Heroes and Goats: Hard Knocks In Season Episode 1

kerouac9

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Haters gonna hate, but Hard Knocks is freaking awesome. I watched the premier of the Indy Colts series from last season just so I can do a compare and contrast. That episode started with Carson Wentz at home after a win with his pregnant wife and young daughter. It also featured undersized LB Darius Shaq Leonard with his young daughter. Then epically shot game film from a win over the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Some of this is paint-by-numbers for people who are veterans of the series. A lot of it is scripted (like the awkward conversation/dinner between Deandre Hopkins and Isaiah Simmons at some nameless but cool-as-heck-seeming restaurant somewhere — LMK if you recognized it) or at least staged, but the moments in the locker rooms, meeting rooms, and practice fields are as real as you're going to get on TV.

Heroes:

DeAndre Hopkins
- At least early, he's set up to be the star of the series. He has a great presence, and he might be the most charismatic person on the team right now (definitely on the offense). His question to WR coach Shawn Jefferson, "Can I still make the Hall of Fame" was misunderstood to mean is he still on pace. He was asking if he still qualifies after his suspension. Amazing guy.

Budda Baker's Little Sister - Lots of screen time for a young woman who doesn't have much to say. Fingers crossed that she gets accepted to :checks notes: Arizona State. Where she's always wanted to go. LOL!

Vance Joseph - Got a good edit and puts off strong "leader of men" vibes that aren't that dissimilar from Steve Wilks. He knows what the problem is with the defense and we'll never know why we can't cover a bootleg when we've seen it "Fourteen times in three games." It's troubling that the only solution that we get to see from coaching is "try harder" and "hustle more."

Goats:

Kliff Kingsbury
- YIKES. It's not gonna help the memes that he doesn't tie his shoes when addressing the coaches' meeting, his house looks like he just moved in and still only has all his dorm room furniture, and he looks like a guy whose time has run out at the front of the room. When he congratulated Kyler at the end of the Raiders game, it looked like they were meeting for the first time.

Michael Bidwill - I'm 100% certain that Michael thinks that he came off as smart and cool last night, with his jet and fancy electric truck and sitting next to Governor Doug. Instead, he seemed like exactly the kind of dim bulb failson who thinks he's smart and cool because he's surrounded himself with people on his payroll. How hard do you think he fought to include the shot where here "predicts" Budda will make a play?

Kyler Murray - Opening shot is Kyler Murray stomping alone into the lockerroom and everyone tiptoeing around him after a loss. His talking head is about how quiet Budda Baker is before we watch him talk constantly throughout the rest of the episode. When Budda breaks a huddle, Kyler is standing on the outside. In film session, it feels like he's making a reaction video to his own failures (he should have been seeing these for the third or fourth time). Does Kyler Murray even know anyone on the team?
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Perfect description of Bidwill. This is typical with trust fund types who never had to earn their stripes and have zero real friends or confidantes. He’s a clueless man baby who requires adoration and respect yet deep down knows he’s a total fraud and never did anything to deserve it.

Kyler has never been liked. Fitz hates/hated him as did most of the other vets, been saying that on this board for years. Part of that of course is the institutional laziness that permeates the building (Kyler does work really hard despite what the idiot video game media tells you, just prefers doing it alone) but the majority though is his loner/isolated personality. BA coming back would be perfect for this kid and the organization, we’d find out really damn quick what he’s made up of. Someone like Harbaugh also fits this.

The leadership vacuum is real: Bidwill is a loser and a fraud, Keim is a drunk idiot, Kliff is an over-his-head deer in headlights, and Kyler is a loner with a tough personality. One of the four above positions need to be someone who captains the ship and has the work ethic, IQ, and personality that a winning culture is bred from. It can’t be your past his prime DT or 5’8 safety.
 
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Haters gonna hate, but Hard Knocks is freaking awesome. I watched the premier of the Indy Colts series from last season just so I can do a compare and contrast. That episode started with Carson Wentz at home after a win with his pregnant wife and young daughter. It also featured undersized LB Darius Shaq Leonard with his young daughter. Then epically shot game film from a win over the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Some of this is paint-by-numbers for people who are veterans of the series. A lot of it is scripted (like the awkward conversation/dinner between Deandre Hopkins and Isaiah Simmons at some nameless but cool-as-heck-seeming restaurant somewhere — LMK if you recognized it) or at least staged, but the moments in the locker rooms, meeting rooms, and practice fields are as real as you're going to get on TV.

