Is Jeff Hornacek the right choice for the Suns?

Folster

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Management really needs to decide what to do with the Morris twins. IMO it was a big mistake getting Morris. Its hard to build team chemistry with them on the team.

I think it's too early to give up on Markieff as he has shown that he could be a legitimate piece to build around. I do; however think it's time to get rid of Marcus as any debatable benefit that he provided to helping Markieff develop has surely been realized or exhausted. As a result of their extremely tight bond they live in an echo chamber where legit criticism is seen as and attack on both of them. They are committed to themselves first before the team and that is bad for chemistry as you stated. Trading Macus will force Markieff to stand on his own and hopefully commit to the team. If he pouts and wilts without his brother then we know he's not part of the future. Surely these two didn't think they'd play their NBA careers on the same team.

I'd trade Marcus for Dudley and his lockeroom presence in a heartbeat. Moving Marcus would also open up more time for Warren.
 

Mainstreet

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I think it's too early to give up on Markieff as he has shown that he could be a legitimate piece to build around. I do; however think it's time to get rid of Marcus as any debatable benefit that he provided to helping Markieff develop has surely been realized or exhausted. As a result of their extremely tight bond they live in an echo chamber where legit criticism is seen as and attack on both of them. They are committed to themselves first before the team and that is bad for chemistry as you stated. Trading Macus will force Markieff to stand on his own and hopefully commit to the team. If he pouts and wilts without his brother then we know he's not part of the future. Surely these two didn't think they'd play their NBA careers on the same team.

I'd trade Marcus for Dudley and his lockeroom presence in a heartbeat. Moving Marcus would also open up more time for Warren.

I don't see anyone trading for Marcus alone because of the brother situation. I think the rest of the NBA realizes that.
 
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sunsfan88

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I don't see anyone trading for Marcus alone because of the brother situation. I think the rest of the NBA realizes that.

Perhaps we could use a 1st round pick to entice another team. Like the 76ers.
 

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Here's some perspective on our front office/coaching and the rebuild process. We are still paying Josh Childress and Michael Beasley. We were spoiled by a quick turn around last year when we were supposed to be one of the worst teams in the league. Everything went perfectly last year. Green had his best season, Plumlee looked fantastic for the first half of the year, and the Suns locker room ran like a well oiled machine.

Just a few years ago we were watching an aging Nash and Grant Hill carry a youth and talent devoid team on their backs. We have some nice youth an pieces now. McDonough has made some nice moves, but has also made a few misteps recently. I'll take the recent results any day over what Lance Blanks and Lyndsey Hunter brought us.


Yea... And, we don't have a legit PF and merely an unproven developing player at center... Along with two PG's who are turnover crazy, along with Kief being a selfish mental midget.... Ughhh....
 

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I don't think the Almighty Pop himself could do anything with this team.
This team is atrocious.
From the Front Office to the Coaching staff to the roster, that says it all.

Despite all these years out of the playoffs, the team's approach of doing-and-undoing, doing-and-undoing hasn't worked.

'Sorry to say that blowing it all up and starting again with a different staff and approach is the only way to go . . . even if it means another half decade of development.

Style over substance has not worked. It is time to build substance. I believe that once the fans begin to see a solid foundation being built, they -- we -- will support the team.
 

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I heard on 98.7 yesterday that the Suns were able to have their first practice since the trade, a 3 hour one, before the Magic game. That may explain why Knight was more comfortable and how we were able to pull out a win.

Can you imagine being on team that is just above average in a highly competitive professional sports team, having your roster completely gutted in the middle of the season, new players and a starter added, and players who haven't been playing being mixed into the rotation?

Basketball, and especially the defensive rotations, is highly dependent upon chemistry and being familiar with your teammates and where they are going to be. I think this has a lot to do with our current problems and why we will struggle for the rest of the year.

I think even "Pop" would have a tough time with that.
 

