ESPN Insider suggests....fasten your seat belts

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,852
Reaction score
61,867
OKC's plan should be to sign them to extensions as soon as possible if this "will sign for less money" is true. Because once either one or both become restricted, they will have to match possible max money.

do you guys really think Ibaka's going to get a Max deal? I think at best he's gonna get what Nene got, but probably a little less. somewhere around 5 years, 60 million bucks... and that's only if there's a bunch of teams with salary cap room during his given FA period.
 

SweetD

Next Up
Supporting Member
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Posts
9,865
Reaction score
173
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I might see this work but most likely not.
#1 OKC is a small market team even more so than Phoenix
#2 They are already have their big 2 and Ibaka is needed more than Harden's scoring
#3 You can still pick up a great shooter in this years draft (With the Suns Pick)
#4 If they resign Maynor then less of a need for a playmaker like Harden off the bench
#5 The Suns would have to take back some dead salary back like Collison/Perkins
#6 If they game Ibaka just his 2.2 Million this year and the qualifying next year they could go out and sign a good free agent six man.

But I don't see this happening until after next year and by then Nash might be done.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,044
Reaction score
14,748
Location
Round Rock, TX
do you guys really think Ibaka's going to get a Max deal? I think at best he's gonna get what Nene got, but probably a little less. somewhere around 5 years, 60 million bucks... and that's only if there's a bunch of teams with salary cap room during his given FA period.

Yes. I believe he's going to only get better and some team will throw a max deal at him.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,044
Reaction score
14,748
Location
Round Rock, TX
we'll see, but i think you're wrong.

Why? Do you think he's hit his ceiling? I think his EXTENSION that OKC might offer might be up the alley of what you're saying (Nene), but if he decides to not take that deal, he almost certainly will get offered more.
 

SweetD

Next Up
Supporting Member
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Posts
9,865
Reaction score
173
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I can see Ibaka getting $11 ~ $15 million a year easly. Just look at Jordan in LAC, bigmen are allways overpaid for potential. With the new CBA in place it will cost them even more if they kept everyone.

You are going to see alot of deals made just to get in line for the new CBA.

2011 CBA: Teams pay $1 for every $1 their salary is above the luxury-tax threshold in 2011-12 and 2012-13. Starting in 2012-13, teams pay an incremental tax that increases with every $5 million above the tax threshold ($1.50, $1.75, $2.50, $3.25, etc.). Teams that are repeat offenders (paying tax at least four out of the past five seasons) have a tax that is higher still -- $1 more at each increment ($2.50, $2.75, $3.50, $4.25, etc.).
Who benefits? I'll tell you which teams don't benefit -- the perennial taxpayers, like the Lakers and Mavericks. When the league was unable to negotiate a hard cap, they settled for the next best thing -- a more punitive luxury tax that will make teams think twice before committing to a higher payroll. For example, the Lakers' tax bill in 2011 (when the tax was dollar-for-dollar) was about $19.9 million. Under the new system, being that far over the tax line would cost them $44.68 million. If they were a repeat offender (paying tax at least four of the previous five years) they would owe $64.58 million!
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,852
Reaction score
61,867
Why? Do you think he's hit his ceiling? I think his EXTENSION that OKC might offer might be up the alley of what you're saying (Nene), but if he decides to not take that deal, he almost certainly will get offered more.

i just don't see his game progressing all that much more. he's pretty limited offensively right now and it's not like he's going to be able to develop that game with OKC's Big 3 getting the majority of the touches. and if he doesn't show that kind of ability before he hits FA, people aren't going to pay him for it.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,044
Reaction score
14,748
Location
Round Rock, TX
i just don't see his game progressing all that much more. he's pretty limited offensively right now and it's not like he's going to be able to develop that game with OKC's Big 3 getting the majority of the touches. and if he doesn't show that kind of ability before he hits FA, people aren't going to pay him for it.

