Josh Rosen put in worst situation of any rookie QB in history

[TheCardFan]

This point and the question that has gone unanswered (name a QB that was put in a worse situation in the history of the NFL), let me to do my own research and I found this article.

Let's remind everyone what Rosen went through (which ends up being much worse than at time this article was written):

One and done HC
OC that is horrible and only makes it to week 7
New OC has 1 year of coaching experience and has never called plays
One of the worst olines in the NFL
One of the worst WR groups in the NFL (Sherfield, Chad Williams, JJ Nelson, and Jalen Tolliver)

• Don't forget Fitz is 35 and Kirk is a rookie

Add to that the number of pressures, sacks, drops, 1st and second down running plays that get 1-2 yards (setting up too many 3rd and longs), etc.

Look, I am not a Rosen apologist. I am a realist.

I would love to see another situation that was as bad or worse for a rookie QB.

Was Rosen great? No. Did he miss throws? Of course but what rookie doesn't?

This is much bigger than that.

___________________________________________________________________________

In my opinion, these five factors should be prioritized in this order when evaluating the landing spot for a young quarterback. If the team he ends up on isn't strong in at least a couple of these five areas, the odds of him succeeding are slim to none.

1. Offensive coaching/scheme

2. Offensive line/pass protection

3. Head coach/culture

4. Receivers/weapons

5. Defense

JOSH ROSEN, ARIZONA CARDINALS

Offensive coaching/scheme - 1

Is zero an option? It's almost unfathomable for an offensive coaching situation to be worse for a rookie quarterback. Not only was Mike McCoy clearly unfit for the title of offensive coordinator based on his history at the position, but he also lasted just five games into Rosen's career.

With Byron Leftwich assuming the offensive reins, we'll see if things change from the current train wreck Rosen is firmly embedded in.

Offensive line/pass protection - 1

According to PFF, Josh Rosen is getting rid of the football in 2.5 seconds or less 58% of the time, 4th quickest amongst starting QBs in the NFL.

Yet, he is STILL under more pressure on his dropbacks than any quarterback in the league other than Deshaun Watson. Truly incredible.

That should tell you everything you need to know about how bad Arizona's offensive line situation is.

Head coach/culture - 1

The GM got arrested for a DUI this offseason. The offensive coordinator has been fired before the midway point of the season. The new head coach has made more clueless decisions in half a season than some coaches do in their entire tenure with a team. All of a sudden the Arizona Cardinals are the picture of instability.

Receivers/weapons - 3

I figured no. 1 and no. 3 on this list would be bad, and knew no. 2 would be horrible, but I did not expect Arizona's receivers to struggle the way they have this season. Six dropped passes in Rosen's first start, receivers running wrong routes, pass-catchers failing to finish in contested catch spots despite well-placed balls. It's been frustrating to watch this group operate this season. There is promise with Christian Kirk and Rosen's budding chemistry, however.

Defense - 2

You could probably give the Cardinals a 1 in every category if you wanted to, but I'm giving the defense a slight benefit of the doubt because of how pitiful the offense is. They've been put in some bad spots, but it's also the league's worst run defense and isn't much better against the pass. Steve Wilks has not made a positive impact in any way yet.

Summary (8/25)

The Cardinals are the worst situation for a rookie quarterback in the NFL, and it isn't particularly close. They scored a 3-out-of-15 for the three most important aspects of a rookie quarterback's situation, and aren't above average in any area.

That's just one man's opinion of the team of course, but I doubt you'll find anyone of credibility to disagree. It's a disaster. Leftwich is the best present hope for getting Rosen some help.


https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/the-trials-and-tribulations-of-young-quarterbacks

 

[Garthshort]

Old news. Unless the team uses it to enhance Josh's trade value.Let's move on.

 

[PACardsFan]

This point and the question that has gone unanswered (name a QB that was put in a worse situation in the history of the NFL), let me to do my own research and I found this article.

Let's remind everyone what Rosen went through (which ends up being much worse than at time this article was written):

One and done HC
OC that is horrible and only makes it to week 7
New OC has 1 year of coaching experience and has never called plays
One of the worst olines in the NFL
One of the worst WR groups in the NFL (Sherfield, Chad Williams, JJ Nelson, and Jalen Tolliver)

• Don't forget Fitz is 35 and Kirk is a rookie

Add to that the number of pressures, sacks, drops, 1st and second down running plays that get 1-2 yards (setting up too many 3rd and longs), etc.

