Hawks @ Suns Wednesday game thread 2-1-2023

AzStevenCal

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It’s fun to think this team is “this” close… That all they need is to pick up a solid trade for Crowder, get Book back and Voila, instant threat in the post season.
But they’re really not that close at all. Paul is simply not a reliable, viable PG. And in the grind of the post season where you play the same team 5,6 or 7 times, he won’t last…
Cam Johnson is not a starter… his defense is horrendous and his shooting is spotty. And his athleticism is lacking.
If the best thing we can say about our bench is Dario Saric… well, again, we’re just not that close at all…
You're right and you're wrong, but you're mostly right. This team is "this" close, sort of. If we get everyone healthy and add a player of Jae's impact, we have a shot. The best one we're likely to get until we add another star but it's all contingent on CP3 playing like he has in the past. And that was the risk we took when we hitched our wagon to an injury prone elderly PG. We made the finals because we took that risk, and we look to be an easy exit this postseason for the same reason (assuming we get there).

Cam is moving slower today than he used to and that's exposing him on defense but I expect that to pick up when he drops a little of the weight he's added. Some here have advocated a move to SF but I've never thought he had the quickness for that position and it's even worse today. I disagree about him not being a starter, he's just not all the way back yet despite a couple of outstanding games when he first came back. I think we all remember how long it took last time for him to be a consistent player at both ends following an injury.
 

Phrazbit

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That was probably the worst game I've paid to see in person in any sport...

That's all I have to say about that.
 

Proximo

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I don’t understand this team at all. How it can repeatily play this terribly this season doesn’t make any sense to me.

perhaps it needs to be broken up. Something isn’t working.
 

Finito

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Atlanta runs the same damn offense Dallas runs pretty much. Iso one guy and spread out.
 

82CardsGrad

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You're right and you're wrong, but you're mostly right. This team is "this" close, sort of. If we get everyone healthy and add a player of Jae's impact, we have a shot. The best one we're likely to get until we add another star but it's all contingent on CP3 playing like he has in the past. And that was the risk we took when we hitched our wagon to an injury prone elderly PG. We made the finals because we took that risk, and we look to be an easy exit this postseason for the same reason (assuming we get there).

Cam is moving slower today than he used to and that's exposing him on defense but I expect that to pick up when he drops a little of the weight he's added. Some here have advocated a move to SF but I've never thought he had the quickness for that position and it's even worse today. I disagree about him not being a starter, he's just not all the way back yet despite a couple of outstanding games when he first came back. I think we all remember how long it took last time for him to be a consistent player at both ends following an injury.
I am 100% convinced CP3 is toast and will not hold up during the grind of the post season… should we somehow get there. Yes, he was a huge part of our finals run. But that was clearly his last gasp. His final high-water mark.
I get it… and we’re not gonna sit his crotchety arse on the bench. So we got what we got. But, make no mistake, he is now much more part of the problem than he is the solution.

As for Cam… you have far greater hope for him than I do. My conviction about Cam is equal to that of Paul, as I am convinced Cam’s highest & best use is as a 6th man.
 

AzStevenCal

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I am 100% convinced CP3 is toast and will not hold up during the grind of the post season… should we somehow get there. Yes, he was a huge part of our finals run. But that was clearly his last gasp. His final high-water mark.
I get it… and we’re not gonna sit his crotchety arse on the bench. So we got what we got. But, make no mistake, he is now much more part of the problem than he is the solution.

As for Cam… you have far greater hope for him than I do. My conviction about Cam is equal to that of Paul, as I am convinced Cam’s highest & best use is as a 6th man.
With Paul, I'm about 90% convinced he's toast, at least to the point where we can no longer count on him to be that second star we need. And with Cameron Johnson, i'd love an upgrade but that's mostly due to injuries. Between his injuries and how long it takes him to become relevant again once he returns, we really need another starter quality PF.
 
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AzStevenCal

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I don’t understand this team at all. How it can repeatily play this terribly this season doesn’t make any sense to me.

perhaps it needs to be broken up. Something isn’t working.
For me, how they play well occasionally is the surprise, not the bad nights. And while we've had some players return from injury, we're still missing our best player and arguably our 3 best players off the bench. So when CP3 isn't playing at a star level, that's effectively 5 out of our top 8 we're missing and we're wildly outclassed by every team.

Most opponents see a G League squad when they face us and it shows in their preparation and intensity. I suspect some of them get a little psyched up when the game is nationally televised so we tend to get abused on those nights.
 

95pro

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Wow a real barn burner lol, glad i sat this one out.
 

Covert Rain

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Bridges took 18 shots and was 1 of 7 from three…to get his 23 pts… 10 of which came from the free throw line.
Putrid might be a little strong… He brought some energy, in spurts. But his shooting was terrible.