Disagree, but only because in today's NBA, there is a tendency to overpay, especially big men. Will the new CBA change that? I certainly hope so, but there's nothing that refutes that yet.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,852
Reaction score
61,867
I can see Ibaka getting $11 ~ $15 million a year easly. Just look at Jordan in LAC, bigmen are allways overpaid for potential.

but DeAndre only got a contract for 10 million per year... so yeah, I can see Ibaka getting a little more at like 11 that Nene got, but it's a HUGE jump to go from 11 per year to 15 million.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,852
Reaction score
61,867
Disagree, but only because in today's NBA, there is a tendency to overpay, especially big men. Will the new CBA change that? I certainly hope so, but there's nothing that refutes that yet.

what in the world would make you think he'd get more then Nene on the open market, especially with the new CBA? Nene was already the rebounder he was and had the much more polished offensive game. Ibaka's a better defender, but we all know that for some reason in this league, points are put at a premium.

can you name me another player who's pedigree is as limited as Ibaka who's gotten anything close to a Max deal that you think he's going to get on the open market?
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
84,533
Reaction score
33,328
i just don't see his game progressing all that much more. he's pretty limited offensively right now and it's not like he's going to be able to develop that game with OKC's Big 3 getting the majority of the touches. and if he doesn't show that kind of ability before he hits FA, people aren't going to pay him for it.

He'll never be a great scorer but he seems to add something every offseason. In the finals at least twice we saw a pumpfake and drive to the rim for a layup dunk, something he couldn't do before. He's improved his jumper immensely etc. he's not a great player but he keeps getting better.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
He's definitely a #1, just not good enough to be the #1 on a championship team. He's a notch below the rarified air of James/Durant/Rose, or of Duncan/Bryant if you go back a few years.

Yup.

Ill take it one step further. I think he is D Wade without the opportunity.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
Oh man he said he wanted to stay in OKC a year before FA????!!!?? Well lets just shut down all conversation then.

Some people are so thick.

Lets bet. Either Harden leaves to be the star on his own team after 2013 or they decide they would rather keep him, pay him, and trade Westbrook. They need to keep Ibaka and cant pay everybody.

They will get smacked by the Heat again next year in the Finals (if they get there) and then be forced to address their contracts which they will have to do. Cant keep everyone happy.

I have not doubt James wants to stay there today and is saying al the right things to get the money he can from his current team. But to think that is a be all end all and makes this conversation moot is silly, as their a re alot of moving parts in place and over a year beofre FA hits.

FWIW Harden tweeted "He didnt know who to trust this weekend" ....could be a woman.....or could be OKC FO leaking his name in trade talks after a poor finals. Who knows. All I know is this doesnt end with all of these guys getting max contracts and walking off into the sunset.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,224
Reaction score
3,818
i think from a FO standpoint, Harden is the odd man out, pay ibaka first. Ibaka has to improve his outside jumper and im sure he will.

Harden showed a very very poor finals, im sure he and his agent know that and will probably have to take his game somewhere else if the thunder pay ibaka first.
 

SweetD

Next Up
Supporting Member
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Posts
9,865
Reaction score
173
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Harden is a good player and I think could be a #1 or #2 on any team. The problem is the Thunder already have a #1 and #2. I think there could be a possibility of Thurnder trading Westbrook, in a year, if Harden develops even more. But the Thunder could also be thinking lets rip the band aid off now and see if we can get a solid PG/Upgrade at C/dump Perkins/Re-sign Ibaka. I think if they can do all three they have a deal other than that they hold off one more year before making a move.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,852
Reaction score
61,867
Harden is a good player and I think could be a #1 or #2 on any team. The problem is the Thunder already have a #1 and #2. I think there could be a possibility of Thurnder trading Westbrook, in a year, if Harden develops even more. But the Thunder could also be thinking lets rip the band aid off now and see if we can get a solid PG/Upgrade at C/dump Perkins/Re-sign Ibaka. I think if they can do all three they have a deal other than that they hold off one more year before making a move.

man... i really think people are under-valuing Westbrook. The guy is probably one of the top ten players in the game right now and I don't think he's going anywhere. my guess? they get Harden signed to a deal around 12-13 per year, let Ibaka ride it out for a couple seasons and eventually amnesty Perkins in 2015 when he's gonna be due to make 9 million.

with both Ibaka and Harden not even able to reach FA until 2015, I just don't see any way shape or form that OKC has an inclination to rip "the band-aid" off now.

They've steadily made progress every season the last three years like any eventual champion does. First year, lost a tough first round series as an 8 seed. Second year, lost in the Conference Finals and in year three, they lost in The Finals. makes me think they're at least a year away from making any major move. making one now just seems like panic.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
do you guys really think Ibaka's going to get a Max deal? I think at best he's gonna get what Nene got, but probably a little less. somewhere around 5 years, 60 million bucks... and that's only if there's a bunch of teams with salary cap room during his given FA period.
Ibaka will probably get the max. He may not be a huge threat offensively, even though his jumper has improved a lot but the difference he makes on defense is HUGE.

