For Those Questioning Reiman’s Value

[Zeem_Freeze]

Oh no he doesnt. In fact, McBride needs to stop that hurdling crap too. It looks cool, its exciting,,,yippeee...but it exposes him to serious injury.
Its bad enough Trey does it. We certainly should not be encouraging Tip to do it as well.

I don't have any stats on it, but I've seen more injuries when someone is connected to the ground vs. airborne.

 

[kerouac9]

I will admit that it thr defense is as advertised, he should get more opportunities. I would put the over / at 22.5

Targets or receptions?

 

[Chopper0080]

You CAN pass to him. No one will expect it. But that’s not his forte. He is primarily a blocker, and a darn good one.

The point is he has to be a better blocker than an offensive linemen if they aren’t going to throw to him. Otherwise, he is just a small 6th OL.

 

[Chopper0080]

It’s like having a LeatherMan just to use the screwdriver part. If that’s all you are going to use, probably should have just bought a screwdriver.

 

[Chopper0080]

Tip Reiman had 6 receptions on 7 targets for 37 yards and one first down. His ADoT was 1.7.

He played 450 offensive snaps and ran 103 routes.

Elijah Higgins played 411 offensive snaps and got 24 targets resulting in 10 first downs and two TDs.

Honestly, the routes run is my biggest issue. He needs to balance that out more to be a two way TE. The targets and receptions are less important to me because he can’t control not being thrown to.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

It’s like having a LeatherMan just to use the screwdriver part. If that’s all you are going to use, probably should have just bought a screwdriver.

except sometimes you need 6 screw drivers because 5 isn't cutting it - and trust me - petzing loves using 6 screwdrivers

 

[oaken1]

I don't have any stats on it, but I've seen more injuries when someone is connected to the ground vs. airborne.

That is strictly a numbers thing. Because guys are coached to not go airborn.

 

[oaken1]

Honestly, the routes run is my biggest issue. He needs to balance that out more to be a two way TE. The targets and receptions are less important to me because he can’t control not being thrown to.

That's all on Petzing. Tip has shown he can run routes, get open, and make the catch. When that's what the play calls for.
But it's tough...he has to fight his way from being the fourth or fifth option to being the third or fourth. Hard to do when the ball ain't coming your way.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

think of tip as a lineman who can catch if need be

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Targets or receptions?

Ooh now we are getting crazy.

I will bump it to 25.5 targets.

 

[Russ Smith]

He’s either gotta be a better blocker than giving snaps to a 3rd or fourth OT or he has to occasionally run credible routes.

I’d rather give developmental snaps to Conner or whomever on the edge than play a TE you can’t pass to.

Well the counter to that is if you're playing an extra lineman unless he lines up eligible, and reports, we can't throw him the ball so it gives them an extra defender against the run because they know we're not throwing to Conner or whoever the 6th lineman is. In certain situations absolutely extra lineman on short yarsd for example all for it.

But in our base lineup IMO part of the reason we're so good at running the ball is simple math. Run game is typically 11 on 9 the offense only has 9 blockers the RB and QB don't block. But for us, because Kyler is such a good runner it's usually 10 on 9 because they have to account for Kyler. Reiman when he doesn't get a penalty is often the guy that springs the RB for a good gain.

I don't think he'll ever be a really good receiver I just don't think he's nimble enough to do that but he is a guy I hope we use more

 

[Russ Smith]

Value is relative, especially in the light of draft capital spent. Blocking TEs / Full backs are usually rounds 5-7.

He is the check down option on play action. That's it.

He basically needs to be a top 5 blocking TE in the league to justify a 3ed round pick.

We picked him too early absolutely. But that's done now so I think I just judge him on the now not when we picked him.

 

[kerouac9]

Well the counter to that is if you're playing an extra lineman unless he lines up eligible, and reports, we can't throw him the ball so it gives them an extra defender against the run because they know we're not throwing to Conner or whoever the 6th lineman is. In certain situations absolutely extra lineman on short yarsd for example all for it.

But in our base lineup IMO part of the reason we're so good at running the ball is simple math. Run game is typically 11 on 9 the offense only has 9 blockers the RB and QB don't block. But for us, because Kyler is such a good runner it's usually 10 on 9 because they have to account for Kyler. Reiman when he doesn't get a penalty is often the guy that springs the RB for a good gain.

I don't think he'll ever be a really good receiver I just don't think he's nimble enough to do that but he is a guy I hope we use more

Yes. Obviously a sixth lineman would report as eligible.

