Game of Thrones (HBO)

[Cheesebeef]

At the end of last season I thought Sansa had grown up and realized she needed to be one step ahead of everyone's thinking, or would end up a perpetual victim. Saw her arch going in the direction of being a Baelish accomplice. Instead, they wrote her character as if last season's finale never happened. Even the dress tearing was just a recycled scene. Sansa's story is and has been a complete waste of the viewer's time.

A battle of Sand Snakes vs. Bronn and Jamie should have been epic. This could have been a 5 minute, well choreographed fight with turns, surprises, enjoyable cinematography, etc. Instead we got what looked like a bunch of LARPer nerds in front of the 2nd unit director and crew.

I did enjoy the Baelish scene. Made me wonder if his proposal for the North was his plan all along, as revenge against the Starks for taking Catelyn from him. Just imagined him taking years to move all the chess pieces around until he could finally say, "Checkmate'.

I think Baelish's endgame goes far beyond the North. He wants the Crown of all. Getting Westeros and the North in a real war will destroy both houses and leave him to pick up the pieces somehow, IMO.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Havent seen the last two episodes but I am on team Stannis, which means he is going to die

Also Jon Snow is kind of funny...

He is all vows and duty until a hot redhead takes him in a cave.

 

[Stout]

He is all vows and duty until a hot redhead takes him in a cave.

Aren't we all?

 

[Covert Rain]

I think Baelish's endgame goes far beyond the North. He wants the Crown of all. Getting Westeros and the North in a real war will destroy both houses and leave him to pick up the pieces somehow, IMO.

Baelish's manipulative character is the most interesting to me in the entire series. The characters can never tell if what he is doing is self serving or if he really is attempting to help someone. I love it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Aren't we all?

ha... truer words never spoken.

 

[Chaplin]

Man, they are absolutely flubbing the Sansa story line. In a terrible, boring, non-compelling way. Ugh.

The Sand Snakes crap has been pathetic too.

Otherwise I'm liking it. I think the show's quality is on the downhill side, yes, but that's because of the source material. Storm of Swords was the absolute peak. I hope it regains traction in Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring. We'll see.

Totally disagree, Sansa's story has been the most compelling--what with Theon/Reek and Brienne in the neighborhood. I'm really looking forward to what happens there. So much bad has happened to Sansa--outside of actually being killed, she is BY FAR the unluckiest character in the show. It's amazing she hadn't been raped before this. That said, I'm not sure what you'd want her to do in that situation. On one hand you have the man who (supposedly) killed her brothers, which is scary enough in itself, but on the other you have a sadistic psychopath--she knew she couldn't defend herself if she resisted. SHe's doing exactly what Littlefinger told her to do--survive.

My biggest hope is this final act is the final thing that not only turns around her character, but Theon as well. I could see the two of them with Brienne and Pod fighting their way out--maybe during the coming battle with Stannis, killing Ramsey and Roose Bolton on the way out.

That said, the only other decent things in this episode were the Tyrion stuff and Dame Diana Riggs. Oleanna kicks all kinds of ass, and I can't wait to see what she does against Cersei.

The Dorne stuff is so watered down (with average at best choreography), and to top it all off, Bronn is probably going to die in the next episode or two because of the cut from the poisoned sword.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Totally disagree, Sansa's story has been the most compelling--what with Theon/Reek and Brienne in the neighborhood. I'm really looking forward to what happens there. So much bad has happened to Sansa--outside of actually being killed, she is BY FAR the unluckiest character in the show. It's amazing she hadn't been raped before this. That said, I'm not sure what you'd want her to do in that situation. On one hand you have the man who (supposedly) killed her brothers, which is scary enough in itself, but on the other you have a sadistic psychopath--she knew she couldn't defend herself if she resisted. SHe's doing exactly what Littlefinger told her to do--survive.

My biggest hope is this final act is the final thing that not only turns around her character, but Theon as well. I could see the two of them with Brienne and Pod fighting their way out--maybe during the coming battle with Stannis, killing Ramsey and Roose Bolton on the way out.

here's my call... no one in this show seemingly EVER dies at the hand of people we expect them to. So, I don't think Ramsay bites it from either Wreak or Sansa's hand. My out there theory is that I think his ex-girlfriend who washed Sansa's hair kills him in a jealous rage and pins it on either Wreak or Sansa (who gets blamed AGAIN for killing her husband even though she didn't). But after the rape, Sansa is now in control of the North, carrying the only heir to the Bolton's claim on the territory and starts to begin to wield power.

 

[Stout]

Totally disagree, Sansa's story has been the most compelling--what with Theon/Reek and Brienne in the neighborhood. I'm really looking forward to what happens there. So much bad has happened to Sansa--outside of actually being killed, she is BY FAR the unluckiest character in the show. It's amazing she hadn't been raped before this. That said, I'm not sure what you'd want her to do in that situation. On one hand you have the man who (supposedly) killed her brothers, which is scary enough in itself, but on the other you have a sadistic psychopath--she knew she couldn't defend herself if she resisted. SHe's doing exactly what Littlefinger told her to do--survive.

