Deandre Ayton facing 25 game suspension

[AzStevenCal]

I think there is a very real possibility that it's reduced to 20 to match some other penalties that have been handed out before, like have been mentioned previously in the thread. I know the rule is now 25 games but I could see the league coming to an agreement where they give a little to let the players union feel like their fight made a real difference. A 5 game reduction is only suspending him for the amount of games he would have gotten had he been popped last year, so I don't think it's unrealistic.

The players union fast tracked this for a reason. They feel there is something to argue, what that is though? We likely won't know unless it is reduced. If they can only fast track 2 things a year and this is 1, then there has to be something that makes them feel like their fight won't be in vain.

Maybe you're right, I really have no perspective on this. I've just decided to not worry about it one way or the other. I figure Ayton has a decade plus to make us forget this incident and hopefully he makes good use of his off time.

 

[WildBB]

Best case scenario. Ayton gets reduced to 10 games.

When he comes back, he has to come off the bench because the team is playing so well with Baynes and Kaminski at C.

I agree they're playing really well overall. Happy with Baynes, very solid. Pleasantly surprised.

 

[GatorAZ]

Maybe you're right, I really have no perspective on this. I've just decided to not worry about it one way or the other. I figure Ayton has a decade plus to make us forget this incident and hopefully he makes good use of his off time.

Little kids sometimes need to get in serious trouble to grow up. Watching your team play on a television has to be a pretty poopy feeling.

 

[Jake6233]

This team is 4-0 if he doesn’t get suspended which makes it all the more annoying.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

This team is 4-0 if he doesn’t get suspended which makes it all the more annoying.

Honestly, even if you only looked at it from the standpoint of improved depth it could have easily been the difference in the losses.

Of course Ayton is also our best offensive big man and 1 of only 2 that can guard a true big man along with Baynes. Losing his 18/11 on great efficiency has hurt this team very badly.

We might be a contender for a top 4 seed with Ayton out there.

 

[TJ]

Best case scenario. Ayton gets reduced to 10 games.

When he comes back, he has to come off the bench because the team is playing so well with Baynes and Kaminski at C.

I think 10 games is fair.

Ayton needs to start. Centers dont make good sixth men and he’s still the second best player on the team

 

[82CardsGrad]

Ayton is barely 21... I remain convinced he was the right pick for this team and can’t wait to see what he’s doing in the league when he’s 25/26 years old!

 

[Dr. Jones]

(psst - it’s called being capable of admitting when you’re wrong. Cheese is pretty good at it)

also I still think it’s too early to predict Doncic is the clear winner for a career

It's just a good natured ribbing. I still have hope for Ayton too. I was 50/50 on Ayton/Doncic at the time of the draft. I just vividly remember how strongly Cheese was against Doncic over Ayton.

Yeah he was definitely 100% on Ayton. I was too by draft time. But I didn’t think Doncic would be average. I expected him to be great too.

I think most of us were here. I did not think Doncic would be this good of a shooter.

I'm a huge Ayton fan and believed at the time he was the right pick. But its really hard to argue that now. Few if anyone would pick Ayton over Doncic today.

Doncic
29-pts 10-rebounds 7-ast 2-stl

Doncic isn’t doing anything that I didn’t believe he could do. I still wanted Ayton and I still don’t think we have seen anywhere near the best he has to offer. If Ayton becomes what he is absolutely capable of here will be a dominant center and the pairing with Booker will be outstanding.

Although I am still able to keep the perspective that this is still to early to call....... I wanted Doncic, would still want Doncic, and think Doncic has an MVP level future. He is, and was the future of the NBA. And I find it absolutely wild how many people on this board couldn't see it from the jump. Maybe it was the Phoenix/UofA ties, or the lack of data on the European game..... Not sure.

Ayton was, and still is, a defensive liability who continuously puts up stats that look pretty in the box score but had little effect on the actual outcome of the game. He has roughly 2 years to figure this out before things start to go downhill, but my pre-draft opinion still has serious merit IMO.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton was, and still is, a defensive liability who continuously puts up stats that look pretty in the box score but had little effect on the actual outcome of the game. He has roughly 2 years to figure this out before things start to go downhill, but my pre-draft opinion still has serious merit IMO.

Look I can't base anything off of one game. I can tell you thought that none of the above was true in the opening. He was altering shots left and right. He put up easy shots that are a little more scarce the last couple games. Again it was one game and now we have to wait 20 something more. However, he made a difference in the opener and I hope this "downtime" doesn't screw everything up.

 

[Mainstreet]

Although I am still able to keep the perspective that this is still to early to call....... I wanted Doncic, would still want Doncic, and think Doncic has an MVP level future. He is, and was the future of the NBA. And I find it absolutely wild how many people on this board couldn't see it from the jump. Maybe it was the Phoenix/UofA ties, or the lack of data on the European game..... Not sure.