BC867

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Can you imagine being on team that is just above average in a highly competitive professional sports team, having your roster completely gutted in the middle of the season, new players and a starter added, and players who haven't been playing being mixed into the rotation?
And that falls on the Front Office. They cannot see beyond the end of their collective noses. ;)
 

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The season is officially over as far as there is no way the team can make the playoffs. They are 4 games back from OKC and 3.5 behind NO with 6 games to go. There is only 1 spot and virtually no way the Suns can win out with both OKC & NO losing every game remaining. There is only 6 games to go but I believe the front office and Hornacek realize the playoffs aren't happening and they can't even spin that to the fans, the casual, hardcore, or homers, anymore like they've been doing since the trade deadline. I think they’ve known that for longer but with a young team and waning fan interest they tried to give the impression they were really in the hunt. The main reason I am against tanking is because of the effect it can have on young players development. They should be playing to win every game and playing at 100% for all 48 minutes. With only 6 games left though I think the team needs to try and “tank” in a way by giving Warren, Goodwin, and Bullock quality minutes consistently. If they lose to Utah today then the Jazz will be just 2.5 game back while they’d have 6 games left and the Suns just 5. It would also mean Utah wins the season series so if they finished with the same record the Suns would move from #13 to #12 in the draft, which isn’t much but that’s more pingpong balls. It’s a 93.5% chance of staying put at 12th, while 13th is 96%, and 14th is 98.2%. Long term it’s better to give more minutes to the youngsters and gain that 5% shot of moving compared to the questionable rotations the team has had virtually all season.

Seeing how Jeff handles the younger players minutes will be interesting over the next few games. I think the biggest complaint with him this season is how poorly he’s handled the rotation. It’s been anything but consistent all year long and injuries have had very little to do with that. If he managed the 3 PG’s we had better perhaps Goran wouldn’t have asked to be traded. He was quoted in the offseason and preseason that he wanted 2 PG’s on the floor at all times but often Bledsoe would sit with Goran and IT & Green would be playing the guard spots. Those 2 together set a bad precedent for ball movement as they’re basically the same type of score first players who rarely pass. Whenever IT played with either Bledsoe or Dragic though he was the primary PG on the floor. I’m not sure if it was due to his size, style, or what but that didn’t help keep the other guards happy and it also caused other bench players like Marcus to throw up bad shots and play ISO ball because he knew if he was out there with Green and Thomas he’d rarely get passed to, same goes for the other 2nd unit players. Plumlee lost his starting spot to Len but Hornacek didn’t even use Plumlee enough to keep him content being a backup. I know reports came out that he requested a trade prior to the 1st of the year but he obviously didn’t have the pull or talent like Goran so there wasn’t much traction there. After the deadline with the new roster the lineup has been odd too, with guys on 10 day deals playing more than Goodwin, Warren and/or Bullock. It’s not like Curry, Price, or the guy they have now will be with the team next year, same goes for Thornton who has received too many minutes since coming over from Boston. He’s making about 9.5 million this year but it’s expiring and he shouldn’t be brought back even at the minimum. There are too many young players who should be seeing those minutes and he sucks anyways. Hornacek did a good job of managing everyones time last season for the most part but it seems he’s lost it this year completely. Hopefully the team gets more balanced in the offseason and the team has a fairly consistent rotation next year, with both Warren & Goodwin being in the rotation. They’ve earned their spots with their play when given the time and should only be better after another offseason and training camp.

Warren and Goodwin have both displayed they deserve consistent minutes since the All Star break roster shake-up. Bullock hasn’t gotten much time at all since he was acquired which really makes me wonder why even acquire him in the first place. It’s not like the team needed more wing players. He saw more time in LA on a legit contender. Whenever Goodwin or Warren string together a few good games with decent minutes they end up playing really limited minutes the next game for seemingly no reason or they don't play at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if Warren doesn’t see any minutes in tonights game since he’s strung 3 good games together, averaging 26.4 minutes, 16 point on 71% shooting, 3.7 boards, 1 steal, and 1 block a night. He had a DNP just 4 days ago though after playing 9 games in a row with averages of 17.1 minutes, 7.3 points on 63% shooting, and 2.7 rebounds. He’s not a liability on defense either and he’s probably the best player on the team at moving without the ball. He has the talent to be a 1st or 2nd team Rookie this year but he’s only played in 34 games due to D-League assignments and DNP’s. Goodwin is also a lot better than last season and is looking good for the most part but he’s getting his minutes messed with just as much. He’ll play solid for a few games averaging close to 20 minutes and then he’ll get benched for the whole game or see 2-3 minutes out of nowhere, like against OKC to start the 4th when the game was tied and that’s it.
 