My biggest hope is this final act is the final thing that not only turns around her character, but Theon as well. I could see the two of them with Brienne and Pod fighting their way out--maybe during the coming battle with Stannis, killing Ramsey and Roose Bolton on the way out.

That said, the only other decent things in this episode were the Tyrion stuff and Dame Diana Riggs. Oleanna kicks all kinds of ass, and I can't wait to see what she does against Cersei.

The Dorne stuff is so watered down (with average at best choreography), and to top it all off, Bronn is probably going to die in the next episode or two because of the cut from the poisoned sword.

The writers completely fumbled the ball by having her agree, of her own volition, to go to the North and place herself in the hands of her family's murderers. They deliberately changed the books last season to give Sansa more backbone, to make her smart and savvy...only to make her a complete idiot who gets NO sympathy from me. She had a choice, and now she's reaping the whirlwind because of it. Stupid, boring, and not at all compelling.

I mean, I get that Weiss and Benioff want to try to pump up some villains for the season, but the Boltons are simply boring. We've had too much of these boring, cardboard villains in seasons past; now we're being force fed MORE of them. Not fun.

 

[Chaplin]

The writers completely fumbled the ball by having her agree, of her own volition, to go to the North and place herself in the hands of her family's murderers. They deliberately changed the books last season to give Sansa more backbone, to make her smart and savvy...only to make her a complete idiot who gets NO sympathy from me. She had a choice, and now she's reaping the whirlwind because of it. Stupid, boring, and not at all compelling.

I mean, I get that Weiss and Benioff want to try to pump up some villains for the season, but the Boltons are simply boring. We've had too much of these boring, cardboard villains in seasons past; now we're being force fed MORE of them. Not fun.

What "choice" did she have? She was a prisoner of Littlefinger just as much as she was of Cersei/Joffrey.

 

[Covert Rain]

here's my call... no one in this show seemingly EVER dies at the hand of people we expect them to. So, I don't think Ramsay bites it from either Wreak or Sansa's hand. My out there theory is that I think his ex-girlfriend who washed Sansa's hair kills him in a jealous rage and pins it on either Wreak or Sansa (who gets blamed AGAIN for killing her husband even though she didn't). But after the rape, Sansa is now in control of the North, carrying the only heir to the Bolton's claim on the territory and starts to begin to wield power.

This. Plus I could swear I heard George Martin convey in an interview that his books are not about justice. He said that if people are expecting justice for every bad thing or against every villain it's not going to happen because that is closer to real life.

 

[Phrazbit]

The writers completely fumbled the ball by having her agree, of her own volition, to go to the North and place herself in the hands of her family's murderers. They deliberately changed the books last season to give Sansa more backbone, to make her smart and savvy...only to make her a complete idiot who gets NO sympathy from me. She had a choice, and now she's reaping the whirlwind because of it. Stupid, boring, and not at all compelling.

I mean, I get that Weiss and Benioff want to try to pump up some villains for the season, but the Boltons are simply boring. We've had too much of these boring, cardboard villains in seasons past; now we're being force fed MORE of them. Not fun.

I'm with you on this. It also does not help that the actress playing Sansa is stiff as a board. In the scene with Little Finger where she protests going to Winterfell she showed about as much emotional range as a door jam.

And I think everyone is aware that Ramsey Bolton is probably the most disturbed character on the show. The extended scenes of either emotional or physical torture have lost their shock value and are now just tiresome. The message can be sent that he raped someone or has again left Reek in the fetal position without a long scene showing us each agonizing moment, especially when there are so many more compelling story lines getting far briefer face time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think Baelish's endgame goes far beyond the North. He wants the Crown of all. Getting Westeros and the North in a real war will destroy both houses and leave him to pick up the pieces somehow, IMO.

Fits with Varys line about how Baelish would burn the world if he could be king of the ashes.

 

[Stout]

What "choice" did she have? She was a prisoner of Littlefinger just as much as she was of Cersei/Joffrey.

Littlefinger gave her a choice, and she said yes. She CHOSE to go North. Now, does he kidnap her and take her anyway? I seriously doubt it. Those are Vale troops they're with, and the changes the show made last year showed Sansa has Littlefinger by the short hairs where it comes to power in the Vale.

But okay, say he doesn't care and takes her anyway, and pulls it off. Say Sansa says no, because she decides she doesn't want to go north, and Littlefinger takes her anyway. If she really didn't want to go, why not take Brienne's out? Or at least invite her along?

Sorry, but the show CLEARLY represents her as choosing to go North. I think--I'm not saying this for sure--I THINK they meant her to choose to go North, to put herself in harms way, in order to get revenge. And I think that's an extremely stupid choice. The plotline sucks now, making her non-interesting right after changing the books to MAKE her interesting.

