Isaiah Simmons and the 5th year option

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,966
Reaction score
13,447
Simmons might be one of those guys you want to keep at the right price -- lets say $5mm per year (basically his rookie contract number) or something like that -- but not at the $12.7mm option number.

the problem is players seem more open to taking a pay cut from a new team
 

Finito

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Posts
21,034
Reaction score
13,785
That may very well happen. But, you’re missing an important factor. If that does happen, it’ll happen at a significantly lower cost than what it’ll take us to extend him. Exactly why you don’t draft a Swiss Army knife at 8 overall. There’s a new sheriff in town. For as long as he’s here, we won’t be drafting non-impact positions at 8 overall again. Hopefully, lesson learned.

Keep thinking it’s the players.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,645
Reaction score
16,968
Location
The Giant Toaster
Not a doubt in my mind he goes to a good team and just explodes
Certainly possible a change of scenery unlocks something we haven’t seen in him consistently. He’s very talented, but unlike Ayton he’s actually tough, plays hard and genuinely wants to be great. You can coach greatness out of those types of athletes.
 

AZ Native

Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Posts
15,841
Reaction score
8,034
Location
Cave Creek
Simmons can prove me wrong this year with a new coaching staff and philosophy but I am not holding my breath. I hope he excels but I just don’t see it.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,462
Reaction score
16,606
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Simmons might be one of those guys you want to keep at the right price -- lets say $5mm per year (basically his rookie contract number) or something like that -- but not at the $12.7mm option number.

the problem is players seem more open to taking a pay cut from a new team
Ego :)
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,608
Reaction score
21,708
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
That may very well happen. But, you’re missing an important factor. If that does happen, it’ll happen at a significantly lower cost than what it’ll take us to extend him. Exactly why you don’t draft a Swiss Army knife at 8 overall. There’s a new sheriff in town. For as long as he’s here, we won’t be drafting non-impact positions at 8 overall again. Hopefully, lesson learned.
Uh, he's had one draft. How can you possibly know that? Also, the guy we drafted will be playing a non-impact position this season.
 

Dr. Jones

Has No Time For Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
25,786
Reaction score
14,438
Not a doubt in my mind he goes to a good team and just explodes

Keep thinking it’s the players.
IS is quietly thanking his lucky stars that he only has one year left here. Is he a star? Hell no. Is his talent worth another year of control for roughly 12mm dollars with a brand new DC coming in? Absolutely. Would that extra year possibly lead to an extension in the 6 to 7mm per year range? Possibly. Now that he knows he's a FA in 12 months? Absolutely not. All leverage is lost.

We continue to lower the bar. Continue to not learn from our recent mistakes, and continue to be the place people come to get either short-term paid or relax before they retire, or both. This franchise is a 40 year joke with small 2 to 5 year blips every once in a while.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,363
Reaction score
37,924
Location
UK
IS is quietly thanking his lucky stars that he only has one year left here. Is he a star? Hell no. Is his talent worth another year of control for roughly 12mm dollars with a brand new DC coming in? Absolutely. Would that extra year possibly lead to an extension in the 6 to 7mm per year range? Possibly. Now that he knows he's a FA in 12 months? Absolutely not. All leverage is lost.

We continue to lower the bar. Continue to not learn from our recent mistakes, and continue to be the place people come to get either short-term paid or relax before they retire, or both. This franchise is a 40 year joke with small 2 to 5 year blips every once in a while.

I don't agree with this.

I don't think anyone is going to accept a $6-7m extension after you just paid them $12m. Any agent worth their salt is going to say "You thought he was worth $12m for last year. That's our baseline".

Many players who have their options declined re-sign with the team and the majority of the league declined 5th years, including all linebackers.
 
Last edited:

Dr. Jones

Has No Time For Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
25,786
Reaction score
14,438
I don't agree with this.

I don't think anyone is going to accept a $6-7m extension after you just paid them $12m. Any agent worth their salt is going to say "You thought he was worth $12m for last year. That's our baseline".

Many players who have their options declined re-sign with the team and the majority of the league declined 5th years, including all linebackers.
If he's owed 12mm on the franchise tag but you offer 4 years for 30mm with 24 guaranteed he'd have to think about it. He's guaranteed twice as much as the tag, receives instant comfort via the extension, and be free three years after the franchise tag ends.

You offer it BEFORE you hit the tag deadline this summer and before he plays the year on it. It would scrap year one but give him the peace of mind of a long term deal.

