Devin Booker is the greatest player EVER in Suns history

Phrazbit

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One person argues "Barkley has no business being on the franchise's greatest list." However, Cheese says "refers to players while playing as Phoenix Suns.". Another person "Depends on the criteria you select". Another "All Time Greatest Suns player" Another person "In Sun's history?". Another one "Nash has the best resume but if you're talking about a moment in time," Another one "Sounds like part of your criteria is tenure length with the team.". Another asking "If you put it that way . If Durant brings home the prize does he qualify?". Another "I can’t put Barkley in the conversation. He was not here that long."

How many you want? Clearly I am not the only one unclear on the criteria. I even said myself that my answer would change depending on the criteria and who I am responding to and their criteria. How is that changing the discussion exactly?!?

So you going to accuse everyone else who is not clear of the criteria doing the same thing or is this your usual?

I am rather certain that no one is considering what these guys did on other teams.

The people who consider Barkley in the discussion think he did so much in his brief time that he is in the conversation.
 

Covert Rain

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I am rather certain that no one is considering what these guys did on other teams.

The people who consider Barkley in the discussion think he did so much in his brief time that he is in the conversation.
Gotcha. The point being is there clearly are multiple thoughts on criteria. The latest one "always been a Sun". I actually have no preference on criteria but depending on which of the criteria posters prefer? My choices would likely change.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm not limiting it to players who have only played for the Suns but it certainly pushes the needle considerably when one looks at what Devin Booker has accomplished with Phoenix. And the Suns have not done a good job surrounding him with talent in many of those seasons.
 

Covert Rain

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I'm not limiting it to players who have only played for the Suns but it certainly pushes the needle considerably when one looks at what Devin Booker has accomplished with Phoenix. And the Suns have not done a good job surrounding him with talent in many of those seasons.
That's why this is so subjective. There are so many factors. I mean, would Booker have already won a title if Ishbia took over years ago? If Isbhia was here during the Nash era would he have made money saving decisions like our last owner did? If you count what ownership didn't do for Book, you also have to do that for other player eras don't you?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Again are we talking greatest player to wear a Suns uniform? If so, yes and you are right Shaq should be in that discussion.

This just highlights my problem with the thread.
I feel like you’re the only one defining “greatest suns player” the way you are. Which is your right. But understand that it seems everyone else is operating under a different construct, which is also okay.

I mean, under your definition we also have to consider Vince Carter for the all suns team. What other washed up superstar played a minute in a suns uniform?

It would be like saying the suns greatest 6th man is Jamal Crawford instead of Dan majerle or Eddie Johnson.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That would considerably narrow the field since most players don't spend their entire career with one team.
He didn’t say it was a requirement. So it’s not a screen. He said it’s a factor. And I agree with him.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Well some people don’t even want to include Barkley because he wasn’t here long enough. So, there appears to be length of time, stage of career of player, was he drafted here or not or were they “mostly” here. It‘s all over the place.

I am cool with all the scenarios because it changes the list.
I think they just place a higher value on longevity.

It seems like you think people are using screens to get to the best player. I don’t think that’s it. I think they’re placing values on different factors. Like I might place 80pts on longevity and someone else might place 20pts on longevity. The factor doesn’t automatically rule a player out, it just gets dialed up or dialed depending on the individual judge’s weighting.
 

Covert Rain

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I think they just place a higher value on longevity.

It seems like you think people are using screens to get to the best player. I don’t think that’s it. I think they’re placing values on different factors. Like I might place 80pts on longevity and someone else might place 20pts on longevity. The factor doesn’t automatically rule a player out, it just gets dialed up or dialed depending on the individual judge’s weighting.
Actually my criteria is more complicated. If you go back to my list I list Nash, Barkley, Booker. So, I didn’t include people that were not in the prime or at the end of their careers like Shaq and Vince. So even though I am factoring career, only in that scenario.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Actually my criteria is more complicated. If you go back to my list I list Nash, Barkley, Booker. So, I didn’t include people that were not in the prime or at the end of their careers like Shaq and Vince. So even though I am factoring career, only in that scenario.
Then I don’t understand your criteria (which again is fine). If you’re factoring in their non-suns career, but only sometimes, what other criteria has to occur for you to consider their nonSuns career?
 

