Not that I could do any, but...


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[BC867]

... not every player is going to learn to shoot, but there are countless examples of guys who have gotten significantly better during their careers.

Probably the best example was Magic Johnson. He was a great player, but he become one of the top five of all time when his awful shot-put outside shot became an extremely dependable pure 3-point shot.

He didn't have to learn it to hang on. He did it to give his team everything he could. Wouldn't it have been nice if Frye had done the same for the Suns, playing up to his height and weight on a steady basis?

 

[sunsfan88]

LOL I know bleacherreport is garbage but I thought their take on the kid was pretty funny.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...marshall-latest-gaffe-for-nbas-worst-run-team

 

[mojorizen7]

LOL I know bleacherreport is garbage but I thought their take on the kid was pretty funny.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...marshall-latest-gaffe-for-nbas-worst-run-team

Lots of hyperbole,but still pretty dead-on-balls-accurate write up overall.

My grief still isn't really as much over who we drafted so much as where we drafted.

I dont like the pick but hey...we drafted 13th when we should have and could have drafted in the top 5.

The Suns foolishly made that bed last off-season,and they're likely gonna get what they payed for with Marshall.