Ayton was, and still is, a defensive liability who continuously puts up stats that look pretty in the box score but had little effect on the actual outcome of the game. He has roughly 2 years to figure this out before things start to go downhill, but my pre-draft opinion still has serious merit IMO.

Suns have wanted a center since they missed out on Kareem and David Robinson. Ayton can still be that franchise center.

It was not clear Doncic was the best player in the draft. Other teams agreed as he was drafted third in the 2018 draft.

 

[Covert Rain]

Suns have wanted a center since they missed out on Kareem and David Robinson. Ayton can still be that franchise center.

It was not clear Doncic was the best player in the draft. Other teams agreed as he was drafted third in the 2018 draft.

Not to mention there will be another Doncic type player more often in the draft than a legit center. Legit Centers are much harder to find.

 

[GatorAZ]

Suns have wanted a center since they missed out on Kareem and David Robinson. Ayton can still be that franchise center.

It was not clear Doncic was the best player in the draft. Other teams agreed as he was drafted third in the 2018 draft.

Yeah the Suns did. Should’ve been our first hint!

 

[Mainstreet]

Not to mention there will be another Doncic type player more often in the draft than a legit center. Legit Centers are much harder to find.

I think the Suns made the best decision based on the knowledge they had at the time of the draft.

Doncic was not a lock to be an NBA star any more than Ayton.

 

[Hoop Head]

Can we just get a Doncic thread to keep all of the 2nd guessing there so it doesn't invade every thread about Ayton?

 

[Covert Rain]

I think the Suns made the best decision based on the knowledge they had at the time of the draft.

Doncic was not a lock to be an NBA star any more than Ayton.

No but it was universally viewed that Doncic was NBA Ready out of the gate and would contribute right away. That usually isn't the case with most guys coming out of the draft. So, I am not sure it was about one or the other player and figuring out who "the lock" was as much as not passing up on a legit center who was the #1 player on most draft boards.

 

[SirStefan32]

I was a huge Doncic fan, but there was no guarantee that he would be as good as he is. I knew he would be good, but no reasonable person could have possibly known he would be this good. Ayton was a perfectly reasonable choice at #1. He is a huge dude with a jump shot, outstanding athleticism, and good inside game. Doncic, on the other hand was known to be a smart, versatile player with killer instinct.

Ayton had question marks- hard work, desire to improve, defense, basketball IQ. Doncic had question marks too- nobody knew that he was quick enough to pull off that step-back jumper and there was no guarantee he would be able to get into the paint and score on more athletic players. It was a crap shoot when it came to Doncic vs. Ayton. At the end of last year, I would have still taken Ayton, and I am maintaining that position. Doncic is exceeding everyone's expectations, but Ayton was not drafted for what he was then, or what he would be in one or two years. He was drafted for what he would be in five years.

Luka is probably my favorite player in the league right now, and he will probably end up having a better career, mainly due to his "it" factor. He just has "it" and Ayton does not. That said, I think it would be silly to write Ayton off at this point. If Ayton figures it out, he will be scary.

 

[GatorAZ]

Can we just get a Doncic thread to keep all of the 2nd guessing there so it doesn't invade every thread about Ayton?

Good idea because it’s something that’s never going away. We should keep the Luka stuff isolated from DA news.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We will be talking about this after these players are long retired. Or should I say you. I will probably be dead by then.

 

[Mainstreet]

James Jones reportedly doesn't have anything new on the Ayton suspension.


Kellan Olson‏Verified account @KellanOlson

James Jones said on @BurnsAndGambo he does not have an update on the appeal process for Deandre Ayton.

3:05 PM - 29 Oct 2019

 

[Krangodnzr]

Although I am still able to keep the perspective that this is still to early to call....... I wanted Doncic, would still want Doncic, and think Doncic has an MVP level future. He is, and was the future of the NBA. And I find it absolutely wild how many people on this board couldn't see it from the jump. Maybe it was the Phoenix/UofA ties, or the lack of data on the European game..... Not sure.

Ayton was, and still is, a defensive liability who continuously puts up stats that look pretty in the box score but had little effect on the actual outcome of the game. He has roughly 2 years to figure this out before things start to go downhill, but my pre-draft opinion still has serious merit IMO.

Doncic isnt a great a defender either.

You completely blow past mentioning any of Doncics warts. He was a very inefficient player last year.

And I liked Doncic a lot and think he is going to be really good.

 

[Mainstreet]

No but it was universally viewed that Doncic was NBA Ready out of the gate and would contribute right away. That usually isn't the case with most guys coming out of the draft. So, I am not sure it was about one or the other player and figuring out who "the lock" was as much as not passing up on a legit center who was the #1 player on most draft boards.

No argument there. Doncic was considered to be more NBA ready but that doesn't mean Ayton doesn't have the potential to be the better player once he develops.

