Hopkins Wants Out?

[mjb21aztd]

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Once a cards fan you will always suffer with all us cards fans ugh lol

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

And for the record in 2020 we were 6th in rushing and 2021 14th WITH Kliff. Both of those standings would equate to "effective".

You take Kyler out of those numbers?

 

[Chopper0080]

You take Kyler out of those numbers?

Why would I? Would I take Lamar or Hurts or Allen out of those team's numbers?

 

[Chopper0080]

If you take away Kyler's rushing, he is an even worse QB in terms of his peers. His rushing ability is one of the few things that makes him special.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Why would I? Would I take Lamar or Hurts or Allen out of those team's numbers?

Yes - you should.

If you take away Kyler's rushing, he is an even worse QB in terms of his peers. His rushing ability is one of the few things that makes him special.

Nobody is saying not to run. Saying we haven’t seen him in an effective play action game

 

[Chopper0080]

Again, this is just so people can visualize what they are saying.

We want Kyler to be the QB of an offense that runs more, reduces his pass attempts per game to around 30, and reduces his rushing so he can stay healthy.

2023 - 16.4 mil cap hit. 26 years old.
2024 - 51.8 mil cap hit. 27 years old.
2025 - 45.6 mil cap hit. 28 years old.
2026 - 55.5 mil cap hit. 29 years old.

People are talking about Hopkins being 30 like Kyler has 10 more years in his career. That is the window the Cardinals have to be successful or they are firing another GM/HC and Kyler is done.

and this doesn't account for learning a new system, mis-steps along the way in the draft and FA, injuries or anything else.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes - you should.

Nobody is saying not to run. Saying we haven’t seen him in an effective play action game

Then those teams are all horrible rushing teams as well, just like the Cardinals.

You can probably fact check me on this one as the Ravens might be a decent rushing team without Lamar.

 

[Zalixar]

Trade Hopkins for a 1st if you can, maybe a second and change. Otherwise just hang onto him.

Would like to keep him, but next year is a dud and beyond that he will be older and his production may drop enough where his value is even less. He won't be here for another contract anyway.

Have to rebuild. We missed our window. Kyler isn't getting traded. We will keep Brown, hopefully for a modest contract.

 

[Chopper0080]

Trade Hopkins for a 1st if you can, maybe a second and change. Otherwise just hang onto him.

Would like to keep him, but next year is a dud and beyond that he will be older and his production may drop enough where his value is even less. He won't be here for another contract anyway.

Have to rebuild. We missed our window.

Then you might as well deal Kyler as well. If you are saying his age 26 year is a dud then you are in full rebuild with a 27, 28, and 29 year old QB who struggles as a pocket passer, doesn't put in extra work, and costs you an average of 52 mil per season.

Imagine a rebuild where 20% of your cap is tied into a player whose impact you are trying to limit.

 

[Zalixar]

Then you might as well deal Kyler as well. If you are saying his age 26 year is a dud then you are in full rebuild with a 27, 28, and 29 year old QB who struggles as a pocket passer, doesn't put in extra work, and costs you an average of 52 mil per season.

Imagine a rebuild where 20% of your cap is tied into a player whose impact you are trying to limit.

I added an edit.

No one's trading for Kyler, not for much anyway. We are stuck with him.

Salary cap going up will make his numbers not so bad, especially when the new round of QB contracts spring up on even mediocre QB's.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Lol. He's still a top 10 WR.

Lol .... you really couldn't find 10 WR on other teams you would rather have? Come on now!

 

[Totally_Red]

I would certainly listen to offers for DHop but Houston got a high #2 & David Johnson in Hop's prime. I don't think you get value for him. If Kliff goes to NE as O.C. maybe they cough up a second; otherwise nothing more than a third IMO.

 

[BritCard]

Again, this is just so people can visualize what they are saying.

We want Kyler to be the QB of an offense that runs more, reduces his pass attempts per game to around 30, and reduces his rushing so he can stay healthy.

2023 - 16.4 mil cap hit. 26 years old.
2024 - 51.8 mil cap hit. 27 years old.
2025 - 45.6 mil cap hit. 28 years old.
2026 - 55.5 mil cap hit. 29 years old.

People are talking about Hopkins being 30 like Kyler has 10 more years in his career. That is the window the Cardinals have to be successful or they are firing another GM/HC and Kyler is done.

and this doesn't account for learning a new system, mis-steps along the way in the draft and FA, injuries or anything else.

The Kyler paradox. People want to exclude him from the running game but count all the RZ rushing TDs he takes away from running backs.

If Kyler doesn't run he's just short Kirk Cousins being paid like Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Chopper0080]

I added an edit.

No one's trading for Kyler, not for much anyway. We are stuck with him.

Salary cap going up will make his numbers not so bad, especially when the new round of QB contracts spring up on even mediocre QB's.

If you have good coach Kyler is fine. You have to remember that a team trading for Kyler doesn’t take on his paid bonus so that team is getting him at a more reasonable cap #.

 

[BritCard]

This is a conundrum.

On one hand Kyler has shown he is massively reliant of a top tier contested catch WR. His stats with and without Hopkins are chalk and cheese.

On the flip side now is the time to trade him. We should have done the same with Chandler but waited too long. Plus when he was out Brown replaced a lot of his production.