 

[oaken1]

This is wonderful.

Look at us Cardinals fans!!

Here we sit...one week into pre season....and today our hottest debate is how much will our TE2 affect our passing game this year.

It's a testament to the work our staff has done the past couple years.

We are having this discussion and I haven't seen anybody suggest taking targets away from HiggyBear aka TE2.5

We have come a long way Birdgang

 

[BACH]

6 to 30 isn’t dramatic?!?

Not IMO.

TEs are one of the hardest positions to adjust to in the NFL. You see some TEs making an early impact, but they are all receiving TE. Learning the blocking scheme is harder than the passing tree and TEs asked to do both do not make an immediate impact. McBride and Kelce hardly played as rookies. Kittle had 400 yards in his first 15 games as TE1 in a short passing game scheme and then clicked in the last game of the season and forward.

Kelce went from 0 to 87 targets from rookie to 2nd year player.
McBride went from 39 to 109 targets from rookie to 2nd year player.
Kittle went from 63 to 136 targets from rookie to 2nd year player.

Reiman came in as a blocking TE from a run heavy college team being asked to be a TE2 in a run-heavy 12 scheme. The coaches wanted him to focus on the blocking first because that is his primary job.

Reiman also came in as having the 2nd highest RAS score by any TE ever recorded at the combine (Only Pitts scored higher). Meaning that the athletic tool-set is there. Whether he is incapable of using that tool-set or the coaches decided not to utilize him in the passing game because he wasn't ready we do not know. BUT! Given the low number of targets and the fact that he was told to focus on the run game first, all indications are the latter of the two.

We know that he has worked the entire off-season on adopting the passing game better. We have rumors from the closed practices that he is being incorporated more into the passing game.

Based on all this. 30 is not dramatic at all IMO. I could easily see Reiman getting 30-45 receptions. I'm not saying he's an All-pro based on this. Just that he's much better than his numbers and usage suggest.

 

[BACH]

i think Reiman has to catch just enough passes to be taken seriously by the defense. Even if its a 5 yard dump off where he clobbers some DB who comes to tackle him and he gets 8 plus.

I pointed this out after a couple of games last season. When defenses really took him serious it was not for his receiving capabilities, but because his short routes also made him serve as lead for Kyler runs.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

tip runs a 4.64 and can block his ass off - this is valuable for a run first offense - if higgins could block like tip we wouldn't throw him the ball as much either

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

We picked him too early absolutely. But that's done now so I think I just judge him on the now not when we picked him.

Fair. At least he's not Chad Williams

 

[AZ Native]

We picked him too early absolutely. But that's done now so I think I just judge him on the now not when we picked him.

Yeah, that how it works. After he is picked it is more important how he fits is, rather than the round he was picked in. That is irrelevant. Move on.

 

[PDXChris]

The point is he has to be a better blocker than an offensive linemen if they aren’t going to throw to him. Otherwise, he is just a small 6th OL.

Except he can go down field to block.

 

[BACH]

The point is he has to be a better blocker than an offensive linemen if they aren’t going to throw to him. Otherwise, he is just a small 6th OL.

To expect an O-Lineman, let alone a back-up OL is capable to lay these blocks that Reiman is making in open space is not realistic.

Read my earlier post for details

 

[Dayman]

I like Reiman as long as he keeps the penalties down. He had 7 last year as a TE2, with 4 of them having a serious impact in that Vikings game. That can't happen.

 

[oaken1]

I like Reiman as long as he keeps the penalties down. He had 7 last year as a TE2, with 4 of them having a serious impact in that Vikings game. That can't happen.

Agree.
I understand many of the penalties..the kid is young..trying to prove himself...and the system asks/demands a lot from his position.
But he is not a rookie now. He has proven he belongs at this level. Now he just needs to define his role.
I think he will do better this season

 

[cardsfanmd]

He’s either gotta be a better blocker than giving snaps to a 3rd or fourth OT or he has to occasionally run credible routes.

I’d rather give developmental snaps to Conner or whomever on the edge than play a TE you can’t pass to.

Good call. Almost reminds me of all the crying and complaining over what a bad pick McBride was after his first year too.

 

[BACH]

Good call. Almost reminds me of all the crying and complaining over what a bad pick McBride was after his first year too.

Well. At least he didn’t make up facts like when he said the MHJ will never be elite because ALL star WRs are good from day 1.