Mainstreet

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The season is officially over as far as there is no way the team can make the playoffs. They are 4 games back from OKC and 3.5 behind NO with 6 games to go. There is only 1 spot and virtually no way the Suns can win out with both OKC & NO losing every game remaining. There is only 6 games to go but I believe the front office and Hornacek realize the playoffs aren't happening and they can't even spin that to the fans, the casual, hardcore, or homers, anymore like they've been doing since the trade deadline. I think they’ve known that for longer but with a young team and waning fan interest they tried to give the impression they were really in the hunt. The main reason I am against tanking is because of the effect it can have on young players development. They should be playing to win every game and playing at 100% for all 48 minutes. With only 6 games left though I think the team needs to try and “tank” in a way by giving Warren, Goodwin, and Bullock quality minutes consistently. If they lose to Utah today then the Jazz will be just 2.5 game back while they’d have 6 games left and the Suns just 5. It would also mean Utah wins the season series so if they finished with the same record the Suns would move from #13 to #12 in the draft, which isn’t much but that’s more pingpong balls. It’s a 93.5% chance of staying put at 12th, while 13th is 96%, and 14th is 98.2%. Long term it’s better to give more minutes to the youngsters and gain that 5% shot of moving compared to the questionable rotations the team has had virtually all season.

I don't see the Suns moving much as far as ping pong balls goes but who knows. The Suns don't need to tank as they have done a nice job of losing on their own. However, I think the Suns should play the youngsters to prepare for their future. Winning does not have much meaning for the rest of the season.

Seeing how Jeff handles the younger players minutes will be interesting over the next few games. I think the biggest complaint with him this season is how poorly he’s handled the rotation. It’s been anything but consistent all year long and injuries have had very little to do with that. If he managed the 3 PG’s we had better perhaps Goran wouldn’t have asked to be traded. He was quoted in the offseason and preseason that he wanted 2 PG’s on the floor at all times but often Bledsoe would sit with Goran and IT & Green would be playing the guard spots. Those 2 together set a bad precedent for ball movement as they’re basically the same type of score first players who rarely pass. Whenever IT played with either Bledsoe or Dragic though he was the primary PG on the floor. I’m not sure if it was due to his size, style, or what but that didn’t help keep the other guards happy and it also caused other bench players like Marcus to throw up bad shots and play ISO ball because he knew if he was out there with Green and Thomas he’d rarely get passed to, same goes for the other 2nd unit players. Plumlee lost his starting spot to Len but Hornacek didn’t even use Plumlee enough to keep him content being a backup. I know reports came out that he requested a trade prior to the 1st of the year but he obviously didn’t have the pull or talent like Goran so there wasn’t much traction there. After the deadline with the new roster the lineup has been odd too, with guys on 10 day deals playing more than Goodwin, Warren and/or Bullock. It’s not like Curry, Price, or the guy they have now will be with the team next year, same goes for Thornton who has received too many minutes since coming over from Boston. He’s making about 9.5 million this year but it’s expiring and he shouldn’t be brought back even at the minimum. There are too many young players who should be seeing those minutes and he sucks anyways. Hornacek did a good job of managing everyones time last season for the most part but it seems he’s lost it this year completely. Hopefully the team gets more balanced in the offseason and the team has a fairly consistent rotation next year, with both Warren & Goodwin being in the rotation. They’ve earned their spots with their play when given the time and should only be better after another offseason and training camp.

Player rotation has been a sore spot all season. The Suns need to be playing their younger players. Just when Goodwin starts to blossom, he gets benched for most any mistake. Warren should have been playing more all along.

Warren and Goodwin have both displayed they deserve consistent minutes since the All Star break roster shake-up. Bullock hasn’t gotten much time at all since he was acquired which really makes me wonder why even acquire him in the first place. It’s not like the team needed more wing players. He saw more time in LA on a legit contender. Whenever Goodwin or Warren string together a few good games with decent minutes they end up playing really limited minutes the next game for seemingly no reason or they don't play at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if Warren doesn’t see any minutes in tonights game since he’s strung 3 good games together, averaging 26.4 minutes, 16 point on 71% shooting, 3.7 boards, 1 steal, and 1 block a night. He had a DNP just 4 days ago though after playing 9 games in a row with averages of 17.1 minutes, 7.3 points on 63% shooting, and 2.7 rebounds. He’s not a liability on defense either and he’s probably the best player on the team at moving without the ball. He has the talent to be a 1st or 2nd team Rookie this year but he’s only played in 34 games due to D-League assignments and DNP’s. Goodwin is also a lot better than last season and is looking good for the most part but he’s getting his minutes messed with just as much. He’ll play solid for a few games averaging close to 20 minutes and then he’ll get benched for the whole game or see 2-3 minutes out of nowhere, like against OKC to start the 4th when the game was tied and that’s it.

We agree about playing the youngsters. I think getting Bullock for Randolph was about acquiring an asset that might have upside. It was a good move based on potential.
 

slinslin

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Is Hornacek going to be fired?

