Free Agency

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,879
Location
Colorado
This is inane. Yes, they have this much cap space to work with, but they have 24 total players on the roster next season if you count DHop, Conner, and Ertz. Even if you assume that all of our draft picks stick (and throw in a three more from trades), that's 31 players of 53 you need to fill a football team and 80 to take to training camp.

This is no way to build a railroad. We're following the Bears, Texans, and Lions down a path where no one knows where it leads.
Yeah…it is a narrow path to success for sure. Somehow after what is looking like it will be a terrible season the Cardinals will be able to attract top players while also getting immediate above league average production from a majority of its first two rookie classes. All of this while avoiding any sort of injuries to the few quality players we have.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,879
Location
Colorado
This idea that you build a culture of winning by putting together a roster incapable of competing is crazy to me. Build a culture of resiliency by throwing away a season because you don’t know when your franchise QB will be healthy.
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,969
Reaction score
35,879
Location
Colorado
This isn’t fantasy football though. The Cardinals still have to field a team in 2023. You can’t sell season tickets and not put a team on the field and at least make an attempt to win games.

Those aging players that you referenced I assume are Ertz and Conner. They are already paid for this season as part of the generous contract that Keim gave them. It makes zero sense to move on from them this season. Don’t shoot the messenger. They will be gone next season when it makes sense.

“But MadCard they just re-signed a 30 year old CB in Hamilton.” Yes they did. It’s a one year deal on the cheap to help get the Cards through the 2023 season.

There will be a bunch more contracts like this that will be signed in the coming months as the Cardinals slowly plug holes this season on the cheap. Don’t expect
any big names. It makes no sense to spend big money on expensive FAs this year.

The Cards will draft about 10 players this season. There will UDFA brought in as well. These players are the beginning and the future of the new look Cardinals. How well Monti drafts and identifies talent will be a big part of how long the pain lasts.

Next season the Cards will add 8 more or so players via the 2024 draft. They will also be able to start targeting several key Free Agents. Hopefully by then Kyler will be back to 100%. This is the season where if all goes well the Cards are competitive enough to Compete for a wild card spot.

If in a couple of years only one or two players drafted by Monti are making an impact then the Cards will be in serious trouble.
Yeah…if this is the plan it is an arrogant one for sure and it likely won’t work.
 

Dayman

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
5,958
Reaction score
7,257
Location
Portland, Oregon
I'm sure you have quotes from Cards HQ saying that the Cards are 'tanking' this year.
I'm sure you have quotes from me saying that the Cards have officially stated they are "tanking" rather than a group of fans applying that term to the team's contradictory offseason.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,519
Reaction score
21,571
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Where did I say shut up & wait & see? I said it's closer to the opposite of what you said. Personally I wanted to keep Murphy & Allen. But Allen wasn't coming back no matter what because he wanted to follow VJ imo.
IMO no one has a clue if we could've brought them back, but it's a fair opinion to hold. And what about the old players we're giving money to to run it back? You know, those signings that just waste money and run complete contradictory to what we're supposedly doing?
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,519
Reaction score
21,571
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Exactly. And contracts that are costing 1-2 peanuts. It’s the stupid contracts like Hopkins, Murray and others that are the back breakers.
We want to be and are probably going to be the worse team in the league next year. Not Signing Allen or Murphy opened my eyes to this regimes plans. I’ve accepted it.
You've accepted a 3-4 year rebuild before we hope to be good? Glad one of us can...
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,519
Reaction score
21,571
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
This isn’t fantasy football though. The Cardinals still have to field a team in 2023. You can’t sell season tickets and not put a team on the field and at least make an attempt to win games.

Those aging players that you referenced I assume are Ertz and Conner. They are already paid for this season as part of the generous contract that Keim gave them. It makes zero sense to move on from them this season. Don’t shoot the messenger. They will be gone next season when it makes sense.

“But MadCard they just re-signed a 30 year old CB in Hamilton.” Yes they did. It’s a one year deal on the cheap to help get the Cards through the 2023 season.

There will be a bunch more contracts like this that will be signed in the coming months as the Cardinals slowly plug holes this season on the cheap. Don’t expect
any big names. It makes no sense to spend big money on expensive FAs this year.

The Cards will draft about 10 players this season. There will UDFA brought in as well. These players are the beginning and the future of the new look Cardinals. How well Monti drafts and identifies talent will be a big part of how long the pain lasts.

Next season the Cards will add 8 more or so players via the 2024 draft. They will also be able to start targeting several key Free Agents. Hopefully by then Kyler will be back to 100%. This is the season where if all goes well the Cards are competitive enough to Compete for a wild card spot.

