Cardinals Seahawks: The everything wrong with Kyler thread

[urs]

one kinda meta thought on all this:

if you fire Kliff -- it says to Kyler that Kliff was the problem, not him

you would need to bring in a super strong HC

I don't want anyone fired until Keim goes, he should have no part in hiring staff or executing our next draft.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Thanks for doing this, depressing as it was. Kyler looks completely lost.

 

[BritCard]

By the way, it's cool you took the time to do these breakdowns, Brit...but this doesn't give us a lot of info really unless you know what the progressions and routes for each play are. If you do, please let us know! Kyler's decision making MAY have been bad on Sunday, likely it was...but I'm more concerned with his accuracy and his awful footwork. Do they have coaches to work with him on this stuff? If he refuses to work on it why hasn't anyone in the org spoken out? The accuracy drop is pretty bad, astonishing actually, even open receivers are having to jump or dive for passes. I wonder if this is a physical thing, injury of some sort, its' not all mechanics because those have sucked forever and he's always been quite accurate.

You know, he's been so bad it reminded me of Cam Newton.

And that made me think about Kyler having Covid in August. Cam was clearly a different player after Covid.

I'm really not one that thinks Covid does X, Y and Z as some people do. But, it pro sports it only has to knock you off your game a few percent for it to make a word of difference.

On the other hand, I haven't heard about the same issues in practice but you have more time then.

 

[urs]

You know, he's been so bad it reminded me of Cam Newton.

And that made me think about Kyler having Covid in August. Cam was clearly a different player after Covid.

I'm really not one that thinks Covid does X, Y and Z as some people do. But, it pro sports it only has to knock you off your game a few percent for it to make a word of difference.

On the other hand, I haven't heard about the same issues in practice but you have more time then.

Completely forgot about him getting Covid, would be surprised if it impacted him this far after but who knows.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I'm thinking, if Kliff is coaching for his job, and he and Kyler are reviewing film, what's to stop Kliff from saying, dude wtf?? I mean, what's he got to lose? He'll have no future with the Cards anyway.

 

[TRW]

Thanks Brit for the effort. Wish our quarter of a billion dollar QB would do the same. There was a big reason that "study clause" was in that contract and I think we are seeing exactly why.
Craptastic QB play so far.

 

[BritCard]

Completely forgot about him getting Covid, would be surprised if it impacted him this far after but who knows.

Cam was completely dog crap for more the more than a year he played after Covid. Couldn't hit a bus with a beach ball.

 

[MrYeahBut]

btw, @BritCard

Awesome work on this, thanks

 

[BritCard]

This one is interesting because it shows Kyler predetermining where he is going with the ball pre-snap. There is a huge void in the back corner and no rush to throw the rub route once you identify that pre snap. Post snap you should just be keying on the inside DB and if he drops, hit the slant and if he stays, throw the corner.

The very first tweet in this thread is another prime example.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That's pretty much it. The next play Brown gets hurt. Seahawks get the ball back and the game is done.

My takeaways.

Obviously Kyler is playing really, really badly. Josh Rosen bad. If he was a rookie I'd think we drafted a dud.

I can't see any obvious reason for it. By and large he was kept clean. The sacks all came on 3rd and 4th down where the Chicks could pin their ears back and even then there were options that Kyler missed. The play designs are fine, always a bunch of guys open.

The run game is awful. It's not the backs. It's largely the designs and the O line. Where has the creativity gone? I recall in the first year Kliff had some really nicely designed run plays with 2 TE sets or 2 backs. It's really basic inside gap power run game and we just don't have the O line for it. It's really bad.

And even if we get lucky and a RB breaks through the 1st level our receivers can't block for their life and none of the O line can block in space except Hump.

It could be that the run game is so bad it's putting pressure on Kyler in the passing game. But there are massive issues with his feet, his progressions, his pre snap reads and his accuracy so it can't only be that.

And it's having a knock on effect. You can see it more clearly watching the All 22 because you can see everyone, but it's effecting moral. After Kyler misses an easy pass or a guy is open on a 20 yard route and we take the 6 yard checkdown you can see heads dropping.

The receivers know Kyler is playing poorly and it's effecting them.

I think the run game is being affected by the passing games inability to challenge the defense past the short stuff. Teams are flooding tons of defenders close to the line of scrimmage. Basically play two deep and everyone else attack the short stuff and line of scrimmage.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I forgot this one.

This was the 1st drive. It was 3rd down in the red zone and it's a simple concept. Green and brown are running a rub at the bottom of the screen and the ball is supposed to go to Green on the inside route. I'm not sure Green gets home but still.

I have no idea where Kyler is throwing this. There were a few of these short easy throws that were just miles off target. It's in the dirt for one, but also yards from Green.

Green got the stick for this in the game thread. I think even the commentators mentioned him. But it's pure Kyler.

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Ertz might score on the slant up top.

 

[AZfaninMN]

What’s funny is how often he actually has a clean pocket in these and yet so many people claim that he never had any time to throw

Of active QBs that have played this year, Kyler has had the 39th most time in the pocket on average at 2.2 seconds. That’s worse than almost every starting QB this year.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

 

[BritCard]

Of active QBs that have played this year, Kyler has had the 39th most time in the pocket on average at 2.2 seconds. That’s worse than almost every starting QB this year.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

Not because he's under pressure. Because he voluntarily throws the quickest shortest pass he can.

Kyler is the 25th most pressured QB in the league out of 33.

Through the last 5 games he's the least most pressured QB.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Not because he's under pressure. Because he voluntarily throws the quickest shortest pass he can.