Is it Hornacek who wants to play with 2 point guards? I mean I understand the concept. Why would you want to have 2 guards of which only one is a playmaker and the other is just a shooter and defender? If you had the choice why would you not want both of your guards to be able to make plays and pass.

Problem is the Suns are forcing this concept with guards that are not big enough and not good enough shooters or in general off-the ball players.

So my problems with Hornacek:
- his system if there even is any
- criticism about lack of leadership or refined roles does not come from nowhere
- locker room issues
- his rotations
- integrating young players

I am willing to accept that the dual PG stuff is maybe just down to McDonnough considering how Boston is doing pretty much the same thing with Bradley, Smart and Thomas.
 

Hoop Head

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From what I found Hornacek signed a 3 year deal initially with an option for a 4th year. So with 2 years remaining I doubt he gets fired this offseason. I think they will try and balance the roster in the offseason some and depending on how next year plays out will determine his future. I had trouble hunting down terms of his deal but I found a site that appears to have info on all coaches. Given the rebuild and expectations the contract length doesn't sound unreasonable. The team is a victim of their early success last year and has been a mess this year. I think as much as McD is blamed Hornacek deserves equal blame for his inconsistencies with rotations all year long, which led to Dragic publicly bashing the organization as well as the inconsistent use of Goodwin, Warren, and Bullock regardless of how well they played the night before or stretch of games they'll get benched for seemingly no reason.

Here's a link to coach contract info.
http://www.otherleague.com/contracts/nba-head-coach-contracts-salaries/

Here is another
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer...uns-closing-in-on-jeff-hornacek-as-head-coach
 

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A.Goodwin
Midway through the season, Goodwin voiced his frustration over the lack of opportunity he was receiving at the NBA level. The Suns' roster dynamic changed in late-February at the trade deadline when they shipped off guards Goran Dragic, Isaiah Thomas and Tyler Ennis in separate deals, and that has meant a little more playing time for the former Kentucky star.

Since the trade deadline, he's appeared in 21 of Phoenix's 22 games and has averaged 14.3 minutes per contest.

Goodwin also vented on the lack of defined responsibilities for many of the players this season.

"I also think we don't do a good job of letting guys know what exactly their role is," he said. "I feel like this year a lot of guys felt like their only role is just to come in and score.

"Winning teams, you have guys that do that, you have guys that defend, you have guys that know they're rebounders, you have guys who facilitate and make others better. I don't think we really have that. We pass the ball, but I think that more so a lot of guys think that the only thing they're out there to do is score, and that's been a big problem with us."
http://arizonasports.com/41/1823283/Phoenix-Suns-Archie-Goodwin-sounds-off-on-makeup-of-teams-roster

Coach Hornacek
Head coach Jeff Hornacek, the man responsible for creating roles for players, didn't seem to pleased about the second-year player's comments.

"It's typical," Hornacek told Doug and Wolf Tuesday morning on Arizona Sports 98.7 FM. "They always pull out 'what's my role?'

"Well, your role is to play basketball. It's to play defense, it's to pass the ball, it's to run the offense and not break things off."

The second-year head coach did admit that Goodwin's comments weren't totally misguided.

"He's got a little bit of a point. I think most of our guys have a scoring mentality and we need more guys to have a passing mentality."
Hornacek went on to say that he understands the nature of Goodwin's comments about defined roles.

"Some guys pull that out when they're not getting the minutes they think they should be getting," he said. "So you hear a lot of that too. Sometimes it's tough on bench guys. They'll say 'what's my role.' I don't know.

"Some nights, you're playing well and you're going to play 15 to 20 minutes. Other nights, you're hurting us and you're going to play five minutes."
http://arizonasports.com/41/1823294/Phoenix-Suns-head-coach-Jeff-Hornacek-Your-role-is-to-play-basketball
 
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sunsfan88

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Archie is right, no player on this team has a defined role except for maybe Len (defend and rebound).

Like every player on this team thinks their Kobe/MJ.

Hornacek needs to grow a pair and tell these guys their primary responsibilities.

Based on watching the games and hearing the comments from players and coaches, I get the feeling that all Hornacek instructs his players to do is "Run, run, run".
 

Mainstreet

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Is Hornacek going to be fired?

Is it Hornacek who wants to play with 2 point guards? I mean I understand the concept. Why would you want to have 2 guards of which only one is a playmaker and the other is just a shooter and defender? If you had the choice why would you not want both of your guards to be able to make plays and pass.