Other than Dwight Howard, I don't think anyone else changes the way an opposing offense runs like Ibaka does. Even when he's not getting blocks, he's altering shots, changing shots etc.

Offenses game plan against Ibaka. I may be wrong, but I think he's well deserving of the max.
 
Last edited:

SweetD

Next Up
Supporting Member
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Posts
9,865
Reaction score
173
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I am with you I see at least another year before major moves, but I still leave the door open. We haven't seen what the Thunder's front office is going to do.

Also I agree Westbrook is on the level of Wade/Rose, I am just not to clear on how this new CBA is going to allow multiple stars/max contracts on teams.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,852
Reaction score
61,867
Ibaka will probably get the max. He may not be a huge threat offensively, even though his jumper has improved a lot but the difference he makes on defense is HUGE.

Other than Dwight Howard, I don't think anyone else changes the way an opposing offense runs other than Dwight Howard. Even when he's not getting blocks, he's altering shots, changing shots etc.

Offenses game plan against Ibaka. I may be wrong, but I think he's well deserving of the max.

that's just it tho. Ibaka is a FANASTIC shot-blocker and as decent one-on-one defender but as a PF, his rebounding numbers at 7.5 per aren't impressive. Howard is a full forced beast... one on one defender, shot-blocker and rebounder extraordinare... and scores 20-22 ppg. That's why he's a Max player IMO. I just don't think Ibaka changes the game that much which is why he won't get that type of money.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
84,533
Reaction score
33,328
I am with you I see at least another year before major moves, but I still leave the door open. We haven't seen what the Thunder's front office is going to do.

Also I agree Westbrook is on the level of Wade/Rose, I am just not to clear on how this new CBA is going to allow multiple stars/max contracts on teams.

Someone on a UCLA board said(and I didn't check if true) that if OKC had won, OKC's key guys are the youngest core on a team (scoring basically)to win the finals since Portland in 77 where they had 24, 24, 23 and 23 for their top 4. Of course one of those 4 was Walton before all the foot injuries but it points out how difficult it is for a young team to win the first time they get to the finals. Walton would have probably done it often too as the guy pointed out they were 50-10 in the games he played the next year when the foot problems really started to derail his career.

So by losing they basically did what just about every young team does that gets that far for the first time.

Getting back is the key.
 

SunsTzu

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Posts
4,789
Reaction score
1,494
I don't agree. Harden is willing to work with OKC to stay on the team. Money will not be the deciding factor.

Any chance you still feel this way?

Harden, 23, recently turned down a four-year offer worth about $52 million, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. Harden, last season's Sixth Man of the Year, has been pushing for a maximum contract extension of four years, $60 million.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--j...to-negotiate-contract-extension-27571809.html

Harden is getting the max, whether it's with the Thunder or elsewhere.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
that's just it tho. Ibaka is a FANASTIC shot-blocker and as decent one-on-one defender but as a PF, his rebounding numbers at 7.5 per aren't impressive. Howard is a full forced beast... one on one defender, shot-blocker and rebounder extraordinare... and scores 20-22 ppg. That's why he's a Max player IMO. I just don't think Ibaka changes the game that much which is why he won't get that type of money.
Ibaka's rebounding numbers may be that low because they already have a decent rebounder in Perkins and a 6'10 guy like Durant who is clogging up much of the rebounds.

The only time you have to worry about a player's rebounding is far their rebounding is horrble (which Ibaka's is not) and if the team a bad rebounding team (which OKC is not)

That's why A'mare was always considered a bad rebounder because the Suns have always been a bad rebounding team.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,045
Reaction score
14,907
Ibaka's rebounding numbers may be that low because they already have a decent rebounder in Perkins and a 6'10 guy like Durant who is clogging up much of the rebounds.

The only time you have to worry about a player's rebounding is far their rebounding is horrble (which Ibaka's is not) and if the team a bad rebounding team (which OKC is not)

That's why A'mare was always considered a bad rebounder because the Suns have always been a bad rebounding team.

Disagree. Amare was considered a bad rebounder because the Suns failed to accomplish their goals and when that happens people tend to look for someone to blame. There is no way in the world a reasonable fan can look at Amare's situation and Amare's numbers and call him a bad rebounder. He could have been a better rebounder, he should have been a better rebounder but even still, he was a better than average rebounder for his position. That's what the numbers say.

Steve
 
Top