Heroes:

DeAndre Hopkins
- At least early, he's set up to be the star of the series. He has a great presence, and he might be the most charismatic person on the team right now (definitely on the offense). His question to WR coach Shawn Jefferson, "Can I still make the Hall of Fame" was misunderstood to mean is he still on pace. He was asking if he still qualifies after his suspension. Amazing guy.

Budda Baker's Little Sister - Lots of screen time for a young woman who doesn't have much to say. Fingers crossed that she gets accepted to :checks notes: Arizona State. Where she's always wanted to go. LOL!

Vance Joseph - Got a good edit and puts off strong "leader of men" vibes that aren't that dissimilar from Steve Wilks. He knows what the problem is with the defense and we'll never know why we can't cover a bootleg when we've seen it "Fourteen times in three games." It's troubling that the only solution that we get to see from coaching is "try harder" and "hustle more."

Goats:

Kliff Kingsbury
- YIKES. It's not gonna help the memes that he doesn't tie his shoes when addressing the coaches' meeting, his house looks like he just moved in and still only has all his dorm room furniture, and he looks like a guy whose time has run out at the front of the room. When he congratulated Kyler at the end of the Raiders game, it looked like they were meeting for the first time.

Michael Bidwill - I'm 100% certain that Michael thinks that he came off as smart and cool last night, with his jet and fancy electric truck and sitting next to Governor Doug. Instead, he seemed like exactly the kind of dim bulb failson who thinks he's smart and cool because he's surrounded himself with people on his payroll. How hard do you think he fought to include the shot where here "predicts" Budda will make a play?

Kyler Murray - Opening shot is Kyler Murray stomping alone into the lockerroom and everyone tiptoeing around him after a loss. His talking head is about how quiet Budda Baker is before we watch him talk constantly throughout the rest of the episode. When Budda breaks a huddle, Kyler is standing on the outside. In film session, it feels like he's making a reaction video to his own failures (he should have been seeing these for the third or fourth time). Does Kyler Murray even know anyone on the team?

I believe it was Hopkins Bidwill "predicted". No way that was on the TD pass and he saw Hopkins was going to be open on a crosser.

I was astounded how little Kyler there was. I watched the Colts one too and there was a tonne of Wentz. The show is often built around leaders and they often set the tone with the big names which is always the QB. I don't think we saw anything at all from Kyler direct to camera.

Kyler shouting "Calm the **** down" to Hopkins calmly telling him he was open was funny. Hopkins wasn't even mad, just telling him. Kyler looked mad at being questioned on "What you seeing?"

I thought Cam Turner looked weak. All the other position coaching got a little screen time of them coaching out their room. Cam Turner sat there like a beaten wife in every shot.

What I was really hoping for here was to be shown something that made me think my instincts were wrong, and sadly I wasn't.
 

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Haters gonna hate, but Hard Knocks is freaking awesome. I watched the premier of the Indy Colts series from last season just so I can do a compare and contrast. That episode started with Carson Wentz at home after a win with his pregnant wife and young daughter. It also featured undersized LB Darius Shaq Leonard with his young daughter. Then epically shot game film from a win over the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Some of this is paint-by-numbers for people who are veterans of the series. A lot of it is scripted (like the awkward conversation/dinner between Deandre Hopkins and Isaiah Simmons at some nameless but cool-as-heck-seeming restaurant somewhere — LMK if you recognized it) or at least staged, but the moments in the locker rooms, meeting rooms, and practice fields are as real as you're going to get on TV.

Heroes:

DeAndre Hopkins
- At least early, he's set up to be the star of the series. He has a great presence, and he might be the most charismatic person on the team right now (definitely on the offense). His question to WR coach Shawn Jefferson, "Can I still make the Hall of Fame" was misunderstood to mean is he still on pace. He was asking if he still qualifies after his suspension. Amazing guy.

Budda Baker's Little Sister - Lots of screen time for a young woman who doesn't have much to say. Fingers crossed that she gets accepted to :checks notes: Arizona State. Where she's always wanted to go. LOL!

Vance Joseph - Got a good edit and puts off strong "leader of men" vibes that aren't that dissimilar from Steve Wilks. He knows what the problem is with the defense and we'll never know why we can't cover a bootleg when we've seen it "Fourteen times in three games." It's troubling that the only solution that we get to see from coaching is "try harder" and "hustle more."

Goats:

Kliff Kingsbury
- YIKES. It's not gonna help the memes that he doesn't tie his shoes when addressing the coaches' meeting, his house looks like he just moved in and still only has all his dorm room furniture, and he looks like a guy whose time has run out at the front of the room. When he congratulated Kyler at the end of the Raiders game, it looked like they were meeting for the first time.

