Hopkins' Contract

Zalixar

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have discussed this on other teams boards a lot the past week.
consensus among the almighty fans seems to think Hop will net a 1st and a 3rd on the high end, down to a 2nd and a 5th on the low end. with most thinking somewhere in the area of a 2 and a 3.

anywhere in that range I am fine with letting him go.

Hop wants more guaranteed money... it isnt a coincidence that he starts talking about trades at this time. If traded, he can reasonably expect a new 4 year deal... and that means guaranteed money.
Historically guys with his play style produce longer, catch radius and hands are not dependent on speed and only minimally on vert... personally I think Hop will be a go to guy until he is 34... speculation of course.
But, we would have to give him a new deal to keep him happy...ask any player, its all about the guaranteed money.
what we cant have is a HoF WR busting out the Diva routine and disrupting the entire locker room because he is throwing a tantrum over money.
But Kyler plays so much better with Hop!........
True. Its high time he got over that affliction too.
Kyler wants to be paid and classified like Pat Mahomes... Mahomes lost his go to star WR....and he won an MVP.
Kyler has trust issues and he often passes up open guys because he doesnt trust them... he needs to move past that and start elevating his teammates. IMO he cant make that leap in maturity while his safety net is still on the field.

If it were me..
Trade Hop,...hopefully at least a 2 and a 3..
Sign Allen Lazard... good size, outside playmaker ability, shouldnt cost the farm.
use the picks to fill the trenches....this aint a great draft for WR so only take one if your scouts jump on the table.

use a higher pick in 24 to get a big outside wr, hopefully with a 5th year of control.


I think Mahomes is gunna be more of the exception than the rule, much like Brady.

Besides, he may have lost Tyreek, but let's not forget he still has a top 5 receiving threat and one of the top offensive minds.

We should definitely trade him if we can net more than a 1st round.
 

bankybruce

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Ostarine is not in most preworkouts, absolutely no way. It is a type of steroid called a SARM. If it was in preworkouts people would notice their balls shrinking.

SARMs (such as Ostarine) are basically mild steroids with lesser benefits and lesser side effects. When you take a SARM it will suppress the body's natural testosterone production. A lot of websites were selling it as a "research chemical" a few years back. It was legal to sell as long it the seller wasn't selling it for human consumption. A legal loop hole that I think has been closed.

I had some fun with it in college, it definitely works. I know a bunch of Clemson players got busted for it. I doubt Hop was trying to use it. The rumor is that a lot of regular steroids (testosterone) are very easy to mask/hide from PED tests, while SARMS are impossible to hide. What happens is that steroid manufacturers sell both products and will accidentally contaminate regular testosterone with trace amounts of SARMs such as Ostarine. All it takes is a workspace not being properly cleaned. Hopkins probably got a dirty batch.

You are right, I should not have said most. There are 17 of them listed on usada and several of them use different names like enobosarm, MK-2866, or GTx-024. Other mix it in to thier "proprietary blend" and are trace amounts.

But I stand by my comment that there is still no scientific proof of what it does since it's not approved for human use and is still being look at for long term effects. That is the main reason I couldn't see Hopkins purposely using it, your reason also has validity.

"Because ostarine is still being investigated for use in humans, the side effects have not been fully characterized yet. For recent information on the effects of ostarine, take a look at this 2013 study from the National Center for Biotechnology Information."

 

HairZach

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You are right, I should not have said most. There are 17 of them listed on usada and several of them use different names like enobosarm, MK-2866, or GTx-024. Other mix it in to thier "proprietary blend" and are trace amounts.

But I stand by my comment that there is still no scientific proof of what it does since it's not approved for human use and is still being look at for long term effects. That is the main reason I couldn't see Hopkins purposely using it, your reason also has validity.

"Because ostarine is still being investigated for use in humans, the side effects have not been fully characterized yet. For recent information on the effects of ostarine, take a look at this 2013 study from the National Center for Biotechnology Information."