More importantly, this team is going nowhere without Booker AND a legit Wing threat.
Cam Johnson is a great 6th man option… that’s it. His defense is incredibly poor. He was consistently out of position tonight. Major disappointment all around with him.

And man… watching DA in person makes him all the more frustrating. His size and physical stature alone are beyond stunning. Combined with his athleticism, you would think he would be putting up triple doubles nearly as often as Joker! Ugh….
He was 6/18 but that is misleading. He was fouled 5 times on those shots?!!? He made all 10 of his free throws. He would have been 10 or 11 for 18 if not for getting fouled. Bridges was pretty much the only one showing consistent energy out there. However, the team defense was about as bad as I have seen it all year long. It was really bad. Guys out of position, getting caught on screens, leaving 3-point shooters and the lane wide open. It was UGLY.

I was thinking about going to this game but was so busy this week and I am waiting for Book to get back before I go again. I would have been PO if I had paid for this game.
 
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Mainstreet

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It’s fun to think this team is “this” close… That all they need is to pick up a solid trade for Crowder, get Book back and Voila, instant threat in the post season.
But they’re really not that close at all. Paul is simply not a reliable, viable PG. And in the grind of the post season where you play the same team 5,6 or 7 times, he won’t last…
Cam Johnson is not a starter… his defense is horrendous and his shooting is spotty. And his athleticism is lacking.
If the best thing we can say about our bench is Dario Saric… well, again, we’re just not that close at all…

I no longer think the Suns are "this" close. The wounds have festered too long.

It's more than about talent now. There is an element of quit in this team that cannot easily be treated.
 

AzStevenCal

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I no longer think the Suns are "this" close. The wounds have festered too long.

It's more than about talent now. There is an element of quit in this team that cannot easily be treated.
I disagree, it is mostly about talent. We are playing right now with a PG that on some nights wouldn't crack the rotation for any other team, one good starter, two borderline starters and a bunch of players that would be riding the bench most nights for almost any team in the league. That's not a talented squad. And they all know it, and show it when the going gets tough. On the nights CP3 turns back the clock, we have a chance but even then, we'd fall to any decent opponent that was motivated and prepared. Fortunately a lot of teams take the night off against us.
 

82CardsGrad

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I disagree, it is mostly about talent. We are playing right now with a PG that on some nights wouldn't crack the rotation for any other team, one good starter, two borderline starters and a bunch of players that would be riding the bench most nights for almost any team in the league. That's not a talented squad. And they all know it, and show it when the going gets tough. On the nights CP3 turns back the clock, we have a chance but even then, we'd fall to any decent opponent that was motivated and prepared. Fortunately a lot of teams take the night off against us.
THIS!
 

82CardsGrad

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He was 6/18 but that is misleading. He was fouled 5 times on those shots?!!? He made all 10 of his free throws. He would have been 10 or 11 for 18 if not for getting fouled. Bridges was pretty much the only one showing consistent energy out there. However, the team defense was about as bad as I have seen it all year long. It was really bad. Guys out of position, getting caught on screens, leaving 3-point shooters and the lane wide open. It was UGLY.

I was thinking about going to this game but was so busy this week and I am waiting for Book to get back before I go again. I would have been PO if I had paid for this game.
I was at the game and was lucky enough to have incredible seats - essentially on the floor. IMHO, Ayton was the best player on the floor...and this is coming from someone who is about as harsh on DA as any other poster on this board!
Bridges wasn't "putrid." That was too harsh. But there is no way he would've made "10 or 11" of the shots where he was fouled...Many of them were really poor shots that had virtually no chance of being made, foul or no foul...and, most of the fouls he received were absolutely not of the sort that had an impact on the ball not going in. His shot selection and his stroke, were REALLY, REALLY bad last night.
 
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Mainstreet

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I disagree, it is mostly about talent. We are playing right now with a PG that on some nights wouldn't crack the rotation for any other team, one good starter, two borderline starters and a bunch of players that would be riding the bench most nights for almost any team in the league. That's not a talented squad. And they all know it, and show it when the going gets tough. On the nights CP3 turns back the clock, we have a chance but even then, we'd fall to any decent opponent that was motivated and prepared. Fortunately a lot of teams take the night off against us.

When I say it's more than about talent, I think there are chemistry or coaching issues with the team.

There is a lot of quit in this team since the Dallas playoff series last season. I don't think it has been fixed as the Suns have been involved in a lot of runaway losses like against the Hawks last night.

Certainly, the Suns need Chris Paul needs to play well for the Suns to win, but I think the issues are bigger. For example, the defensive effort is not there from the starters or the bench. The Suns didn't even make a run against the Hawks. I have some genuine concern about the coaching and players as presently composed.
 

