Humphries tore his ACL

[Harry]

It’s accurate to say the gap between LT & RT has narrowed as rushers are now moved around. Nonetheless the LT still typically has the QB’s blind side, so for right handed QBs the best tackle still goes on the left. This injury is sad for the player and the team. It’s entirely possible he was going to be traded. He’s unlikely to have value now other than cap reduction. The Cards are forced to address the tackle position. It’s not out of the question to move Johnson to LT. I rated his performance better than most on the board did. There are analysts who think he’ll be better on the left side. This is a deep tackle pool. They could take one with the Texas pocket or gamble one falls to their round 2 pick. The latter would be prospects like Jordan Morgan, Tyler Guyton or Taliese Fuaga.

 

[kerouac9]

I think if the Cards want an immediate starter at left tackle, they either have to bring in a veteran free agent or use their top pick on one.

If the Cards want to use that top pick elsewhere, they likely shift PJJ to the left and use either their second or third picks on a RT to compete with Beachum, Daley, and perhaps a Froholdt-level free agent.

 

[slanidrac16]

I think if the Cards want an immediate starter at left tackle, they either have to bring in a veteran free agent or use their top pick on one.

If the Cards want to use that top pick elsewhere, they likely shift PJJ to the left and use either their second or third picks on a RT to compete with Beachum, Daley, and perhaps a Froholdt-level free agent.

This makes perfect sense. I hope it’s the way we go.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Drafting permanent RTs in the top 10 is so Cardinals.

Last year was the first time in their history doing so... and I bet he would have been LT if we didn't already have DJ.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It's a matter of the player sometimes, not the position. If, in the day, we had drafted Patrick Willis in the top 10, I would have been pleased as punch. Simmons...my my, was I and others wrong on him! But, by and large, you are correct about drafting ILBers high.

Raises my hand and waves it for the teacher to see...

 

[DVontel]

I just have a dream of having potentially two dominant OTs where in a era of freakishly athletic & dominant pass-rushers like Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Micah Parsons, TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Montez Sweat, Jaelen Phillips, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick, Rashan Gary, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Aidan Hutchinson, & the list goes on & on, etc, won’t be able to slide to the other side of the line & take advantage of the much weaker OT. Keeping them at bay on both sides. Or even containing teams with good pass-rushing duos. Especially when playoff football comes around.

 

[slanidrac16]

Raises my hand and waves it for the teacher to see...

I thought the football god we’re shining on us when Simmons slipped to us.
Lesson learned? Don’t draft a player that doesn’t play a define position.

 

[Stout]

Ha. Old like believing that there is a huge difference between RT and LT.

Ha, I thought we were on a different thread when I replied

 

[Stout]

Last year was the first time in their history doing so... and I bet he would have been LT if we didn't already have DJ.

He's not the permanent RT yet, though. Plenty of time to move him to the left.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I thought the football god we’re shining on us when Simmons slipped to us.
Lesson learned? Don’t draft a player that doesn’t play a define position.

The Cards have had some success doing this with Reddick, Buchannon etc. It still probably isn't the best way to go though.

 

[football karma]

I just have a dream of having potentially two dominant OTs where in a era of freakishly athletic & dominant pass-rushers like Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Micah Parsons, TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Montez Sweat, Jaelen Phillips, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick, Rashan Gary, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Aidan Hutchinson, & the list goes on & on, etc, won’t be able to slide to the other side of the line & take advantage of the much weaker OT. Keeping them at bay on both sides. Or even containing teams with good pass-rushing duos. Especially when playoff football comes around.

ill go one step farther

Kyler is at his best when the Cards force teams out of a zone and into man coverages --

and that usually comes when they can't generate pressure with 4 and have to start sending additional bodies

 

[slanidrac16]

I just have a dream of having potentially two dominant OTs where in a era of freakishly athletic & dominant pass-rushers like Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Micah Parsons, TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Montez Sweat, Jaelen Phillips, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick, Rashan Gary, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Aidan Hutchinson, & the list goes on & on, etc, won’t be able to slide to the other side of the line & take advantage of the much weaker OT. Keeping them at bay on both sides. Or even containing teams with good pass-rushing duos. Especially when playoff football comes around.

