I don’t get the hate

Krangodnzr

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Bc he really can’t say anything other than that right after drafted the guy. Are you expecting him to say “we explored trade down opportunities but no one wanted to, so we were excited to draft Collins!” That’s essentially saying “trading down was our first desire and then we settled for Collins when we couldn’t.” I’m not saying that happened, I’m saying you can’t take keims words at face value that it didn’t.

Yeah I read the comment from @Stout and thought the same thing.

It would be incredibly stupid and disrespectful to Zaven Collins to say that.

When I looked at players available and team needs at #16, there wasn't really a player that I felt had tremendous value and filled a big need. The Cardinals were in no man's land. If I felt that way, do you think an NFL team is looking to trade up? Hell no.

Keim's explanation for drafting Collins makes a ton of sense. Hicks was awful last year. Just like Gambo shared yesterday, in the last Niners game, both starting ILBs had like a 30 and high 20 something rating by PFF in those games. They both sucked royally and we're big reasons the Cardinals lost that game.

Collins and Simmons can be the Cardinal's version of Willis and Bowman, the Cardinal's version of Wagner and KJ Wright, the Cardinal's version of Kuechly and Davis. As much as the advanced analysis fan boys say LB isn't a premium position, many really good defenses are built around great LBs.
 
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We got a HOF Talent folks. Trust me. We need a home grown leader in the middle of this defense. He becomes our Bobby Wagner. He can thump inside and Cover like Dansby or Urlacher. You have 2 trees to cover TEs and Defense against the run (Which Simmons got much better at by season end) And a guy that can read/Spy routes underneath. Can Blitz inside and from the outside somewhat as well as simmons. Both guys don't have to come off the field. Collins could shed another 10lbs and be even more explosive at 250-255 and still be stout. He's not an elite tackler but or angel taker but he's got everything we will need in a leader and football player. This is a great pick.

Now as for Rondale... I'm torn on it. Love the raw talent, gamebreaker but idk if kliff will get the ball to him properly. everything can't be a bubble screen. Eventually you've gotta win contested catches and get vertical. I know Rondale can jump and is explosive but IDK about his ball skills esp on vertical routes.
 

PACardsFan

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We got a HOF Talent folks. Trust me. We need a home grown leader in the middle of this defense. He becomes our Bobby Wagner. He can thump inside and Cover like Dansby or Urlacher. You have 2 trees to cover TEs and Defense against the run (Which Simmons got much better at by season end) And a guy that can read/Spy routes underneath. Can Blitz inside and from the outside somewhat as well as simmons. Both guys don't have to come off the field. Collins could shed another 10lbs and be even more explosive at 250-255 and still be stout. He's not an elite tackler but or angel taker but he's got everything we will need in a leader and football player. This is a great pick.

Now as for Rondale... I'm torn on it. Love the raw talent, gamebreaker but idk if kliff will get the ball to him properly. everything can't be a bubble screen. Eventually you've gotta win contested catches and get vertical. I know Rondale can jump and is explosive but IDK about his ball skills esp on vertical routes.
Agree with your 1st paragraph, not so much with your 2nd. Rondale fits KK's system like a glove. The Cardinals targeted Moore from day 1. They may have been fooled by Isabella, but they learned in the process. Barring injuries, if KK can't figure out how to use this kid, then yes, KK will be an OC somewhere next year at this time.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah I read the comment from @Stout and thought the same thing.

It would be incredibly stupid and disrespectful to Zaven Collins to say that.

When I looked at players available and team needs at #16, there wasn't really a player that I felt had tremendous value and filled a big need. The Cardinals were in no man's land. If I felt that way, do you think an NFL team is looking to trade up? Hell no.

Keim's explanation for drafting Collins makes a ton of sense. Hicks was awful last year. Just like Gambo shared yesterday, in the last Niners game, both starting ILBs had like a 30 and high 20 something rating by PFF in those games. They both sucked royally and we're big reasons the Cardinals lost that game.