With Kyler missing a chunk of next year we may as well trade him now.

 

[Zalixar]

If you have good coach Kyler is fine. You have to remember that a team trading for Kyler doesn’t take on his paid bonus so that team is getting him at a more reasonable cap #.

Speculation, but I am more than willing to give him another go with a competent coach/GM.

Sure, but with his late season collapses, injury history and ACL, you think we get fair value for him? I doubt it.

Either way, Hopkins has been awesome but we need to get young and look to the future. He's like the only player that would fetch something decent.

 

[Jetstream Green]

As opposed to the helpless QB that couldn't even throw the ball away against the Rams? KM was historically bad in that game, and you well know it. You just don't want to remember just how hellish he was in that game lol

True, they were both horrible, Kyler it seems even had a worse rating and you're damn right I remember that game like all the other Cardinal moments which makes me the delightful Cardinal fan I am. My point is that Lindley never showed once he was capable of anything when playing, while Kyler has, meaning Lindley gave his typical crap performance and you had absolutely no hope that anything was going to change. I will say Kyler's performance was the most frustrating performance I ever experienced from a Cardinal QB, while Lindley was horrible, always horrible, and no different when we hung with the crap kicker for two games this year even though we knew he was capable of nothing

 

[Stout]

The defense played more then well enough to win that Carolina game. The entire team and coaching staff never should’ve gotten on the plane to LA last year. Even a below average QB performance likely would’ve beaten Carolina in ‘15.

People rightly mock the Kyler pick 6 but seemingly forget AJ Green’s blatant drop on a 25 yard gain the play before and Kirk inexplicably letting the punt drop at the 11 and allowing it roll to the 1 the play before that. Not to mention the swiss cheese defense and horrid o-line play. Entire team and staff was an abomination in last years game, in Carolina we basically got held back by a guy best served in a coed flag football league (despite his “high IQ”)

So you're rolling with Palmer being worse in that playoff game than Kyler was in his? Bunk. Regardless of the rest of the team in either situation, Kyler was massively unprepared and was having trouble with the basics. Palmer wasn't good either, but was more a result of forcing the ball and making errors in processing the play in front of him. Kyler wasn't even ready to play.

Basically, Palmer played a bad game, and Kyler barely stepped off the bus.

 

[Zalixar]

So you're rolling with Palmer being worse in that playoff game than Kyler was in his? Bunk. Regardless of the rest of the team in either situation, Kyler was massively unprepared and was having trouble with the basics. Palmer wasn't good either, but was more a result of forcing the ball and making errors in processing the play in front of him. Kyler wasn't even ready to play.

Basically, Palmer played a bad game, and Kyler barely stepped off the bus.

Palmer couldn't throw a ball after the Eagles game. That was painfully clear. Our season ended that day.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I do not want to trade Hopkins or Brown but if the pipe dream of Sean Payton came through, it would not bother me because Payton seems to find a way to replace talent on offense through the draft without having to find that stud early in the draft

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So you're rolling with Palmer being worse in that playoff game than Kyler was in his? Bunk. Regardless of the rest of the team in either situation, Kyler was massively unprepared and was having trouble with the basics. Palmer wasn't good either, but was more a result of forcing the ball and making errors in processing the play in front of him. Kyler wasn't even ready to play.

Basically, Palmer played a bad game, and Kyler barely stepped off the bus.

Talking about Lindley.

‘16 and ‘22 neither team was even remotely ready to play. ‘15 we had a high school quarterback playing.

I’d advise watching that LA game again if I were you. Whole team was totally unprepared and played terribly. Either way not having any more Kyler - Lindley debates. Anyone comparing the two in any way is deranged.

 

[Alan]

Not loving his sudden knee injury.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you're rolling with Palmer being worse in that playoff game than Kyler was in his? Bunk. Regardless of the rest of the team in either situation, Kyler was massively unprepared and was having trouble with the basics. Palmer wasn't good either, but was more a result of forcing the ball and making errors in processing the play in front of him. Kyler wasn't even ready to play.

Basically, Palmer played a bad game, and Kyler barely stepped off the bus.

Even as someone who thought Kyler was Playoff Lindley Bad in his only playoff game (and was terrible from the jump when he was spiking easy passes in the turf or badly throwing an open bomb to Kirk), Palmer wasn’t just bad in the NFC title game. He was an abject disaster as well.

Good times comparing 3 of our measly 5 playoff games we’ve been blessed to watch in the last 12 years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The defense played more then well enough to win that Carolina game. The entire team and coaching staff never should’ve gotten on the plane to LA last year. Even a below average QB performance likely would’ve beaten Carolina in ‘15.

People rightly mock the Kyler pick 6 but seemingly forget AJ Green’s blatant drop on a 25 yard gain the play before and Kirk inexplicably letting the punt drop at the 11 and allowing it roll to the 1 the play before that. Not to mention the swiss cheese defense and horrid o-line play. Entire team and staff was an abomination in last years game, in Carolina we basically got held back by a guy best served in a coed flag football league (despite his “high IQ”)

They were both abominations.

 

[DVontel]

Steve Keim was the GM during all those Lindley/Palmer/Kyler playoff abominations lol the man really is satan