I can’t argue this. It comes down to at what price? The 4th pick in the draft? 30m free agent?
I do have confidence in the ability of this staff to recognize o-line talent. The picked up guys and got them to play pretty well. We will see.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If the Cards want to use that top pick elsewhere, they likely shift PJJ to the left and use either their second or third picks on a RT to compete with Beachum, Daley, and perhaps a Froholdt-level free agent.

That's how I would do it.

 

[kerouac9]

He's not the permanent RT yet, though. Plenty of time to move him to the left.

I don't think there's "plenty of time." It's easy to underestimate the amount of specialization and direction-specific reps that go into being a pro athlete at the highest levels. After this season -- maybe next -- it will be too late for him to be able to flop to the other side and be a high-level player. The amount of reps and muscle memory at that point becomes counter-productive to overcome.

The Cards have had some success doing this with Reddick, Buchannon etc. It still probably isn't the best way to go though.

Describing Haason Reddick and Deone Bucannon as success stories is certainly a thing you're doing here.

 

[oaken1]

We were in the same boat. Though I think about every dominant run game and I think about their dominant lines and I dream about being able to impose our will on other teams offensively. That starts with the oline. We’ve never built a dominant one. I’d like to try it on for size.

I have this memory...it may be the Mandela affect because I cant find a clip anywhere,.... of the HOGS lining up in the super bowl,...and John Riggins surveying the defense...then pointing to the hole he was about to run through...calling his shot much like Babe Ruth...and even knowing right where he was going the defense was helpless to stop him.
would be nice to have a line like that for a decade or so

 

[TheCardFan]

I don't think there's "plenty of time." It's easy to underestimate the amount of specialization and direction-specific reps that go into being a pro athlete at the highest levels. After this season -- maybe next -- it will be too late for him to be able to flop to the other side and be a high-level player. The amount of reps and muscle memory at that point becomes counter-productive to overcome.

See Tristan Wirfs - 3 full seasons at RT before switching to the left in 2023.
See Lane Johnson - 3 seasons as LT before switching to right for 7 years.
See Orlando Brown - don't remember but played a few years at RT before moving to the left.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Describing Haason Reddick and Deone Bucannon as success stories is certainly a thing you're doing here.

Haason was a success story. They drafted a man with two positions. The Cards chose the wrong one for most of his career.

When they moved him to the right, he has flourished ever since.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Reddick failed for a completely different reason than Bucannon and Simmons, both of who aren't good enough for any NFL starting position.

 

[kerouac9]

See Tristan Wirfs - 3 full seasons at RT before switching to the left in 2023.
See Lane Johnson - 3 seasons as LT before switching to right for 7 years.
See Orlando Brown - don't remember but played a few years at RT before moving to the left.

We'll see with Wirfs.

Jason Peters was the Eagles LT Johnson's rookie season.

Orlando Brown did play two seasons at RT with the Ravens and demanded a trade to get an LT contract (IIRC). I believe he plays RT for the Bengals now across from Jonah Williams.

I don't see how pointing to outliers really buttresses the point. I'm not saying it's impossible, but PJJ hasn't been a pro bowl-caliber player at RT (Wirfs was an All-Pro RT as a rookie). Every year we wait will likely make the transition harder.

 

[daves]

I wonder whether the Cardinals would put Johnson at LT and Beachum at RT vs. the Seahawks this week? Would that give any insight into Johnson's future viability as an NFL LT, or would it be counter-productive without Johnson having practiced at LT for an entire off-season and training camp?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The discussion isn't "played" RT, it's drafted to be a permanent RT. And there is certainly a big enough difference, or you wouldn't need to be much more athletic and mobile to play LT than RT.