Kyler is the 25th most pressured QB in the league out of 33.

Through the last 5 games he's the least most pressured QB.

Is that why he’s also the 2nd most hurried QB in the NFL only behind Mahomes?

 

[BritCard]

Kyler is becoming a punchline

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[BritCard]

Is that why he’s also the 2nd most hurried QB in the NFL only behind Mahomes?

A hurry is an incomplete pass that's thrown quickly.

He's not being hurried. He's just throwing so many quick incomplete passes that they are being chalked as hurries. It's a very loose metric.

 

[AZfaninMN]

A hurry is an incomplete pass that's thrown quickly.

He's not being hurried. He's just throwing so many quick incomplete passes that they are being chalked as hurries. It's a very loose metric.

“Times QBs were hurried - defined as a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure”

Ummmm what? Are you just making this up as you go or do you truly believe what you just said? I listed the definition above for you since you’re obviously confused. It says directly in there that he’s is forced to throw earlier than he intends to. So he is being forced to throw the ball in 2.2 seconds within the pocket….. that’s not good! Has Kyler been bad, Yes! Terrible!!! Has his Oline been good? No not even close. The entire offense is BAD!!!

 

[cardpa]

Yup appreciate it Brit. And irrefutably confirming what half I of us knew already. KYLER IS SUCKING!

Waiting for the few who will not be named to come in here and defend this????

I honestly think Murray takes everything he is being told and instructed to work on and as soon as

Does Kyler strike you as a "Yes sir. I take that on board and will work on it" kind of guy?

I'm really asking because he doesn't to me.

I honestly think Murray takes everything he is being told and instructed to work on and as soon as the session is done Murray takes it and tosses it into the garbage can. I am so convinced that Murray thinks he is a legend in his own mind. Sometimes I think he sees it as "How can I soar like an eagle when I'm surrounded by turkeys" situation.

 

[phillycard]

And for the “I miss Carson Palmer” people…for what? I enjoyed Carson for the most part, but you guys realize we won only 1 playoff game despite having a much better coaching staff & that 1 playoff game was against a depleted Packers team in OT, correct? Stop acting like his time here as if we had Peyton Manning.

Crazy how that’s the highlight of the Keim era so far.

I think what it does more than anything is just shine a spotlight on the dreck that we have been privy to as fans. Carson was no world-beater, but he is easily the 3rd best qb this franchise has ever had. I enjoyed watching him play. I really did.

 

[phillycard]

Thanks for doing this @BritCard. If only Bruce Lee would put in the same amount of time to break his behaviors, patterns, and tendencies down.

Im no fan of Kliff, but this isnt a Kliff problem- this is clearly a Kyler problem.

I have seen similar behavior patterns from some of my Asian Male students throughout the years. These guys (3 that I can easily recall) had great difficulty taking criticism, being coached, and changing their behaviors based on the priors. They too, almost seemed as if they thought they were the smartest, fastest, and most gifted people in the course (and I was just some pesky grey whiskered inferior human who didn't understand their amazing skill sets ). I am certainly not painting with a broad brush (because I have taught many Asian men and women who did not have these attitudes), but I do feel there are certain traits that are common based on any culture.

I am squarely in the F Kyler camp right now. I am almost leaning into the bench his ace too, as has already been suggested. If such heavy investments werent already made (1st round pick/$250 million man/org poster child), he likely would have been benched.

That's not to say those above him are immune and Kyler is the sole problem. The 3 (KK, SK, and MB) all deserve equal criticism because it is obvious they ALL have known what a ish head Kyler is (ie- the study clause), and essentially rewarded (enabled) the behavior...

What a joke of an organization. No balls, No leadership. To be quite honest, I like KK more than all of them when grading on a curve.

P.S. A very reliable source told me Larry couldn't stand him, and quoted Larry: "He's not a good guy." I think I am understanding what that means with each passing day.

Kyler?

 

[Shane]

Kyler?

Yes that’s who he’s referring to reference Larry…. There were rumblings they didn’t get along everyone just dismissed it.

 

[kerouac9]

This thread is a triumph, @BritCard . Thanks for doing this.

 

[kerouac9]

By the way, it's cool you took the time to do these breakdowns, Brit...but this doesn't give us a lot of info really unless you know what the progressions and routes for each play are. If you do, please let us know! Kyler's decision making MAY have been bad on Sunday, likely it was...but I'm more concerned with his accuracy and his awful footwork. Do they have coaches to work with him on this stuff? If he refuses to work on it why hasn't anyone in the org spoken out? The accuracy drop is pretty bad, astonishing actually, even open receivers are having to jump or dive for passes. I wonder if this is a physical thing, injury of some sort, its' not all mechanics because those have sucked forever and he's always been quite accurate.

There's a lot of excuse-making here. You can see what the routes for each play are, and you can see where he throws the ball. That's the point of the exercise.

What is the benefit of anyone in the organization saying, "We're doing what we can, but the quarter-billion-dollar QB just refuses to work on anything?"

 

[Snakester]

Thanks for doing this and I agree. Murray is not going through his progressions. Every single play that Kingsbury calls has half dozen ways to get rid of the ball with audibles. As you have shown there is almost always and open receiver.

 

[Shane]

Thanks for doing this and I agree. Murray is not going through his progressions. Every single play that Kingsbury calls has half dozen ways to get rid of the ball with audibles. As you have shown there is almost always and open receiver.

Remember posters telling us our WR's suck and that they are always covered? That its a scheme thing?