That is very interesting for preworkouts to have substances that are illegal to sell for human consumption in them. I did not think they would be able to get away with that. I guess I've also heard of some preworkouts containing small amounts of meth. I agree there's no way he was using it on purpose; no one takes trace amounts of this kind substance.
 

bankybruce

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That is very interesting for preworkouts to have substances that are illegal to sell for human consumption in them. I did not think they would be able to get away with that. I guess I've also heard of some preworkouts containing small amounts of meth. I agree there's no way he was using it on purpose; no one takes trace amounts of this kind substance.
Apparently, they put on the label that it should not be consumed by humans. Plus, the FDA doesn't regulate most supplements, so no one is checking what is in them at the government level. I only knew because I read an article a few years ago ago the dangers of not knowing how to read preworkout labels and that you should never use of that doesn't list what's in the "proprietary blend". Most of the ones with banned substances are just trace values anyways. It's so dumb, but some fall for it. Not enough to help you, but enough to get you suspended from the NFL.
 

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I'm not sure how trading our top receiver helps the offense and more importantly Kyler who we hope starts playing like he did prior to the last 18 months.
This team and prior poor FO showed us abundant evidence of what happens when you hold onto aging veterans with trade value--it doesn't end well. Factor in that he's been suspended; factor in his been injured a lot now; factor in his age; factor in how dumb it is giving big money to old players; factor in how bad we're going to be next season regardless if he's on the team or not. It is absolutely a no brainer to trade him now. Because the option isn't to trade him or keep him--the option is to trade him or give him a fat new extension full of more guaranteed money, because we aren't paying him 30 mill this season and he's not going to play without getting that fat new extension.
 

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This team and prior poor FO showed us abundant evidence of what happens when you hold onto aging veterans with trade value--it doesn't end well. Factor in that he's been suspended; factor in his been injured a lot now; factor in his age; factor in how dumb it is giving big money to old players; factor in how bad we're going to be next season regardless if he's on the team or not. It is absolutely a no brainer to trade him now. Because the option isn't to trade him or keep him--the option is to trade him or give him a fat new extension full of more guaranteed money, because we aren't paying him 30 mill this season and he's not going to play without getting that fat new extension.

Anything else I need to factor in? Haha. He does seem miserable here and I don't think throwing cash at him would change that anyway.

You make great points. I just remember how reliant Kyler was on Hopkins, and I'm not sure that is easily replaced. At the end of the day, Kyler needs to be better at reading defenses though.
 

Stout

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Anything else I need to factor in? Haha. He does seem miserable here and I don't think throwing cash at him would change that anyway.

You make great points. I just remember how reliant Kyler was on Hopkins, and I'm not sure that is easily replaced. At the end of the day, Kyler needs to be better at reading defenses though.
Factor in that you make a good point about him not being easily replaced :) Yes, that is the major downside. Unfortunately, we're going to have to do it soon anyway, and starting that process sooner rather than later and not handcuffing ourselves with a bad contract while receiving compensation is, IMO, the way.
 

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This team and prior poor FO showed us abundant evidence of what happens when you hold onto aging veterans with trade value--it doesn't end well. Factor in that he's been suspended; factor in his been injured a lot now; factor in his age; factor in how dumb it is giving big money to old players; factor in how bad we're going to be next season regardless if he's on the team or not. It is absolutely a no brainer to trade him now. Because the option isn't to trade him or keep him--the option is to trade him or give him a fat new extension full of more guaranteed money, because we aren't paying him 30 mill this season and he's not going to play without getting that fat new extension.

Conceivably they could restructure his base salary in 2023 through a bonus and get $9.1m in Cap relief, and guarantee his $14.9m base salary in 2024.
 

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Again, if you can get a first or second-plus for him, you make the trade.

If he’s going to hold out or something without a new deal, you make a trade.

If he’d just prefer a new deal and thinks it’s impossible here, you’re better off keeping him and getting him his 1200 yards or so and trading him in the 2024 offseason when it costs you less dead money.

The Arizona Cardinals are an entertainment product and I’m going to be much less entertained watching an offense that features Hollywood Brown and Trey McBride.
 

bankybruce

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Again, if you can get a first or second-plus for him, you make the trade.

If he’s going to hold out or something without a new deal, you make a trade.

If he’d just prefer a new deal and thinks it’s impossible here, you’re better off keeping him and getting him his 1200 yards or so and trading him in the 2024 offseason when it costs you less dead money.

The Arizona Cardinals are an entertainment product and I’m going to be much less entertained watching an offense that features Hollywood Brown and Trey McBride.
Nailed it!
 

bankybruce

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The quesr is, who would need a #1 WR to put them over the top? I think the Giants could be the perfect landing spot for him, but i don't see them giving up the #26 pick, though.