Yeah I think it’s kinda disingenuous for anyone to claim that any tackle was drafted in the top 10 of the draft to play right tackle. As much as both tackle spots are important the right will likely never be as valuable as the left bc of the blindside. Unless we see a proliferation of lefty quarterbacks that will remain the case.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I just have a dream of having potentially two dominant OTs where in a era of freakishly athletic & dominant pass-rushers like Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Micah Parsons, TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Montez Sweat, Jaelen Phillips, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick, Rashan Gary, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Aidan Hutchinson, & the list goes on & on, etc, won’t be able to slide to the other side of the line & take advantage of the much weaker OT. Keeping them at bay on both sides. Or even containing teams with good pass-rushing duos. Especially when playoff football comes around.

This is where I reside. I would be ecstatic if we drafted one of the stud tackles and signed a GOOD left guard and had an absolutely dominant line. One where kyler had all day to preuse the field. One where we run the ball like the browns of recent years with Chubb/hunt. With a second first rounder and four more picks in rounds 2 and 3 we should hit on a receiver and a defender.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

This is where I reside. I would be ecstatic if we drafted one of the stud tackles and signed a GOOD left guard and had an absolutely dominant line. One where kyler had all day to preuse the field. One where we run the ball like the browns of recent years with Chubb/hunt. With a second first rounder and four more picks in rounds 2 and 3 we should hit on a receiver and a defender.

Good line makes everyone look better. QB has more time, RB have better holes, WR get more time to try and beat a DB...I'd love for a Cards FO pay more than lip service to dominant lines! (on both sides of the ball)

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Would that give any insight into Johnson's future viability as an NFL LT, or would it be counter-productive without Johnson having practiced at LT for an entire off-season and training camp?

I see almost 0 chance of that happening barring another injury to Beachum IMO.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think if the Cards want an immediate starter at left tackle, they either have to bring in a veteran free agent or use their top pick on one.

If the Cards want to use that top pick elsewhere, they likely shift PJJ to the left and use either their second or third picks on a RT to compete with Beachum, Daley, and perhaps a Froholdt-level free agent.

Agreed. More below.

I just have a dream of having potentially two dominant OTs where in a era of freakishly athletic & dominant pass-rushers like Myles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Micah Parsons, TJ Watt, Nick Bosa, Montez Sweat, Jaelen Phillips, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick, Rashan Gary, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Aidan Hutchinson, & the list goes on & on, etc, won’t be able to slide to the other side of the line & take advantage of the much weaker OT. Keeping them at bay on both sides. Or even containing teams with good pass-rushing duos. Especially when playoff football comes around.

100%

I'm on board with drafting MHJ over both tackles if he is there for our pick but these two tackles will be plug and play at the LT spot right away.

Both are solid high-end tackle prospects and in this draft, so bereft of top-end pass rushing talent a tackle makes the most sense after MHJ.

Fashanu is the #1 IMO. His hands and frame are just stronger IMO. Tree trunk strong with insane athleticism at his size. He hasn't allowed a sack in his college career and he played against some solid pass rushers in his time. He went back to school to earn his masters and is possibly the top tackle talent since Peneii Sewell.

Alt isn't far behind. Much lighter on the strength side, Alt is a premium technician who also went up against a ton of good pass rushers at ND. He has allowed one sack in his college career and is a bit taller than Fashanu. 6'8" vs. 6'6".

Both have great feet, movement, and bend but Fashanu is just so darn strong on contact. His punch is a great weapon and Alt seems to lack that. I think both will be good initially but Fashanu may have a ceiling much higher.

So my brain is telling me to stay at 3, 4, or whatever and draft one of those three. MHJ, Olu, or Alt in that order. Don't trade back or even think about trading back. then with the Texans pick, use that to move back up or not. That's the pick to play with, not this one.

I think you keep PJJ at RT and keep the train moving on his development. Do not spoil the rhythm at this point unless you are forced to. That's my take.

And the final piece to this puzzle is that Kyler goes down very easy on contact. It makes a ton of sense to have two bad-ass tackles to block the outside IMO.