Look, I am not a Rosen apologist. I am a realist.

I would love to see another situation that was as bad or worse for a rookie QB.

Was Rosen great? No. Did he miss throws? Of course but what rookie doesn't?

This is much bigger than that.

___________________________________________________________________________

In my opinion, these five factors should be prioritized in this order when evaluating the landing spot for a young quarterback. If the team he ends up on isn't strong in at least a couple of these five areas, the odds of him succeeding are slim to none.

1. Offensive coaching/scheme

2. Offensive line/pass protection

3. Head coach/culture

4. Receivers/weapons

5. Defense

JOSH ROSEN, ARIZONA CARDINALS

Offensive coaching/scheme - 1

Is zero an option? It's almost unfathomable for an offensive coaching situation to be worse for a rookie quarterback. Not only was Mike McCoy clearly unfit for the title of offensive coordinator based on his history at the position, but he also lasted just five games into Rosen's career.

With Byron Leftwich assuming the offensive reins, we'll see if things change from the current train wreck Rosen is firmly embedded in.

Offensive line/pass protection - 1

According to PFF, Josh Rosen is getting rid of the football in 2.5 seconds or less 58% of the time, 4th quickest amongst starting QBs in the NFL.

Yet, he is STILL under more pressure on his dropbacks than any quarterback in the league other than Deshaun Watson. Truly incredible.

That should tell you everything you need to know about how bad Arizona's offensive line situation is.

Head coach/culture - 1

The GM got arrested for a DUI this offseason. The offensive coordinator has been fired before the midway point of the season. The new head coach has made more clueless decisions in half a season than some coaches do in their entire tenure with a team. All of a sudden the Arizona Cardinals are the picture of instability.

Receivers/weapons - 3

I figured no. 1 and no. 3 on this list would be bad, and knew no. 2 would be horrible, but I did not expect Arizona's receivers to struggle the way they have this season. Six dropped passes in Rosen's first start, receivers running wrong routes, pass-catchers failing to finish in contested catch spots despite well-placed balls. It's been frustrating to watch this group operate this season. There is promise with Christian Kirk and Rosen's budding chemistry, however.

Defense - 2

You could probably give the Cardinals a 1 in every category if you wanted to, but I'm giving the defense a slight benefit of the doubt because of how pitiful the offense is. They've been put in some bad spots, but it's also the league's worst run defense and isn't much better against the pass. Steve Wilks has not made a positive impact in any way yet.

Summary (8/25)

The Cardinals are the worst situation for a rookie quarterback in the NFL, and it isn't particularly close. They scored a 3-out-of-15 for the three most important aspects of a rookie quarterback's situation, and aren't above average in any area.

That's just one man's opinion of the team of course, but I doubt you'll find anyone of credibility to disagree. It's a disaster. Leftwich is the best present hope for getting Rosen some help.


https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/the-trials-and-tribulations-of-young-quarterbacks

You're not taking into account that Josh also contributed to the fact that our offense was unwatchable. Yes, the entire coaching staff was abysmal. Yes, the Oline sucked. And yes, Josh Rosen was awful too. Josh can be good, as long as everything else around him is good. Can we trust this organization to make EVERYTHING around him good/great?? After watching this team since 1963, I have to say no. I have to laugh when MB talks about how he's always studying & talking to franchises that routinely win championships. Hell, we are the OLDEST franchise in the NFL. Why aren't teams coming to us? After all these years, we can barely get to 1st base, let alone 2nd. For this franchise to sniff a championship, they need to be GREAT at the most impactful position in the sport. It'll be a long time before we'll have the opportunity we have right now. Don't blow it Cardinals. Murray is the guy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What concerns me the most is that Josh didn't have one really good game. Not one.

 

[TheCardFan]

Rosen Set-up for Failure

Great debate about Rosen's rookie year and comparing it to Goff.

https://www.rotoworld.com/video/nfl/rosen-set-failure

 

[BW52]

You're not taking into account that Josh also contributed to the fact that our offense was unwatchable. Yes, the entire coaching staff was abysmal. Yes, the Oline sucked. And yes, Josh Rosen was awful too. Josh can be good, as long as everything else around him is good. Can we trust this organization to make EVERYTHING around him good/great?? After watching this team since 1963, I have to say no. I have to laugh when MB talks about how he's always studying & talking to franchises that routinely win championships. Hell, we are the OLDEST franchise in the NFL. Why aren't teams coming to us? After all these years, we can barely get to 1st base, let alone 2nd. For this franchise to sniff a championship, they need to be GREAT at the most impactful position in the sport. It'll be a long time before we'll have the opportunity we have right now. Don't blow it Cardinals. Murray is the guy.