Would you take the #58th and #129th for him and the #170th. That would give us 7 picks inside 130. The Giants also have a lot of picks in this draft and 5 in the top 100.

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The quesr is, who would need a #1 WR to put them over the top? I think the Giants could be the perfect landing spot for him, but i don't see them giving up the #26 pick, though.

Would you take the #58th and #129th for him and the #170th. That would give us 7 picks inside 130. The Giants also have a lot of picks in this draft and 5 in the top 100.

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FYI - there are only 31 picks in this year's first round. The cards are #34 in the 2nd. rd., etc.
 

oaken1

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The quesr is, who would need a #1 WR to put them over the top? I think the Giants could be the perfect landing spot for him, but i don't see them giving up the #26 pick, though.

Would you take the #58th and #129th for him and the #170th. That would give us 7 picks inside 130. The Giants also have a lot of picks in this draft and 5 in the top 100.

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Id take 58 and 90 for him for sure.
 
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This team and prior poor FO showed us abundant evidence of what happens when you hold onto aging veterans with trade value--it doesn't end well. Factor in that he's been suspended; factor in his been injured a lot now; factor in his age; factor in how dumb it is giving big money to old players; factor in how bad we're going to be next season regardless if he's on the team or not. It is absolutely a no brainer to trade him now. Because the option isn't to trade him or keep him--the option is to trade him or give him a fat new extension full of more guaranteed money, because we aren't paying him 30 mill this season and he's not going to play without getting that fat new extension.
Like Calais?
 
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Like Chandler. Calais is a great older player, and a huge outlier. Definitely the exception and not the norm.

Are you telling me you want to give Hopkins a big money extension? Or you want to drop 30 mill on him this season? Do you think those are avenues to success?
I'm definitely okay with extending DHop another 3-4 years.
 

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Like Chandler. Calais is a great older player, and a huge outlier. Definitely the exception and not the norm.

Are you telling me you want to give Hopkins a big money extension? Or you want to drop 30 mill on him this season? Do you think those are avenues to success?

I don't think anyone believes that in the end DHop will be $30m against the available Cap in 2023. A trade gives us an additional $8.1m in relief and a one time $22m 'dead' money hit. A restructuring of his base salary of $19m would give the Cards $9.1m to play with.
 

GatorAZ

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The quesr is, who would need a #1 WR to put them over the top? I think the Giants could be the perfect landing spot for him, but i don't see them giving up the #26 pick, though.

Would you take the #58th and #129th for him and the #170th. That would give us 7 picks inside 130. The Giants also have a lot of picks in this draft and 5 in the top 100.

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Make it 58 and next year’s 2nd. I don’t trust the Giants having another year of overachieving.
 

bankybruce

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Make it 58 and next year’s 2nd. I don’t trust the Giants having another year of overachieving.
We are not getting 2 twos or a 1st for a guy that is one bad test from an year long suspension, over 30, and showing some wear. We might to settle for a single 2 or 3 at this point.
 

juza76

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We are not getting 2 twos or a 1st for a guy that is one bad test from an year long suspension, over 30, and showing some wear. We might to settle for a single 2 or 3 at this point.
But in a sub par offense he stil put 100 yards for game
 
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Today‘s word on the street. Even if some WR busts loose at the Combine, the draft pool & FA pool are both so weak the consensus is the Cards could get a first round pick for Hopkins. I still favor retaining him, as I see no replacement. Nonetheless you could objectively say he‘s at peak value now.
 

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Today‘s word on the street. Even if some WR busts loose at the Combine, the draft pool & FA pool are both so weak the consensus is the Cards could get a first round pick for Hopkins. I still favor retaining him, as I see no replacement. Nonetheless you could objectively say he‘s at peak value now.
If you can get a first for him right now you have to take it, TBH. Last season showed that Hollywood Brown can be extremely productive in stretches; he can probably bridge the gap as a Fake #1 until you develop someone to take over.

Part of the problem is that the cupboard is kind of bare after missing on both Isabella and Moore (probably). You'd love to have a fourth-round pick from three years ago ready to step in, but we have Greg Dortch.

Keim should be arrested and jailed for crimes against the community.
 
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