Problem is the Suns are forcing this concept with guards that are not big enough and not good enough shooters or in general off-the ball players.

So my problems with Hornacek:
- his system if there even is any
- criticism about lack of leadership or refined roles does not come from nowhere
- locker room issues
- his rotations
- integrating young players

I am willing to accept that the dual PG stuff is maybe just down to McDonnough considering how Boston is doing pretty much the same thing with Bradley, Smart and Thomas.

I think the answer is yes. IMO, Hornacek will be fired after the season or after being given a brief look next season with a more balanced roster. You touched on the reasons why he should be fired.
 

BC867

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I think the answer is yes. IMO, Hornacek will be fired after the season or after being given a brief look next season with a more balanced roster. You touched on the reasons why he should be fired.
And the icing on the cake is Jeff constantly going to the Press complaining about what his players should be doing, but aren't.

He is a nice guy but, as a Head Coach, awfully naïve, announcing his failures as the guy in charge.

Perhaps Utah will take him back as a career Assistant Coach.
 

elindholm

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Before casting Hornacek out, I hope the organization takes a serious look at the question of what they think a new coach would do differently. My perspective is that the problems with this franchise and its roster dwarf the consideration of who the coach is. Their credibility is already bad enough; fire a coach for no good reason, and it gets even worse.
 

Phrazbit

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I doubt he is even on the hot seat.

The team's record the past 2 seasons is about as good as anyone could hope for given the roster situation. What does concern me is the obvious leadership void, but IMO its not enough to say he should be fired.
 

Joe Mama

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I can't believe anybody thinks this is even a remote possibility this summer.
 

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Before casting Hornacek out, I hope the organization takes a serious look at the question of what they think a new coach would do differently. My perspective is that the problems with this franchise and its roster dwarf the consideration of who the coach is. Their credibility is already bad enough; fire a coach for no good reason, and it gets even worse.

Agree 100%
I'm not ready to look at this mess and eject the HC and plug in the next guy because i don't believe that he's necessarily the problem. These issues were here before Jeff got here. It's starts at the top and filters down. I seriously doubt that when Jeff was hired the Suns organization then said to him "Ok Jeff, it's your show...we're going to play Hornacek basketball. Put your stamp on this team."

BS. The stamp on this team is purely dysfunctional Suns basketball, and it doesn't work.

Former GM Steve Kerr knew it. Tried to change it, met with resistance and left with his hands tied. Now look at his situation in the Bay area. When was the last time anyone associated the Golden St Warriors with the term good defensive team?

I'm ranting and rambling now. Point is, we don't know if Hornacek can coach because the situation and front office is doing it wrong.
 

Mainstreet

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I can't believe anybody thinks this is even a remote possibility this summer.

Only the Suns FO knows the answer.

However, if Hornacek could not handle some problem players at the trade deadline and he is again having some unhappy players, then it begs the question, do the Suns want to move forward with Hornacek as the head coach? The Suns can't keep shuffling players.
 

Mainstreet

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Agree 100%
I'm not ready to look at this mess and eject the HC and plug in the next guy because i don't believe that he's necessarily the problem. These issues were here before Jeff got here. It's starts at the top and filters down. I seriously doubt that when Jeff was hired the Suns organization then said to him "Ok Jeff, it's your show...we're going to play Hornacek basketball. Put your stamp on this team."

BS. The stamp on this team is purely dysfunctional Suns basketball, and it doesn't work.

Former GM Steve Kerr knew it. Tried to change it, met with resistance and left with his hands tied. Now look at his situation in the Bay area. When was the last time anyone associated the Golden St Warriors with the term good defensive team?

I'm ranting and rambling now. Point is, we don't know if Hornacek can coach because the situation and front office is doing it wrong.

Kerr is now a Head Coach and not a GM. However, I think you bring forth an interesting thought. Maybe Kerr took what he learned from SSOL and then added defense. Only Sarver, Babby, McDonough and Hornacek know if the problem rests the with the HC or bad moves by McDonough.
 

mojorizen7

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Kerr is now a Head Coach and not a GM. However, I think you bring forth an interesting thought. Maybe Kerr took what he learned from SSOL and then added defense. Only Sarver, Babby, McDonough and Hornacek know if the problem rests the with the HC or bad moves by McDonough.
This is my thought as well. I don't believe in Sarver and his basketball people. Hornacek and McD on the other hand...hard to say at this point. They both may be strapped to the back of this "vision" of perpetual mediocrity as long as it sells tickets.

Time will tell.
 

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