More nonsense from the murray cultists.
Just say no to FRODO for QB

 

[Chris_Sanders]

David Carr had it way worse than Rosen his rookie year and that is just off the top of my head.

76 sacks compared to 45.

His top receivers were Cory Bradford and Jabar Gafney

Their defense was worse and of course it was because it was an expansion team roster.

It's just recency bias to say that no one has ever had to deal with what Rosen had to deal with.

Carr: QB Rating 62.8 TD 9 INT 15 2424 yards 52.5% completion
Rosen QB Rating 66.7 TD 11 INT 14 2278 yards 55.2% completion

So hey Rosen was marginally better in much better circumstances

 

[slanidrac16]

How many on this site whether you are pro -Rosen or pro- Murray would be happy with Rosen being here with 35 tds 14 ints. And 4000 yds?

 

[slanidrac16]

David Carr had it way worse than Rosen his rookie year and that is just off the top of my head.

76 sacks compared to 45.

His top receivers were Cory Bradford and Jabar Gafney

Their defense was worse and of course it was because it was an expansion team roster.

It's just recency bias to say that no one has ever had to deal with what Rosen had to deal with.

Carr: QB Rating 62.8 TD 9 INT 15 2424 yards 52.5% completion
Rosen QB Rating 66.7 TD 11 INT 14 2278 yards 55.2% completion

So hey Rosen was marginally better in much better circumstances

I wouldn’t call that much better circumstances.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

30 less sacks. Much better receivers. Much better defense.

Rosen was in a much better circumstance than David Carr.

The idea that Rosen has had it worse than anyone ever and that is why he sucked is just a bunch of hope and hooey.

 

[BW52]

30 less sacks. Much better receivers. Much better defense.

Rosen was in a much better circumstance than David Carr.

The idea that Rosen has had it worse than anyone ever and that is why he sucked is just a bunch of hope and hooey.

Stats you don`t agree with is hope and hooey?Not surprised at all .

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What stats? I just gave you the stats.

 

[slanidrac16]

30 less sacks. Much better receivers. Much better defense.

Rosen was in a much better circumstance than David Carr.

The idea that Rosen has had it worse than anyone ever and that is why he sucked is just a bunch of hope and hooey.

Still not sure what I want the Cards to do but I will defend my belief that Rosen was in a terrible situation. Starting with a coaching staff that was simply terrible and a OC that was fired twice in the previous two years before we fired him last year. Could Rosen have played better? Yes. But he wasn’t supposed to playing at least not in week 3. I think Rosen is capable of being a better than average qb in the right situation. Better or not as good as Murray? We’ll see.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The rush to defend Rosen is just comical because half the comments don't even make sense.

It's always this:

Rosen defender: Here is a supposition stated as if it is fact with nothing tangible to support it.

I respond with: Here are tangible things that dispute your supposition

Rosen defender: Stats are lies! You are lies. To heck with your foosball stats. Foosball stats are the devil!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Still not sure what I want the Cards to do but I will defend my belief that Rosen was in a terrible situation. Starting with a coaching staff that was simply terrible and a OC that was fired twice in the previous two years before we fired him last year. Could Rosen have played better? Yes. But he wasn’t supposed to playing at least not in week 3. I think Rosen is capable of being a better than average qb in the right situation. Better or not as good as Murray? We’ll see.

I agree he was in a bad situation. He was in a bad situation and produced bad results.

I do not agree with the idea that he has had it worse than anyone ever in the NFL. That part is the hope and hooey.

 

[juza76]

What concerns me the most is that Josh didn't have one really good game. Not one.

And we saw just some very good throws in his first 3 games then looked more inaccurate with the season progressing
a lack of confidence and probably not the right mindset to face adversities
not a winner traits

The rush to defend Rosen is just comical because half the comments don't even make sense.

It's always this:

Rosen defender: Here is a supposition stated as if it is fact with nothing tangible to support it.

