Drafting Andy Isabella over D.K. Metcalf... Damn!

[TJ]

This is not an Ayton vs. Doncic type screw up. This thread needs to chill out a bit.

Not a good comparison. Ayton is already Top-10, at worst, at his position with loads of growth potential and will be an all-star soon and likely all-NBA

Andy Isabella is literally contributing nothing to this team and doesnt look like he's going to be anything better than a WR4 on a contender. He could be cut next season.

You can make the argument for why, at the time, Ayton was the right pick, especially since Ayton and Doncic play different positions. With Andy/DK, DK is also a WR who many felt had more upside, but Keim/Kliff fell in love with speed like Al Davis.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes, it was bad. Still is. It’s aggravating, but it’s not a franchise-altering decision like Trubiscuit boy over Watson & Mahomes. Lets just move on.

agreed to all of this.

 

[football karma]

time to let it go...........

 

[Dr. Jones]

Not a good comparison. Ayton is already Top-10, at worst, at his position with loads of growth potential and will be an all-star soon and likely all-NBA

It compares because a top 5 pick can be a franchise altering selection.

A 2nd rounder or later rarely involves a player who changes the entire course of your franchise. Can they? Sure. But the odds are remarkably thin.

Calling Ayton a top 10 player at his position is like calling out the biggest coal deposit in the mountains after your civilization has come to the realization that coal is no longer a viable industry in your country.

It causes serious damage to the earth when you remove it and the sky when you burn it, while also killing every worker in the mines but damn man..... that's a lot of coal!


p.s. You cant think of one reason why Andy was the right pick, at the time, for us to make? C'mon dude.

 

[Solar7]

p.s. You cant think of one reason why Andy was the right pick, at the time, for us to make? C'mon dude.

Frankly, I really can't. Fitz was manning the slot, Kirk might be best in the slot... so we pick another slot WR?

I'm trying to let this stuff go, because we have a lot of positive to focus on right now, but this board drives me wild with the blind positivity sometimes. It was a head scratcher at the time and has proven so far to be nothing but objectively wrong.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Frankly, I really can't. Fitz was manning the slot, Kirk might be best in the slot... so we pick another slot WR?

At the time, Andy was the NCAA leader in yardage IIRC. 1st team All-American.
2nd to Jerry Jeudy for the Belitnikoff award.
Senior Bowl North Team MVP.

Quick google: https://www.underdogdynasty.com/201...otball-wr-biletnikoff-senior-bowl-nfl-combine


DK had HUGE injury concerns. 2 games in 2016. 12 games in 2017 and then only 7 in 2018 IIRC. And it was a neck injury in 2018. yeeesh.

DK was also a drop monster in college. Many sites listed his worst trait as his hands.

With all that being said...... I liked DK more for pure upside. But thought the combo of Andy & Hakeem was a perfect blend and that the risk/reward of someone like Butler falling to the 4th round made everything perfect in that draft.

 

[football karma]

DK Metcalf is proof that from time to time, workout warriors whose college production didn't match their measurables can actually turn into good NFL players......

 

[Finito]

It doesn't change the fact that we drafted a tiny, small school dude who had done nothing but put up garbage time points in college. The pick was bad. Many picks from Keim have been bad. He is less successful than most of his peers.

ok that’s great so tell me what you get by hanging on to this? I mean I just don’t get it. maybe if you cry enough about it you’ll wake up one day and Metcalf will be a Cardinal like in Big or Freaky Friday? Something like that?

 

[Finito]

At the time, Andy was the NCAA leader in yardage IIRC. 1st team All-American.
2nd to Jerry Jeudy for the Belitnikoff award.
Senior Bowl North Team MVP.

Quick google: https://www.underdogdynasty.com/201...otball-wr-biletnikoff-senior-bowl-nfl-combine


DK had HUGE injury concerns. 2 games in 2016. 12 games in 2017 and then only 7 in 2018 IIRC. And it was a neck injury in 2018. yeeesh.

DK was also a drop monster in college. Many sites listed his worst trait as his hands.

With all that being said...... I liked DK more for pure upside. But thought the combo of Andy & Hakeem was a perfect blend and that the risk/reward of someone like Butler falling to the 4th round made everything perfect in that draft.

Whaaaaaaaat you don’t say

 

[iLLmatiC]

ok that’s great so tell me what you get by hanging on to this? I mean I just don’t get it. maybe if you cry enough about it you’ll wake up one day and Metcalf will be a Cardinal like in Big or Freaky Friday? Something like that?

Not everyone thinks Keim is infallible like you do Fin

 

[iLLmatiC]

Not a good comparison. Ayton is already Top-10, at worst, at his position with loads of growth potential and will be an all-star soon and likely all-NBA

Andy Isabella is literally contributing nothing to this team and doesnt look like he's going to be anything better than a WR4 on a contender. He could be cut next season.

You can make the argument for why, at the time, Ayton was the right pick, especially since Ayton and Doncic play different positions. With Andy/DK, DK is also a WR who many felt had more upside, but Keim/Kliff fell in love with speed like Al Davis.

Not surprised to see a U of A alumni propping up Ayton like Weekend at Bernie's

 

[Finito]

Not everyone thinks Keim is infallible like you do Fin

I don’t but just tell me what the end game is. Tell me what you hope to accomplish even after a win crying about the 64th pick in last years draft.