Collins and Simmons can be the Cardinal's version of Willis and Bowman, the Cardinal's version of Wagner and KJ Wright, the Cardinal's version of Kuechly and Davis. As much as the advanced analysis fan boys say LB isn't a premium position, many really good defenses are built around great LBs.
I agree with all of this. Particularly no man’s land. I’ve been saying it for a couple months - there were 13 high end prospects and then the next 30-35 players were somewhat eye of the beholder imo. Once Mac was gone there were no more dance partners bc the only value in moving up was broadening choice, not optimizing talent, imo.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Agree with your 1st paragraph, not so much with your 2nd. Rondale fits KK's system like a glove. The Cardinals targeted Moore from day 1. They may have been fooled by Isabella, but they learned in the process. Barring injuries, if KK can't figure out how to use this kid, then yes, KK will be an OC somewhere next year at this time.
Agree with this. KK’s affinity doe throwing behind the line of scrimmage is disaster for a Fitz and likely for an AJ. But it’s custom tailored for Moore.
 
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Agree with your 1st paragraph, not so much with your 2nd. Rondale fits KK's system like a glove. The Cardinals targeted Moore from day 1. They may have been fooled by Isabella, but they learned in the process. Barring injuries, if KK can't figure out how to use this kid, then yes, KK will be an OC somewhere next year at this time.

Im not super into Kliff's adjusting. He does have a player that fits that but he already had that in Andy and wouldn't use him. He would rather have Larry and D Hop run the Screen with Andy or Kirk blocking. It should have been the other way around Every Single Time.... Andy has upside still. That said I hope Moore is Steve Smith 2.0. He's definitely strong enough and explosive as-go-you-know-the-thing.
 
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Its on Kliff. Because based on the precedent thus far. Moore better learn how to block. Because Kliff wants the big WRs to run the screens and the little ones like Kirk and Isabella to block... SMH
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Im not super into Kliff's adjusting. He does have a player that fits that but he already had that in Andy and wouldn't use him. He would rather have Larry and D Hop run the Screen with Andy or Kirk blocking. It should have been the other way around Every Single Time.... Andy has upside still. That said I hope Moore is Steve Smith 2.0. He's definitely strong enough and explosive as-go-you-know-the-thing.
Isabella would’ve been terrible on those routes. He doesn’t have short area suddenness.
 
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He doesn't have much going for him

He had better show something this year or he's gone

Isabella would’ve been terrible on those routes. He doesn’t have short area suddenness.

Still a better choice than fitz and D Hop. I saw some positive things from andy at times. And I still remember what he did to Detroit this year and The Niners as a rookie. We just never went back. He gets open, we just never find him. He doesn't have the suddenness of Moore maybe but he was still the most explosive player prior to that. Kliff just never used him. I'm not saying Andy is without fault. But I definitely can see him being let go and flourishing somewhere else. He's not a bad WR. And while I likes Keesean. I'd still take Andy when utilized properly.
 

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Still a better choice than fitz and D Hop. I saw some positive things from andy at times. And I still remember what he did to Detroit this year and The Niners as a rookie. We just never went back. He gets open, we just never find him. He doesn't have the suddenness of Moore maybe but he was still the most explosive player prior to that. Kliff just never used him. I'm not saying Andy is without fault. But I definitely can see him being let go and flourishing somewhere else. He's not a bad WR. And while I likes Keesean. I'd still take Andy when utilized properly.
?
 
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As much as we don't like Isabella this isn't wrong about Kliff

That is all I'm saying. It is the Cardinal way. We have talented players that we don't use. They go elsewhere and shine. Because they go to place that let them play their football. Let Andy go to NE and suddenly the short area quickness narrative goes out the window. He'll be the Next Julian Edelman. We've seen the flash. I've seen him open numerous times and either Kyler was late with the ball or under throwing. We saw it in the pre season from Andy his first year. He can get over the top. Throw the bleepin ball to him.

I suspect we will be saying the same about Moore eventually based on precedent.
 

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