2025 Arizona Cardinals off season thread.

[BritCard]

Definitely true but realize several of those years we would have had a 1000 yard receiver but he got hurt. Seems like every year Kirk, or Hollywood got hurt and missed several games.

Name 1, if not the several. The only year close was Kirk on 982, but he played all 17 games. The only one with a chance would be Hopkins in 2021 but even then he only tracks for 972.

 

[Russ Smith]

Name 1, if not the several. The only year close was Kirk on 982, but he played all 17 games. The only one with a chance would be Hopkins in 2021 but even then he only tracks for 972.

ACtually I thought Kirk was closer a couple of times than he actually was but the specific year I was thinking of was 2021 with Dhop. He was on a pace to top 1000, had 482 yards in 7 plus games but he got hurt in the GB game in the first quarter, tried to play throught it but ended up missing 7 games and wound up with 572 in 10 games one of those he barely played past the first quarter. I would argue he would have had 1000 that year but obviously can't prove it.

Hollywood was on a pace for 1000 the next year but got hurt an only played 12 games.

So at least 2 but not as many as I thought I thought Kirk had been closer than he actually was.

 

[BACH]

Yeah I feel the same way, but how do you make sense of what seems like a crazy Vegas line? We all feel like Football Knowers, but we don’t have skin in the game.

I guess doubt Kyle Shanahan and that infrastructure at your peril?

It sure seemed like there’s a lot of discourse and evidence that MHJ was running lower-percentage routes than McBride.

I put money down on the win total over.

Unless Stafford starts declining I still have Rams as the best team.

The Cardinals and 49ers lines are insane IMO

 

[BACH]

That seems unlikely in a run-first offense with Trey McBride demanding at least 100 targets but I guess we’ll see

Yeah. I want to believe this, but logically it can only happen with a significant increase of offensive snaps.

There are only that many balls to spread.

I assume that the number of targets to McBride and MHJ combined stays about the same with MHJ hopefully producing better with his.

I expect Higgins to keep his targets about the same.

We all want more involvement from the all others - Wilson, Dortch, Jones and Reiman. That doesn’t add up unless the number of offensive snaps increase

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah. I want to believe this, but logically it can only happen with a significant increase of offensive snaps.

There are only that many balls to spread.

I assume that the number of targets to McBride and MHJ combined stays about the same with MHJ hopefully producing better with his.

I expect Higgins to keep his targets about the same.

We all want more involvement from the all others - Wilson, Dortch, Jones and Reiman. That doesn’t add up unless the number of offensive snaps increase

Cards were 21st last season in offensive plays. The difference between us and first place (DET and CLE) was less than five plays a game. The difference between us and the mean was just over one play per game.

 

[kerouac9]

The 2024 Arizona Cardinals were DFL in drives. Fewest drives against also (obviously). Only way to open up this offense is to actually open up the offense.

We had the sixth-highest plays per drive in the NFL. Ninth in points per drive. But we couldn’t get off the field: DFL in plays allowed per drive; 31st in opponent time per drive, 20th in points per drive.

 

[oaken1]

The 2024 Arizona Cardinals were DFL in drives. Fewest drives against also (obviously). Only way to open up this offense is to actually open up the offense.

We had the sixth-highest plays per drive in the NFL. Ninth in points per drive. But we couldn’t get off the field: DFL in plays allowed per drive; 31st in opponent time per drive, 20th in points per drive.

Yeah..our ball control and efficiency wasnt terrible on offense. It just appeared really sluggish, imo, due to the defense never getting the ball back.
The improved defense should get us an extra drive each game. Hard to quantify...so,..stops...they should get stops.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yeah..our ball control and efficiency wasnt terrible on offense. It just appeared really sluggish, imo, due to the defense never getting the ball back.

We didn't look dangerous on offense. At all. More plodding than anything.

A few games Conner pummeled teams into submission, but not frequently enough.

 

[PDXChris]

ACtually I thought Kirk was closer a couple of times than he actually was but the specific year I was thinking of was 2021 with Dhop. He was on a pace to top 1000, had 482 yards in 7 plus games but he got hurt in the GB game in the first quarter, tried to play throught it but ended up missing 7 games and wound up with 572 in 10 games one of those he barely played past the first quarter. I would argue he would have had 1000 that year but obviously can't prove it.

Hollywood was on a pace for 1000 the next year but got hurt an only played 12 games.

So at least 2 but not as many as I thought I thought Kirk had been closer than he actually was.

I already posted this, but I will again to help you out there.

2019 Fitz 804 yards
2020 Hopkins 1407 yards
2021 Kirk 982 yards, Green 848 yards while Hopkins missed half the season
2022 Hopkins 717 yards in 9 game, Brown 709 in 12 games
2023 Just bad, Kyler only played 8 games and McBride had 70% of his yardage in those 8 games
2024 McBride 1146 Yards, Harrison 885 yards

In 2021, Hopkins was the #1, missed half the season and two other WRs stepped up and Kirk was 18 yards shy of this make up 1000 yards metric. In 2022, both Brown and Hopkins were on pace for over 1000 yards. In 2023 McBride pace with Kyle was over 1000 yards too.