Covert Rain

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Then I don’t understand your criteria (which again is fine). If you’re factoring in their non-suns career, but only sometimes, what other criteria has to occur for you to consider their nonSuns career?
When they are all great players for what they do at their position and there are no titles to differentiate them. I go to the career (like league MVPs, are they transformative players for teams that instantly make a team a contender) to determine my order. I think they are all great players so there has to be a differentiator.
 
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Lorenzo

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Marion was a fantastic regular season player but he folded like a tortilla in the playoffs. That’s just a fact.
He was Dallas’ best playoff perimeter defender by a mile and he got a lot of points in the paint on their title team. Marion is underrated in my opinion especially as a defender. In the mavericks title run Marion had to guard Kobe, KD, and lebron/wade. And he did very well.

The 05-08 suns teams were the most exciting teams to watch back in those days. I wish Dallas would have never let nash go. In my days of watching basketball I would rank nash, Booker, and amare in that order. With Booker set to pass nash one day.
 

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I think they just place a higher value on longevity.

It seems like you think people are using screens to get to the best player. I don’t think that’s it. I think they’re placing values on different factors. Like I might place 80pts on longevity and someone else might place 20pts on longevity. The factor doesn’t automatically rule a player out, it just gets dialed up or dialed depending on the individual judge’s weighting.
I hear drafted by Suns, longevity and not surrounding Booker with the needed quality players. Surprised no mention of Walter.

The Suns selected Davis with the fifth pick of the 1977 NBA Draft. He made an immediate impact, playing in 81 games and averaging 24.2 points per game in his first season. He won the 1978 NBA Rookie of the Year Award and earned second-team All-NBA honors. Over his first ten seasons, Davis averaged over 20 PPG six times and earned trips to six NBA All-Star Games.

Over his career, Davis averaged 18.9 points, 3.8 assists, and 3.0 rebounds per game. Davis was affectionately known as "The Greyhound" for his speedy style and sleek physical appearance. Suns broadcaster Al McCoy created many alternate nicknames for him, including "Sweet D," "The Candyman," and "The Man with the Velvet Touch." Davis is the Suns' all-time leading scorer with 15,666 points and is commonly understood as the best pure shooter in the history of the franchise.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I hear drafted by Suns, longevity and not surrounding Booker with the needed quality players. Surprised no mention of Walter.

The Suns selected Davis with the fifth pick of the 1977 NBA Draft. He made an immediate impact, playing in 81 games and averaging 24.2 points per game in his first season. He won the 1978 NBA Rookie of the Year Award and earned second-team All-NBA honors. Over his first ten seasons, Davis averaged over 20 PPG six times and earned trips to six NBA All-Star Games.

Over his career, Davis averaged 18.9 points, 3.8 assists, and 3.0 rebounds per game. Davis was affectionately known as "The Greyhound" for his speedy style and sleek physical appearance. Suns broadcaster Al McCoy created many alternate nicknames for him, including "Sweet D," "The Candyman," and "The Man with the Velvet Touch." Davis is the Suns' all-time leading scorer with 15,666 points and is commonly understood as the best pure shooter in the history of the franchise.
One of my all time favorite players.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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To all of you guys saying that Booker took us to the Finals - not really, it was Chris Paul.
This is simply untrue. First of all he was dealing with an injury for most of the Lakers series and was often more of a liability than helpful in that series.

He played very well in the Denver series, but we steamrolled them in 4 games.

We also went up 2-0 on the Clippers with CP out due to Covid. To be fair to CP he went off in game 6 to close out that series, but Devin went off in game one to get out to a lead.
 