It works all over the league. We just rarely ever do it.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
10,035
Reaction score
11,561
Location
York, PA
Uh, he's had one draft. How can you possibly know that? Also, the guy we drafted will be playing a non-impact position this season.
Because if you listened to both JG & MO, that’s EXACTLY what they have said. Our early picks will be at impact positions moving forward. That would primarily be OT, Edge, CB. It’s not what I think, it’s what they said.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,608
Reaction score
21,708
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Because if you listened to both JG & MO, that’s EXACTLY what they have said. Our early picks will be at impact positions moving forward. That would primarily be OT, Edge, CB. It’s not what I think, it’s what they said.
Everybody tells the truth when they discuss their draft strategy.
 

WisconsinCard

Herfin BIg Time
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Posts
15,503
Reaction score
6,671
Location
In A Cigar Bar Near You
Uh, he's had one draft. How can you possibly know that? Also, the guy we drafted will be playing a non-impact position this season.
How do you know this? He may be, but he wasn't drafted to be a guard. Just as likely he could be a starting tackle this year. Bottom line is he plays an impact position. So I would have to say so far man haws been true to his word.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,608
Reaction score
21,708
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
The Cardinals drafted OL, Edge, CB with their first 3 picks. Just like they said they would. So I guess they were telling the truth after all???
I guess this is the only draft Monti is going to run? He was true to his word this year. Maybe he'll follow that in coming drafts, maybe he won't. It's not like we're going to get mad and say "But you promised!" if he doesn't hew to that statement in the coming years.
 

Dr. Jones

Has No Time For Love
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Posts
25,786
Reaction score
14,438
Keim said he would also only draft at the impact positions in round 1. He lied.... Or at the very least he wears a liars uniform. In a lying front office. For a punk liar owner.

OT, CB, Edge, QB.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,363
Reaction score
37,924
Location
UK
Round 1 is a bit broad because there is a vast difference between pick 5 and pick 25 but in the top 10 teams should only be drafting OT, WR, QB, Edge, DT or CB.

Never TE, RB, LB, IOL, S.

To even break into the top 15 they would need to be a special talent.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,608
Reaction score
21,708
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Round 1 is a bit broad because there is a vast difference between pick 5 and pick 25 but in the top 10 teams should only be drafting OT, WR, QB, Edge, DT or CB.

Never TE, RB, LB, IOL, S.

To even break into the top 15 they would need to be a special talent.
Ray Lewis, Ronnie Lott, Travis Kelce, Mike Webster, and Barry Sanders say hi.

In general, I agree with you, but only in general. The only absolute in the draft is that there are few absolutes. Even though the Cards have done it in the past, I think it's safe to say you should never, ever take a kicker in the first round, let alone the top 10. It would be absurd to ignore someone you feel is the next HoF player, however, because they don't play a premium position.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,539
Reaction score
21,654
Ray Lewis, Ronnie Lott, Travis Kelce, Mike Webster, and Barry Sanders say hi.

In general, I agree with you, but only in general. The only absolute in the draft is that there are few absolutes. Even though the Cards have done it in the past, I think it's safe to say you should never, ever take a kicker in the first round, let alone the top 10. It would be absurd to ignore someone you feel is the next HoF player, however, because they don't play a premium position.
I really don’t get why you keep using players from completely different eras of football, man. Travis Kelce is the only one from this era & he wasn’t even drafted in the first round.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,608
Reaction score
21,708
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
I really don’t get why you keep using players from completely different eras of football, man. Travis Kelce is the only one from this era & he wasn’t even drafted in the first round.
So you're saying none of those players would be any good now? Okaaay. Also, thanks for avoiding the point.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,539
Reaction score
21,654
So you're saying none of those players would be any good now? Okaaay. Also, thanks for avoiding the point.
I didn’t say that. We’ve had this debate repeatedly. Look at your point, you gotta go back over 20 years to where positional value is much different to what it is now. You’ve done this verbatim. The Mike Webster mention is funny cause positional value obviously wasn’t a thing & he wasn’t even drafted in the first round. Recent RBs like Barkley & Elliot were perceived as “Hall of Fame talents” coming out, but Elliot might be washed out of the league before 30 & Barkley obviously hasn’t consistent lived up to his draft billing.
 

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
26,038
Reaction score
33,107
Location
BirdGangThing
I guess this is the only draft Monti is going to run? He was true to his word this year. Maybe he'll follow that in coming drafts, maybe he won't. It's not like we're going to get mad and say "But you promised!" if he doesn't hew to that statement in the coming years.
You know better....lol There will absolutely be people on here claiming that.
 

Staff online

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
542,176
Posts
5,306,325
Members
6,290
Latest member
stbmd
Top