Michael Bidwill - I'm 100% certain that Michael thinks that he came off as smart and cool last night, with his jet and fancy electric truck and sitting next to Governor Doug. Instead, he seemed like exactly the kind of dim bulb failson who thinks he's smart and cool because he's surrounded himself with people on his payroll. How hard do you think he fought to include the shot where here "predicts" Budda will make a play?

Kyler Murray - Opening shot is Kyler Murray stomping alone into the lockerroom and everyone tiptoeing around him after a loss. His talking head is about how quiet Budda Baker is before we watch him talk constantly throughout the rest of the episode. When Budda breaks a huddle, Kyler is standing on the outside. In film session, it feels like he's making a reaction video to his own failures (he should have been seeing these for the third or fourth time). Does Kyler Murray even know anyone on the team?

No Heroes and GOATS for the Seahawks game this week?
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Also remember that Bidwill has final editorial approval on the series so his deep-rooted insecurity will make him force HBO to make him look cool, smart, rich, powerful, and talented.

Of course anyone that actually knows someone that fits the those categories knows that said people don’t actually want or need such ego massaging.
 
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kerouac9

kerouac9

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No Heroes and GOATS for the Seahawks game this week?

Nah. We're on to Los Angeles. Also, that game sucked. The best we're gonna get there is the "Explicit Content Warning" post because the who thing was trash. It's going to be mostly the same people, so everyone who loves it will be happy and all the people who are usually mad will be so. But, for funsies:

Heroes: Nuk, Conner, Collins
Goats: Kyler, Billy Price, Robbie Anderson

Also remember that Bidwill has final editorial approval on the series so his deep-rooted insecurity will make him force HBO to make him look cool, smart, rich, powerful, and talented.

Of course anyone that actually knows someone that fits the those categories knows that said people don’t actually want or need such ego massaging.

That's what's so hilarious about this. I'm 100% certain that the folks at Hard Knocks are savvy enough to be able to thread the needle between what Michael will think is cool, smart, rich, powerful, and talented, and an edit that lets everyone watching know that he's the opposite.
 

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That's what's so hilarious about this. I'm 100% certain that the folks at Hard Knocks are savvy enough to be able to thread the needle between what Michael will think is cool, smart, rich, powerful, and talented, and an edit that lets everyone watching know that he's the opposite.

Is there some definitive source of the owners having final say on what goes out? I've seen it said many times over the years but can't actually find anything online that confirms it.

I found this about the Browns season of Hard Knocks,

"As Pat McManamon of ESPN Cleveland wrote, “The Browns do not have any editorial control over storylines or how they are presented. However, Jackson and Dorsey will be able to watch the show in advance to ensure nothing of a competitive nature is revealed.”

But the “competitive nature” clause gives them wide latitude – and, in the end, this is an NFL Films production. NFL Films is not exactly in business to hurt NFL teams."

But apparently teams can only object to things they consider might give away things they don't want other teams to know such as plays, signals, tactics etc
 
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TRW

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I believe it was Hopkins Bidwill "predicted". No way that was on the TD pass and he saw Hopkins was going to be open on a crosser.

I was astounded how little Kyler there was. I watched the Colts one too and there was a tonne of Wentz. The show is often built around leaders and they often set the tone with the big names which is always the QB. I don't think we saw anything at all from Kyler direct to camera.

Kyler shouting "Calm the **** down" to Hopkins calmly telling him he was open was funny. Hopkins wasn't even mad, just telling him. Kyler looked mad at being questioned on "What you seeing?"

I thought Cam Turner looked weak. All the other position coaching got a little screen time of them coaching out their room. Cam Turner sat there like a beaten wife in every shot.

What I was really hoping for here was to be shown something that made me think my instincts were wrong, and sadly I wasn't.
Is this becoming his catch phrase a la Cousins' "you like that?!". LOL
 

TRW

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Not a hater. Don't know is Hard Knocks is awesome or not. Those kinds of shows (following people around) just don't appeal to me. Did enjoy your take on it though :thumbup:
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Is there some definitive source of the owners having final say on what goes out? I've seen it said many times over the years but can't actually find anything online that confirms it.

I found this about the Browns season of Hard Knocks,

"As Pat McManamon of ESPN Cleveland wrote, “The Browns do not have any editorial control over storylines or how they are presented. However, Jackson and Dorsey will be able to watch the show in advance to ensure nothing of a competitive nature is revealed.”

But the “competitive nature” clause gives them wide latitude – and, in the end, this is an NFL Films production. NFL Films is not exactly in business to hurt NFL teams."