Ayton's measurements and talent were off the chart... can't teach 7 foot.

It's not just whether a player is NBA ready but who is projected to have the better career. Ayton was considered to have the higher ceiling when he was drafted. It's not like the Suns tried to get cute with the pick. Most thought Ayton should go #1.

I'm not disputing Doncic is the better player now but this was also expected. Doncic could still be the better player or at some point in time Ayton could surpass him. Maybe they both will be great players in their own right.

 

[AzStevenCal]

who continuously puts up stats that look pretty in the box score but had little effect on the actual outcome of the game.

This is the part that I just don't get. What's it based on? If it's just because you think he gave it back on D, well, isn't that double dipping on your part given that you've already knocked him for his defense? Or is it that he put up those numbers in losses? And if that's it, isn't every single player on every single team an empty stats player every single time their team loses since their stats had little effect on the actual outcome of the game?

I do believe that some people have more value than their simple stats suggest and that the reverse is true and Ayton, at this stage of his career, probably isn't quite as valuable as his numbers would indicate. And if that's what you really mean, I'm okay with that. But for me, the "empty stats" label, no matter who it's applied to, is so vague and unsupportable that I find it difficult to give it any weight at all.

 

[TJ]

Ayton was, and still is, a defensive liability who continuously puts up stats that look pretty in the box score but had little effect on the actual outcome of the game. He has roughly 2 years to figure this out before things start to go downhill, but my pre-draft opinion still has serious merit IMO.

With that logic, Doncic also put up pretty stats in the box score that didn’t lead to much in the win column. Neither him nor Ayton made the playoffs, and Doncic had far more assets with which to work than Ayton. Plus, Doncic is a terrible defender, so I wouldn’t compare the two in that department. Most of your criticism about Ayton is applicable to Doncic.

I really don’t want to get into another Ayton v. Doncic debate with someone, but people behave as if we drafted Anthony Bennett, Joe Smith Or some other useless player with the #1 pick. Deandre Ayton is pretty f’ing good basketball player who had a historic rookie season for a center, and he has room to grow. Using your two-year window, it wouldn’t surprise me if Ayton had a leg-up on Doncic by then. Either way, Doncic is a good basketball player, as is Ayton as is Trae Young. It’s totally cool to have more than one player in the Top-5 of the draft be very good.

 

[Cheesebeef]

With that logic, Doncic also put up pretty stats in the box score that didn’t lead to much in the win column.

this is flat out ignoring actual facts. Both the Suns and Mavs were atrocious the previous season. Yet Luka came in and was impactful enough to pretty much move the needle singlehandedly to push the Mavs from a dreadful 24 wins to mediocre 33 wins. Aston joined another woeful team that won 22 games... that somehow won THREE LESS with him at 19 games. The Mavs didn't make the playoffs, but they became at least a tough spot and challenge for teams during the season. Ayton had so little impact that somehow, the Suns became an even bigger laughingstock than they had the previous three years. Now, that's not to say Ayton's to blame for them being atrocious... but it's impossible to make an argument that he made a positive impact on the team from the prior season.

Neither him nor Ayton made the playoffs, and Doncic had far more assets with which to work than Ayton.

WTF? What assets did Doncic have to work with that were better or even close to Booker? Dennis Smith mediocre ass? DeAndre Jordan's rotting corpse?

Plus, Doncic is a terrible defender, so I wouldn’t compare the two in that department. Most of your criticism about Ayton is applicable to Doncic.

Ayton was a terrible defender most of last year also outside some incredibly random defensive performance in two games versus LeBron and Greek Freak. He made zero impact on the defensive end. Now, I'm not going to argue Doncic did on that end, but he clearly made a difference on the offensive end, controlling the entire offense and being THE catalyst that again took them from 24 wins to 33, as opposed to Ayton contributing to a team that went from 22 wins to 19.

I really don’t want to get into another Ayton v. Doncic debate with someone, but people behave as if we drafted Anthony Bennett, Joe Smith Or some other useless player with the #1 pick.

literally NO ONE is doing this, but you trying to project some imaginary argument speaks to the deficiencies in your own. and when people start making up arguments and projecting them on those they disagree with, that's when the convo has run it's course.

 

[Dante]

I know they were in the same draft class and all but I sometimes don't get this debate or comparison between the two. Ayton isn't a guard and he'll probably never be the main guy here as long as we have Booker. That's just the reality of the situation. I'll give Doncic props for his career so far because he absolutely deserves it but the guy was also handed the keys to Dallas as soon as he was drafted so that plays a huge part in his development. If we're going to compare him to anybody on the Suns, it's Devin Booker. That's the most appropriate comparison IMO when you consider their roles on their respective teams.

Anyways, can't wait to see this team with Ayton back out on the court, whether that's sooner or later remains to be seen.