If in a couple of years only one or two players drafted by Monti are making an impact then the Cards will be in serious trouble.
No, they have run it back with any number more older players. They are doing nothing, repeat, nothing to add long-term young talent. Yes, they have to field a team this year. No, they're not limited to 1-2 year deals when they field this team. Yes, they are actually allowed to retain young talent. No, they don't have to overspend by 4 or 5 mill on an ancient kicker in a tank year. Yes, they can count on only rookies for the rebuild, which will make the rebuild take 3-4 years or, more likely, mean it will never work.

Out of all those drafted/UDFA players this year, maybe a handful start, and maybe we get a handful of role players. Generously, let's say 6. Then there may be a few ST only players. Considering how bare our roster is, doing that twice and relying on FA will bag us progress...maybe we'll win 5 games in 2024 instead of 2. And if we draft poorly...Lord help us. It's not a winning strategy. We needed a solid draft and to retain some talent and to sign some long-term young talent, and to repeat the process next season. We are very much failing in that.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,332
Reaction score
37,831
Location
UK
This idea that you build a culture of winning by putting together a roster incapable of competing is crazy to me. Build a culture of resiliency by throwing away a season because you don’t know when your franchise QB will be healthy.

You obviously can't build a culture of winning without, erm, winning. That's why nobody is trying to build a culture of winning.

You build a culture that leads to winning. Max effort on and off the field. Physical football. Good coaching. Smart players. Do your job mentality etc etc

How did the Lions build their culture with so much losing? They were something like 4-19 under Campbell until Game 8 this year.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,332
Reaction score
37,831
Location
UK
You know what's hilarious about all the complaining around here?

There's an alternate timeline where they resign Allen and Murphy and those same people would be saying "It's a multi year rebuild. It's going to take some time to turn it around" etc etc. People who were saying exactly that 2 months ago are now absolutely enraged because we didn't resign these two.

I do not understand how they think 2 completely average players that have been part of all the losing are the difference makers going forward. They haven't been difference makers the last 4 years and wouldn't make the slightest difference to are win loss record next year. Neither are players you can lean on to make a difference.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,519
Reaction score
21,571
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
You know what's hilarious about all the complaining around here?

There's an alternate timeline where they resign Allen and Murphy and those same people would be saying "It's a multi year rebuild. It's going to take some time to turn it around" etc etc. People who were saying exactly that 2 months ago are now absolutely enraged because we didn't resign these two.

I do not understand how they think 2 completely average players that have been part of all the losing are the difference makers going forward. They haven't been difference makers the last 4 years and wouldn't make the slightest difference to are win loss record next year. Neither are players you can lean on to make a difference.
As to the bolded, who cares? You do realize they would also be able to make a difference in 2024 and 2025, right? No, you don't, because that would dent your narrative. And, laughably now they're JAGs that never, ever made a difference and can never, ever be leaned on to make a difference. Mouth. Of. Sauron. Had we re-signed them, they'd be savvy signings that are absolutely young guns that will help us in the future. Dude, you twist and turn more than a mountain highway.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,332
Reaction score
37,831
Location
UK
As to the bolded, who cares? You do realize they would also be able to make a difference in 2024 and 2025, right? No, you don't, because that would dent your narrative. And, laughably now they're JAGs that never, ever made a difference and can never, ever be leaned on to make a difference. Mouth. Of. Sauron. Had we re-signed them, they'd be savvy signings that are absolutely young guns that will help us in the future. Dude, you twist and turn more than a mountain highway.

How did they help us the last 4 years? Both of them missed a **** tonne of games.

Signing average players to big money deals that did nothing to help us in the past, have not been reliable and have never been difference makers just because they might get better and they are still young is peak Steve Keim.

Nothing has been more amusing this offseason than watching guys who hated Keim and begged for him to get fired arguing that we should be doing exactly what Steve Keim would do. Let's hope for the best, Kyler will make it back early and be great right away, lets sign a bunch of aging sticking plaster vets to big FA deals and make a push for it, we can do it this year, it's a weak NFC and if we scrape into the playoffs anything can happen.

We should get some WWSKD t-shirts made up.
 

Syracusecards

DA's pass went that way
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Posts
4,198
Reaction score
4,220
What’s in a name? EVERYTHING.

Yeah. It’s too easy. And he’s gonna see the field again at some point next year if we’re starting Wet Napkin opening day with Gimpy Shorty still on IR until God knows when.
And when the Blough breaks, the cradle will fall. Down will come #BirdCity, the joke of Football.
 