 

[Phrazbit]

Littlefinger gave her a choice, and she said yes. She CHOSE to go North. Now, does he kidnap her and take her anyway? I seriously doubt it. Those are Vale troops they're with, and the changes the show made last year showed Sansa has Littlefinger by the short hairs where it comes to power in the Vale.

I thought the people in the Vale (other than the late Lysa) were all under the impression Sansa is Littlefinger's niece or something.

 

[Stout]

I thought the people in the Vale (other than the late Lysa) were all under the impression Sansa is Littlefinger's niece or something.

No, remember, they changed the books at the end of last season, with her coming out as Sansa Stark to them, which put Littlefinger in a really awkward position there.

 

[SO91]

Littlefinger gave her a choice, and she said yes. She CHOSE to go North. Now, does he kidnap her and take her anyway? I seriously doubt it. Those are Vale troops they're with, and the changes the show made last year showed Sansa has Littlefinger by the short hairs where it comes to power in the Vale.

But okay, say he doesn't care and takes her anyway, and pulls it off. Say Sansa says no, because she decides she doesn't want to go north, and Littlefinger takes her anyway. If she really didn't want to go, why not take Brienne's out? Or at least invite her along?

Sorry, but the show CLEARLY represents her as choosing to go North. I think--I'm not saying this for sure--I THINK they meant her to choose to go North, to put herself in harms way, in order to get revenge. And I think that's an extremely stupid choice. The plotline sucks now, making her non-interesting right after changing the books to MAKE her interesting.

She didn't have much of a choice though. Where else is she supposed to go, if not North? Also as far the writing goes, I assume they're using her character to advance the story line that was originally in the book

Spoiler

and the Pink Letter

 

[Stout]

She didn't have much of a choice though. Where else is she supposed to go, if not North? Also as far the writing goes, I assume they're using her character to advance the story line that was originally in the book

Spoiler

and the Pink Letter

Go back to the Vale, where she's the natural heir, unlike in the books. I get what you said in the spoiler, but then why change her from the books last season? Makes no sense if you're just going to make her stupid again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

good episode last night. pieces of the puzzle finally coming together.

 

[Stout]

This season is, by far, the worst, and not because of book deviations.

 

[cardfaninfl]

This season is, by far, the worst, and not because of book deviations.

Never a good sign when a show starts to cannibalize its own canon. “A girl who is almost raped doesn't invite another man into her bed two hours later.” - Shae The Funny *****. After last week, yet another rape scene was a little too soon for my comfort level.

The Cersei / Margarery scene didn't ring true. Even the smallest, most timid animal will strike back if cornered and has nothing to lose. Kept thinking if you put any two people in the world in that same scenario, more than just deer stew gets thrown... everytime.

And if Cersei gets taken down I want her to be eaten by dragons, or burned alive with wild fire, at the very least disemboweled by an army of angry dwarves. Being outmatched by an ungrateful weenie is a little less than satisfying.

I liked the Bronn / Sand Snakes scene. The rolling of the eyes, expressing 'Here she goes again' was one of the subtlest and funny things in a long time.

 

[Phrazbit]

This season is, by far, the worst, and not because of book deviations.

The moments of humor have been few and far between, there has been virtually no action and those long captivating conversations between characters (many of which are taken verbatim from the source material) have been missing.

Its just been pieces moving around the board and a LOT of time spent on some of the shows least compelling characters, AKA Sam, Gilly and the Boltons.

Its not bad, but it hasn't sniffed the level of previous seasons. Hopefully its deliberately been a slow boil and things are about to go off the rails.

 

[Chaplin]

This season is, by far, the worst, and not because of book deviations.

Geez, we get it. You've basically posted the same thing after every episode this season. Are you trying to convince us? Because I can't figure out why you keep posting this over and over.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Geez, we get it. You've basically posted the same thing after every episode this season. Are you trying to convince us? Because I can't figure out why you keep posting this over and over.

maybe he's posting that because he thinks it isn't getting better and is waiting to see if it does after every episode? Then, when it doesn't, he gives his opinion. That's usually the way these threads work.

 

[MadCardDisease]

good episode last night. pieces of the puzzle finally coming together.

Yeah finally getting to some juicy parts it seems. Been a slow season so far.

 

[Stout]

Geez, we get it. You've basically posted the same thing after every episode this season. Are you trying to convince us? Because I can't figure out why you keep posting this over and over.

See below.

maybe he's posting that because he thinks it isn't getting better and is waiting to see if it does after every episode? Then, when it doesn't, he gives his opinion. That's usually the way these threads work.

Thank you, Cheese. I didn't realize I had to qualify my posts lol

If you'll remember, Chap, I liked the season early on, enjoying the slow burn of the first few episodes. I do feel it's fallen apart from there, though.