I mean I’m just wondering

 

[Solar7]

ok that’s great so tell me what you get by hanging on to this? I mean I just don’t get it. maybe if you cry enough about it you’ll wake up one day and Metcalf will be a Cardinal like in Big or Freaky Friday? Something like that?

What @iLLmatiC said. I've been mad at Keim for years now and would prefer he was gone.

Now, I don't realistically think he will be gone, but I'm not going to let him off the hook until he does anything even moderately competent in the draft. I'm sick of trading/signing/drafting again positions we just invested assets in the year prior because he can't draft to save his life.

 

[Solar7]

I don’t but just tell me what the end game is. Tell me what you hope to accomplish even after a win crying about the 64th pick in last years draft.

I mean I’m just wondering

What's the end game to anything we do here? I don't work in the league, I'm here wasting time and having discussions with other fans.

 

[iLLmatiC]

What @iLLmatiC said. I've been mad at Keim for years now and would prefer he was gone.

Now, I don't realistically think he will be gone, but I'm not going to let him off the hook until he does anything even moderately competent in the draft. I'm sick of trading/signing/drafting again positions we just invested assets in the year prior because he can't draft to save his life.

Credit where it's due, he got us our 1QB

 

[Solar7]

Credit where it's due, he got us our 1QB

Picking #1 overall, though.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Picking #1 overall, though.

Plenty of #1s have busted and he had the balls to do it when he used a top 10 pick on a QB the year before.

 

[iLLmatiC]

I don’t but just tell me what the end game is. Tell me what you hope to accomplish even after a win crying about the 64th pick in last years draft.

I mean I’m just wondering

Yes but I see you in here defending the front office on every move, have some balance or don't, I don't care. Just know that not everyone thinks that Steve Keim is perfect with his moves. He has a lot to atone for, the list is long.

 

[Finito]

Yes but I see you in here defending the front office on every move, have some balance or don't, I don't care. Just know that not everyone thinks that Steve Keim is perfect with his moves. He has a lot to atone for, the list is long.

he’s also built us into a legit contender under the BA/Palmer years and had injuries not killed us who knows how that ends. We have rebuilt and by all accounts are headed in the right direction

Stay mad about the past all you want but I’m enjoying this direction we are headed.

 

[iLLmatiC]

he’s also built us into a legit contender under the BA/Palmer years and had injuries not killed us who knows how that ends. We have rebuilt and by all accounts are headed in the right direction

Stay mad about the past all you want but I’m enjoying this direction we are headed.

I'm not mad. I can acknowledge his success as well, you'll see a few posts above I give him credit on the Murray pick even though we drafted Rosen a year earlier. His drafting has left a lot to be desired for overall though.

 

[Solar7]

Plenty of #1s have busted and he had the balls to do it when he used a top 10 pick on a QB the year before.

I don't want to give him zero credit, but Kyler's not yet a Super Bowl winner or MVP. Of course he's in the right direction, so don't take this as a complaint. I just don't want to declare a QB with 6 wins under his belt a complete win yet. It took stones, that's for sure. And so far, so good.

he’s also built us into a legit contender under the BA/Palmer years and had injuries not killed us who knows how that ends. We have rebuilt and by all accounts are headed in the right direction

Stay mad about the past all you want but I’m enjoying this direction we are headed.

I don't feel we've "rebuilt" in a sustainable way. Things look reasonably bright... but we lost our 2x head coach of the year, haven't had a winning season in 5 years, are still picking in the top 10, and short of Kyler and maybe Budda, our under-25 talent is very questionable.

I'm not "mad" really, I just look at organizations with consistent success and struggle with a half decade of my life going back to what feels like Sun Devil Stadium era football.

 

[iLLmatiC]

I don't want to give him zero credit, but Kyler's not yet a Super Bowl winner or MVP. Of course he's in the right direction, so don't take this as a complaint. I just don't want to declare a QB with 6 wins under his belt a complete win yet. It took stones, that's for sure. And so far, so good.


I don't feel we've "rebuilt" in a sustainable way. Things look reasonably bright... but we lost our 2x head coach of the year, haven't had a winning season in 5 years, are still picking in the top 10, and short of Kyler and maybe Budda, our under-25 talent is very questionable.

I'm not "mad" really, I just look at organizations with consistent success and struggle with a half decade of my life going back to what feels like Sun Devil Stadium era football.

You can give him credit at least in saying he successfully drafted a true #1 QB, a lot of GM's have failed at this.

I think Keim lost his way when Arians left. I believe he's refocused.

 

[wit3card]

95 y vs 0 at the moment ... andy stinks it...

 

[Solar7]

You can give him credit at least in saying he successfully drafted a true #1 QB, a lot of GM's have failed at this.

I think Keim lost his way when Arians left. I believe he's refocused.

For sure, he gets credit for now. But I'm still cooling my jets on Murray for a minute here. He looked pretty bad for a half yesterday, and we looked lost. But let's not make this an anti-Murray thread or anything, I own the guy's jersey and I'm excited.

Let's hope Keim's grown.

 

[unseenaz]

Hindsight is fun, huh? No one wanted Metcalf, I remember the threads.