Last edited:

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,081
Reaction score
14,607
Location
Plainfield, Il.
You've accepted a 3-4 year rebuild before we hope to be good? Glad one of us can...
If done right it won’t take 4 years. We’ve watched Keim put his fingers in the dyke and then using bandaids when he ran out of fingers.
Look at what we watched this year. Look at this roster. Look at each position room. This team is decimated. 4-13 Stout…4-13. Don’t blame the new guys for this. You want to see moves that can assure us 5-6 wins? Why?

Let’s be clear. I don’t like where we are. But I’ve come to grips with where we are and how to move on from here.
It appears you’d be happy to retain Murphy and Allen. On top of that this team would have to mortgage the next 5 years of cap space to field a team that MIGHT be competitive.
This strategy should have happened the year Arians retired. But we continued to sign aging players that were coming back from injuries.
Signing guys like Watts and Green when we could have used that money to sign a couple of quality linemen.

I want to be the team next year that
has several high draft picks and a bunch of salary cap. Show improvement in 2024 and be ready to go big time in free agency.

I want us to be the 2022 Bears or the 2021 Lions. As bad as both of those teams were WE WERE JUST AS BAD THIS YEAR with a roster many believed we were going to the playoffs. I wasn’t fooled. I predicted 5-6 wins.

I’m not going to be fooled to think anything we did this year would make us a playoff contender. And 7-10 doesn’t excite me.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,434
Reaction score
27,650
Location
Gilbert, AZ
If done right it won’t take 4 years. We’ve watched Keim put his fingers in the dyke and then using bandaids when he ran out of fingers.
Look at what we watched this year. Look at this roster. Look at each position room. This team is decimated. 4-13 Stout…4-13. Don’t blame the new guys for this. You want to see moves that can assure us 5-6 wins? Why?

Let’s be clear. I don’t like where we are. But I’ve come to grips with where we are and how to move on from here.
It appears you’d be happy to retain Murphy and Allen. On top of that this team would have to mortgage the next 5 years of cap space to field a team that MIGHT be competitive.
This strategy should have happened the year Arians retired. But we continued to sign aging players that were coming back from injuries.
Signing guys like Watts and Green when we could have used that money to sign a couple of quality linemen.

I want to be the team next year that
has several high draft picks and a bunch of salary cap. Show improvement in 2024 and be ready to go big time in free agency.

I want us to be the 2022 Bears or the 2021 Lions. As bad as both of those teams were WE WERE JUST AS BAD THIS YEAR with a roster many believed we were going to the playoffs. I wasn’t fooled. I predicted 5-6 wins.

I’m not going to be fooled to think anything we did this year would make us a playoff contender. And 7-10 doesn’t excite me.
You must be great fun at parties
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,332
Reaction score
37,831
Location
UK
If done right it won’t take 4 years. We’ve watched Keim put his fingers in the dyke and then using bandaids when he ran out of fingers.
Look at what we watched this year. Look at this roster. Look at each position room. This team is decimated. 4-13 Stout…4-13. Don’t blame the new guys for this. You want to see moves that can assure us 5-6 wins? Why?

Let’s be clear. I don’t like where we are. But I’ve come to grips with where we are and how to move on from here.
It appears you’d be happy to retain Murphy and Allen. On top of that this team would have to mortgage the next 5 years of cap space to field a team that MIGHT be competitive.
This strategy should have happened the year Arians retired. But we continued to sign aging players that were coming back from injuries.
Signing guys like Watts and Green when we could have used that money to sign a couple of quality linemen.

I want to be the team next year that
has several high draft picks and a bunch of salary cap. Show improvement in 2024 and be ready to go big time in free agency.

I want us to be the 2022 Bears or the 2021 Lions. As bad as both of those teams were WE WERE JUST AS BAD THIS YEAR with a roster many believed we were going to the playoffs. I wasn’t fooled. I predicted 5-6 wins.

I’m not going to be fooled to think anything we did this year would make us a playoff contender. And 7-10 doesn’t excite me.

It's going to take 1 year.

We can easily go into 2024 with $100m of cap space and still retain Hump and Budda. If we trade them too we can add a boat load more.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,081
Reaction score
14,607
Location
Plainfield, Il.
It's going to take 1 year.