AzStevenCal

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This is simply untrue. First of all he was dealing with an injury for most of the Lakers series and was often more of a liability than helpful in that series.

He played very well in the Denver series, but we steamrolled them in 4 games.

We also went up 2-0 on the Clippers with CP out due to Covid. To be fair to CP he went off in game 6 to close out that series, but Devin went off in game one to get out to a lead.
Agreed. Still, I don't believe we make the finals without CP3. But without Booker we probably fall short of the postseason.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Agreed. Still, I don't believe we make the finals without CP3. But without Booker we probably fall short of the postseason.
We certainly wouldn't have been in finals without either one of them. Booker didn't carry the team to the finals, but he certainly was at least a co-leader of getting us there.
 

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I don't think Booker is there yet. He still only has one All-NBA selection, which doesn't compare with Barkley and Nash winning MVPs, or multiple the All-NBA selections for Johnson (5x), Westphal (4x), Stoudemire (4x) or Kidd (3x).

Booker has several big playoff games, but he also has some elimination game stinkers too. I'm not yet convinced he's the #1 on a championship team, he's better as the #2 to a Chris Paul or Kevin Durant. The one thing you have to say about Barkley is that he was THE MAN when he was here, he was the unquestioned leader and superstar, and could elevate his game when he needed to.

1 Barkley (just one of those players who could impose his will on most games. Just not against Jordan or Olajuwon in the playoffs)
2 Nash (terrific, efficient offense, defensive liability)
3 K. Johnson (great offensive player, just not MVP level)
4 Booker (great offensive player, still creating his legacy)
5 Davis (smooth, consistant scorer)
6 Marion (the consumate complimentary player)
7 Westphal (can't rate him much higher because he wasn;t here as long as the others)
8 Kidd (we tend to forget how good he was)
9 Stoudamire (if he hadn't suffered the injuries he would be higher)
10 Hawkins (his lost some of his best years before joining the Suns)
Best of the rest - Paul, Nance, Chambers, C. Scott, D. Van Arsdale, Adams, Goodrich, Silas, Hornacek, Majerle, O'Neal)

YMMV
 

Phrazbit

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KJ and his hamstrings...

His stretch from 89-94 was brilliant basketball, one of the absolute best guards in the league at a time when the league was drenched in hall of fame true PGs. For 4 years he was, by far, the best player on a team winning 55 games a season and making some deep runs.

The way his legs betrayed him and the bad press after he retired I think make some forget how good he was. If his peak had lasted just a little bit longer he's in the hall of fame, probably should be anyway.

Looking more at what he accomplished, I might go Nash, KJ, Booker, Barkley, in that order.
 

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KJ was always behind Magic and Jordan when it came to All-NBA and up against players like Drexler, Payton, Stockton and Thomas. So being a 5-time All-NBA guard then is pretty impressive.

And if you recall his hamstring probles were eventually blamed on an undiagnosed sports hernia. From trying to lift Oliver Miller, no less.
 

Covert Rain

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KJ and his hamstrings...

His stretch from 89-94 was brilliant basketball, one of the absolute best guards in the league at a time when the league was drenched in hall of fame true PGs. For 4 years he was, by far, the best player on a team winning 55 games a season and making some deep runs.

The way his legs betrayed him and the bad press after he retired I think make some forget how good he was. If his peak had lasted just a little bit longer he's in the hall of fame, probably should be anyway.

Looking more at what he accomplished, I might go Nash, KJ, Booker, Barkley, in that order.
You know what kills me about KJ? I heard him in an interview talk about his hamstrings may not have had to be an issue with him at all if they had found the undiagnosed hernia he had been playing with for years which after the fact they think had much to do with his hamstring strains. His numbers would have been even more sick.
 

Covert Rain

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He signed an extension in 22, he is signed through 2028. I don't think he can extend again until 2026.
I won't be shocked if we don't win a title and he either doesn't finish out this contract or does finish it without extending so he can test the market.
 
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