But apparently teams can only object to things they consider might give away things they don't want other teams to know such as plays, signals, tactics etc
Michael Bidwill is one of the 32 owners of NFL Films, you can be assured that he has direct control over the content.
 

unseenaz

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Kyler shouting "Calm the **** down" to Hopkins calmly telling him he was open was funny. Hopkins wasn't even mad, just telling him. Kyler looked mad at being questioned on "What you seeing?"

I too thought this was telling. Kyler was saying "I'm going to get you the ball" as if that's what he thought Hopkins was mad about, Hop just says "...I want to win"
 

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Michael Bidwill is one of the 32 owners of NFL Films, you can be assured that he has direct control over the content.

I literally just quoted the Brown's saying they only have control over competitive elements but you believe what you like.

Plus several owners have come across poorly on Hard Knocks. The Haslams looked poor on the Browns one and I recall Mike brown looking very bad on the Bengals season.

However, the Hard Knocks people ain't stupid. They know what they can and can't get away with after so long and are clever about their edits.
 

Jetstream Green

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I sometimes might disagree with your game heroes and goats, but you know your football K9... as far reading a person's character, don't know about that and a majority your opinions seem to run counter to the national perception so far
Put it this way, personal character is very hard to discern, so your opinion and my own opinion is usually going to follow the narrative we have already placed in our head for the most part, so I do not know if anyone is qualified to say who is a goat or a hero on something which is not really about the 'X's and 'O's
 
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Cardinal88

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The whole league knows the 8 plays the Cards run...lol
What's to hide???
Yeah, but do they know we play Rochambeau to determine if we are going screen play behind the line of scrimage left or to the right? We wouldn't want that to get out! We might lose 8 yards instead of 3.
 
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MadCardDisease

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Hard Knocks is one of my favorite shows and I'm stoked that the Cardinals are on it. I always love a glimpse behind the curtain even if it is highly edited. The guys at HBO just know the magic formula for putting together a great show in a matter of days that is a good balance of football and the human element.

For me there really is only one Hero this episode and that is Budda Baker. My friend who works for the Cardinals says that the Budda shown on the screen is the same Budda that you would see if you met him in real life. Off the field he is laid back, chill and an all around great guy. However once the pads go on his passion for football comes out and he gives it everything that he has on every single play. One of the coaches in this episode (Billy Davis I think) challenges his players to go out and play harder than Budda. It was an awesome challenge that everyone knows is impossible to complete. No one could play harder than Budda or sacrafice his body more than Budda and that is why his is the only Hero of this episode!
 

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I hate the team, the owner, the coaches, and most of all the owners bro with no speaking parts..... Keimey Keim Keim.

That Leo painting was a major goat IMO.
 

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Too funny… Like that lion painting means anything about anything… The things we will critique on this board sometimes kill me…. Now if he had a big picture of himself like Terry crews in the movie White chicks I’d be a little concerned… lol
 
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Too funny… Like that lion painting means anything about anything… The things we will critique on this board sometimes kill me…. Now if he had a big picture of himself like Terry crews in the movie White chicks I’d be a little concerned… lol

Right? It's like a Rorschach test for fans.

Considering the sparseness of the rest of the apartment and the little we know of Kliff's personality does he seem like a guy that's big into star signs?

I'd bet my last dollar that picture was a gift from his girlfriend.

Girlfriend - "I saw it at the store and I know your a Leo and you know you're my King babe. And it fits that space so well. I just had to buy it".

Kliff - "Err great. I love it" (While watching film on a tablet)

Fans - "Kliff is an ego maniac that thinks he's the lion king and believes in astrology".
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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I believe it was Hopkins Bidwill "predicted". No way that was on the TD pass and he saw Hopkins was going to be open on a crosser.

I was astounded how little Kyler there was. I watched the Colts one too and there was a tonne of Wentz. The show is often built around leaders and they often set the tone with the big names which is always the QB. I don't think we saw anything at all from Kyler direct to camera.

Kyler shouting "Calm the **** down" to Hopkins calmly telling him he was open was funny. Hopkins wasn't even mad, just telling him. Kyler looked mad at being questioned on "What you seeing?"

I thought Cam Turner looked weak. All the other position coaching got a little screen time of them coaching out their room. Cam Turner sat there like a beaten wife in every shot.

What I was really hoping for here was to be shown something that made me think my instincts were wrong, and sadly I wasn't.
He got mad about "What you seeing"? Because he thought it was another joke about his height lol. Kyler said something about throwing him the ball after that yet he only targeted him once after that, I believe it was the TD catch overturned by the Robbie Anderson false start & that was it?
 

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