I respond with: Here are tangible things that dispute your supposition

Rosen defender: Stats are lies! You are lies. To heck with your foosball stats. Foosball stats are the devil!

yes and what about comparing when he had a clean pocket, his stats were not good even with time to throw, worse then lamar jackson, a running qb

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How many on this site whether you are pro -Rosen or pro- Murray would be happy with Rosen being here with 35 tds 14 ints. And 4000 yds?

To put those exact stats into context, 2 QBs in the entire NFL made those marks in 2018. Tom Brady and Matt Ryan

So would I want Tom Brady or Matt Ryan? Yes I would

Everyone else either didn't through enough TDs (Only 4 QBs threw that many TDs), didn't throw enough yards (12 QBs with that many yards), or threw too many interceptions (Luck and TheRapist)

 

[slanidrac16]

The rush to defend Rosen is just comical because half the comments don't even make sense.

It's always this:

Rosen defender: Here is a supposition stated as if it is fact with nothing tangible to support it.

I respond with: Here are tangible things that dispute your supposition

Rosen defender: Stats are lies! You are lies. To heck with your foosball stats. Foosball stats are the devil!

.
But Chris can one not compare Goff with what Rosen went through? First year totally sucked and branded bust. Second year lead the team to a playoff game and in year 3 to the super bowl. Why is it totally out of the realm of possibility than in Rosen’s second year with a new coach and system along with surrounding him with 2 or 3 playmakers that he could enjoy similar results?

 

[JeffGollin]

I've heard investment mavens point out that basing decisions on past performance will often leave you high and dry.

What's important is expected future performance.

Two dudes side by side.

How do you see the season (& the future) working out for each of them? Then pick the dude who you expect will do best.

Not that past performance won't shape the future.

Just don't overthink.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Rosen had a better rookie year than Troy Aikman (similar size and also out of UCLA). Pretty sure the Cowboys were glad they stuck it out with their top QB pick. Hope we do, too. BTW: Troy never put up the best stats and percentages, but he was part of a team that won 3 SB's.

 

[AZCrazy]

Seasoned veterans would have (and did) fail in the same circumstance the rook was put into last year. Watching the games, he could just have easily been 6-7 as he was 3-10, which would have been truly remarkable. I wouldn't give up on him at this point. To be sure, he could have been 0-13 as well, but the what if's are true of any qb.
The qb needs a team around him to win, true anywhere. Kyler Murray on this same team with no significant upgrades will fail. The top pick (a once a generation situation) is what needs to be used to flood the team with talent. Picking Murray trades one rookie for another on the same offensive roster.

 

[slanidrac16]

I've heard investment mavens point out that basing decisions on past performance will often leave you high and dry.

What's important is expected future performance.

Two dudes side by side.

How do you see the season (& the future) working out for each of them? Then pick the dude who you expect will do best.

Don't overthink.

Here’s the problem . It’s like the game show Let’s Make A Deal. Do you want to keep the money in your hand to go for what is behind curtain #2.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

.
But Chris can one not compare Goff with what Rosen went through? First year totally sucked and branded bust. Second year lead the team to a playoff game and in year 3 to the super bowl. Why is it totally out of the realm of possibility than in Rosen’s second year with a new coach and system along with surrounding him with 2 or 3 playmakers that he could enjoy similar results?

There are 3 QBs that were as bad as Rosen in the history of the NFL and have had good careers. Stafford and Goff.

EDIT: Added Aikman because BIM is correct there.

Goff's QBase was double Rosen's so he was just much more likely to make the giant leap that he did.

QBASE Top 10 Prospects Since 1996

PlayerProjected DYAR

Philip Rivers 1,969
Carson Palmer 1,934
Donovan McNabb 1,831
Peyton Manning 1,306
Marcus Mariota 1,302
Russell Wilson 1,246
Byron Leftwich 1,239
Ben Roethlisberger 1,227
Jared Goff 1,211
Aaron Rodgers 1,205


Is it possible Rosen will become an elite starter? Yes it is is possible but it is REALLY unlikely.

 

[BW52]

The rush to defend Rosen is just comical because half the comments don't even make sense.

It's always this:

Rosen defender: Here is a supposition stated as if it is fact with nothing tangible to support it.

I respond with: Here are tangible things that dispute your supposition

Rosen defender: Stats are lies! You are lies. To heck with your foosball stats. Foosball stats are the devil!

The rush to crush and destroy Rosen is laughable.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I hope you younger guys especially, remain as passionate about our gov't/elections as you are about our qb dilemma.