We can easily go into 2024 with $100m of cap space and still retain Hump and Budda. If we trade them too we can add a boat load more.
Brit, I know you get beat up a lot in here. I think mainly because your attempt to justify moves or color a rosier picture.
There appears to be a number of people that believe keeping Murphy and Allen and signing one or two free agents would make us competitive.
They read we have 34m in cap space but forget we only have 30 players on the roster.
I’m going to continue to compare us to the Bears who trade Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith for a boatload of picks. Now THERE’S impact players. They gave up All that, and more, and won ONE LESS GAME than us. We had a Cardinal roster who many believed was a playoff team.
I count at least 9 players we would need to be competitive this year and that wouldn’t take into account any injuries depth to replace injured players.
We need Two DL, and edge rusher, at LEAST 1 CB, a guard, a center, a rb, a non dwarf Wr and a Qb for at least half or more of the season.
But hey, let’s go out a spend money on a Jordan Phillips who we are still paying. Or a cb who didn’t play one game for two years. Or a center who should have decided to retire two years ago and we’re still paying. And even the great JJ Watt who gave us 1 1/2 years and we’re STILL paying while winning 4 games this year. All the while trying to convince this fan base we were a playoff team.
Some like to blast people for their point of view. I said a while back I would not because truth is one way or another we are all right and we are all wrong.
 
Last edited:

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
89,274
Reaction score
62,693
Brit, I know you get beat up a lot in here. I think mainly because your attempt to justify moves or color a rosier picture.
There appears to be a number of people that believe keeping Murphy and Allen and signing one or two free agents would make us competitive.
They read we have 34m in cap space but forget we only have 30 players on the roster.
I’m going to continue to compare us to the Bears who trade Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith for a boatload of picks. Now THERE’S impact players. They gave up All that, and more, and won ONE LESS GAME than us. We had a Cardinal roster who many believed was a playoff team.
I count at least 9 players we would need to be competitive this year and that wouldn’t take into account any injuries depth to replace injured players.
We need Two DL, and edge rusher, at LEAST 1 CB, a guard, a center, a rb, a non dwarf Wr and a Qb for at least half or more of the season.
But hey, let’s go out a spend money on a Jordan Phillips who we are still paying. Or a cb who didn’t play one game for two years. Or a center who should have decided to retire two years ago and we’re still paying. And even the great JJ Watt who gave us 1 1/2 years and we’re STILL paying while winning 4 games this year. All the while trying to convince this fan base we were a playoff team.
Some like to blast people for their point of view. I said a while back I would not because truth is one way or another we are all right and we are all wrong.
You are projecting so many stupid arguments on other posters’ POV that a post like this is basically trolling.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
21,332
Reaction score
37,831
Location
UK
Brit, I know you get beat up a lot in here. I think mainly because your attempt to justify moves or color a rosier picture.
There appears to be a number of people that believe keeping Murphy and Allen and signing one or two free agents would make us competitive.
They read we have 34m in cap space but forget we only have 30 players on the roster.
I’m going to continue to compare us to the Bears who trade Khalil Mack and Roquan Smith for a boatload of picks. Now THERE’S impact players. They gave up All that, and more, and won ONE LESS GAME than us. We had a Cardinal roster who many believed was a playoff team.
I count at least 9 players we would need to be competitive this year and that wouldn’t take into account any injuries depth to replace injured players.
We need Two DL, and edge rusher, at LEAST 1 CB, a guard, a center, a rb, a non dwarf Wr and a Qb for at least half or more of the season.
But hey, let’s go out a spend money on a Jordan Phillips who we are still paying. Or a cb who didn’t play one game for two years. Or a center who should have decided to retire two years ago and we’re still paying. And even the great JJ Watt who gave us 1 1/2 years and we’re STILL paying while winning 4 games this year. All the while trying to convince this fan base we were a playoff team.
Some like to blast people for their point of view. I said a while back I would not because truth is one way or another we are all right and we are all wrong.

Yeah the picture regarding cap space this year is far worse than people think. $25m is really $17m with the draft pool. Had we signed Allen and Murphy to the same heavily weighted deals they got that would be down to $7m (and $30m off next year).

What can you do with $7m? And we still need a punter and long snapper at bare min. Probably still need to sign at least 5 cheap vets.

Zero chance of big signings this year. But this year was already dead.

Next year we can have a tonne of draft capital and cap space depending how Monti plays the draft.
 

JohnnyCakes

Alpha Male
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Posts
3,740
Reaction score
2,819
Location
Phoenix
You know what's hilarious about all the complaining around here?

There's an alternate timeline where they resign Allen and Murphy and those same people would be saying "It's a multi year rebuild. It's going to take some time to turn it around" etc etc. People who were saying exactly that 2 months ago are now absolutely enraged because we didn't resign these two.

I do not understand how they think 2 completely average players that have been part of all the losing are the difference makers going forward. They haven't been difference makers the last 4 years and wouldn't make the slightest difference to are win loss record next year. Neither are players you can lean on to make a difference.
Please stop making sense! You killing the irrational buzzkill right now!
 
Top