Covert Rain

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I was at the game and was lucky enough to have incredible seats - essentially on the floor. IMHO, Ayton was the best player on the floor...and this is coming from someone who is about as harsh on DA as any other poster on this board!
Bridges wasn't "putrid." That was too harsh. But there is no way he would've made "10 or 11" of the shots where he was fouled...Many of them were really poor shots that had virtually no chance of being made, foul or no foul...and, most of the fouls he received were absolutely not of the sort that had an impact on the ball not going in. His shot selection and his stroke, were REALLY, REALLY bad last night.
Well I watched the game. He would have made a few of those shots. The others? He did what every coach preaches. Get to the bucket and drive to get fouled. That means even if you think you don't have a great shot. He did exactly what you should be doing with the ball and draw fouls. You don't count those against him. If you go 6/18 and you are fouled on 5 of those shots? That means 7 of the 18 were uncontested misses (38%). The other 62% were hits or contested. Again...that stat is misleading.
 
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82CardsGrad

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When I say it's more than about talent, I think there are chemistry or coaching issues with the team.

There is a lot of quit in this team since the Dallas playoff series last season. I don't think it has been fixed as the Suns have been involved in a lot of runaway losses like against the Hawks last night.

Certainly, the Suns need Chris Paul needs to play well for the Suns to win, but I think the issues are bigger. For example, the defensive effort is not there from the starters or the bench. The Suns didn't even make a run against the Hawks. I have some genuine concern about the coaching and players as presently composed.
Gotta say... I've been to 4 games this season, and watching the players and coaches pre-game, and in-game, you wouldn't come away feeling as if there are chemistry or coaching issues. The guys seems extremely tight, connected and committed.
As for the defensive effort..., what I saw last night is a shot PG who is no longer of adding any value on the defensive end of the court (and sporadic value offensively), a Cam Johnson who is overmatched, physically/athletically and therefore unable to be relied upon, and a bench who are woefully overmatched in every way...

The effort was there - with the possible exception of CP3. They simply aren't good enough and as has been said many times, guys like Cam and Torey would likely not be starters on other contending teams and our bench, with the exception of Dario, is filled with dudes who are pathetically overmatched and should RARELY see any playing time whatsoever...
 
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Mainstreet

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Gotta say... I've been to 4 games this season, and watching the players and coaches pre-game, and in-game, you wouldn't come away feeling as if there are chemistry or coaching issues. The guys seems extremely tight, connected and committed.
As for the defensive effort..., what I saw last night is a shot PG who is no longer of adding any value on the defensive end of the court (and sporadic value offensively), a Cam Johnson who is overmatched, physically/athletically and therefore unable to be relied upon, and a bench who are woefully overmatched in every way...

The effort was there - with the possible exception of CP3. They simply aren't good enough and as has been said many times, guys like Cam and Torey would likely not be starters on other contending teams and our bench, with the exception of Dario, is filled with dudes who are pathetically overmatched and should RARELY see any playing time whatsoever...

James Jones chose to run this team back with minimal improvements. It is what it is.

Injuries have hurt this team but they shouldn't be getting blown out by losing teams, especially at home. The Suns should move on from Chris Paul when given the opportunity but I'm not going to put all the blame on him either. The Suns as a team lost to the Hawks. There is plenty of blame to go around.
 

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Even during the Bender/Jackson era I don't remember this many games where the Suns trailed by 40+.
 

AzStevenCal

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Even during the Bender/Jackson era I don't remember this many games where the Suns trailed by 40+.
Nobody bothered to prepare for us, we weren't even a good G League talent-wise. As for getting way behind, it was a regular occurrence back then although I'm not sure how many reached that 40 point deficit?
 
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Mainstreet

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The Suns defense was so bad the Hawks shot 57.1% from the field and 57.6% from 3-point range.
 

Covert Rain

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James Jones chose to run this team back with minimal improvements. It is what it is.

Injuries have hurt this team but they shouldn't be getting blown out by losing teams, especially at home. The Suns should move on from Chris Paul when given the opportunity but I'm not going to put all the blame on him either. The Suns as a team lost to the Hawks. There is plenty of blame to go around.
What kills me is many of had seen this coming from a mile away. The last two offseasons not doing enough to improve the team. Monty has been extremely stubborn, but I think some of that is coming from James Jones. If I hear him suggest or insinuate one more time the team has enough only to make basically a bench filler move, I am going to puke. Two seasons of that crap during our window will be eventually what closes our window IMO.
 

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Well I watched the game. He would have made a few of those shots. The others? He did what every coach preaches. Get to the bucket and drive to get fouled. That means even if you think you don't have a great shot. He did exactly what you should be doing with the ball and draw fouls. You don't count those against him. If you go 6/18 and you are fouled on 5 of those shots? That means 7 of the 18 were uncontested misses (38%). The other 62% were hits or contested. Again...that stat is misleading.
Shots on which a player is fouled do not count as shot attempts.
 
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