I also compared these same years to the Chiefs and they did not have a single pass catching player over this imaginary number and still made it to the Super Bowl just last season.

2024 Kelce 823 yards, Worthy 638 yards

This might be the silliest metric!

 

[kerouac9]

I also compared these same years to the Chiefs and they did not have a single pass catching player over this imaginary number and still made it to the Super Bowl just last season.

2024 Kelce 823 yards, Worthy 638 yards

This might be the silliest metric!

1000 yards receiving is a good benchmark for individual success, but I don’t know about team success.

It’s also worth mentioning that the 2024 Kansas City offense was not good; they were exceptionally mediocre. Fifteenth in scoring and 16th in yardage.

Comparisons to Mahomes are nearly as useless now as comparisons to the Brady Pats.

 

[PDXChris]

1000 yards receiving is a good benchmark for individual success, but I don’t know about team success.

It’s also worth mentioning that the 2024 Kansas City offense was not good; they were exceptionally mediocre. Fifteenth in scoring and 16th in yardage.

Comparisons to Mahomes are nearly as useless now as comparisons to the Brady Pats.

I agree for individual success, absolutely. The OP makes it seem that if you had 5 WRs with 900 yards each, it wouldn't be good. That is just nonsense.

While true about the Chiefs the OP post claimed no one was as bad as the Cardinals with this stat and the Chiefs are right there and they still made it to the SB with their top WR only getting 638 yards and their top pass catcher getting 823 yards. My point is correlation doesn't equal causation.

MHJ failing to reach 1000 yards is not why we missed the playoffs. There were several factors and while some appear to be fixed, there are still a handful out there like the IOL, lack of a bonafided #2 WR and Kyler's inability to rise up under pressure. None of those are on MHJ. He appears to doing what he needs to step up and we'll see if he can. But if we make a playoff run, it won't because MHJ got his 1000 yards.

 

[phillycard]

One thing I know for sure is that I don’t care about Joey Chestnut. Eating contests are stupid.

His nitrate count has gotta be through the roof. If those things are as responsible for a shortened life span as people say, he's signed up for an early checkout.

 

[kerouac9]

I imagine if I had the time to check that would be the worst of all QB's that have played the last 6 years.

@PDXChris i think Brit’s assertion is that Kyler is the “best” QB not to throw his #1 WR over 1000 yards.

Justin Fields might be the next guy. 1300+ yards for DJ Moore was real though.

 

[Ronin]

Cardinals ranked last in NFC West’s latest power rankings

GLENDALE – Once a team gets expectations, the doubters will come out to question the legitimacy of the hype. The Arizona Cardinals have playoff aspirations for the first time in years, but Yahoo’s Frank Schwab wants to pump the brake on those talks.

www.yardbarker.com

 

[PDXChris]

@PDXChris i think Brit’s assertion is that Kyler is the “best” QB not to throw his #1 WR over 1000 yards.

Justin Fields might be the next guy. 1300+ yards for DJ Moore was real though.

Maybe I misunderstood then. My bad. Either way, Mahomes would the best” QB not to throw his #1 WR over 1000 yards.

 

[ajcardfan]

His nitrate count has gotta be through the roof. If those things are as responsible for a shortened life span as people say, he's signed up for an early checkout.

If he's smart he's already started cologuard or even colonoscopies. My wife just saw a male in his late 30s die from colon cancer. No family history of it either.

 

[kerouac9]

Maybe I misunderstood then. My bad. Either way, Mahomes would the best” QB not to throw his #1 WR over 1000 yards.

Last year, but he’s shown he can do it over multiple seasons.

 

[BACH]

We didn't look dangerous on offense. At all. More plodding than anything.

A few games Conner pummeled teams into submission, but not frequently enough.

I assume that part of the offensive gameplan was to protect the defense.

 

[BritCard]

ACtually I thought Kirk was closer a couple of times than he actually was but the specific year I was thinking of was 2021 with Dhop. He was on a pace to top 1000, had 482 yards in 7 plus games but he got hurt in the GB game in the first quarter, tried to play throught it but ended up missing 7 games and wound up with 572 in 10 games one of those he barely played past the first quarter. I would argue he would have had 1000 that year but obviously can't prove it.

Hollywood was on a pace for 1000 the next year but got hurt an only played 12 games.

So at least 2 but not as many as I thought I thought Kirk had been closer than he actually was.

I just said his pace was 972, not over 1000.

Hollywood was on pace for 1062, so you can have that one, had he not had one or two bum games. But still, his record with receivers doesn't inspire confidence. Especially outside receivers.

 

[BritCard]

@PDXChris i think Brit’s assertion is that Kyler is the “best” QB not to throw his #1 WR over 1000 yards.

Justin Fields might be the next guy. 1300+ yards for DJ Moore was real though.

Maybe I misunderstood then. My bad. Either way, Mahomes would the best” QB not to throw his #1 WR over 1000 yards.

Just to be clear, what I meant was that in 6 seasons Kyler has only had 1 WR break 1000 yards and that is the worst among all QB's during that same 6 year period.

ie every other QB would have had more than 1 WR over 1000 yards during that period, or at least 1 in a shorter time frame if not played all 6 seasons.

The QB's still playing last year that were starters in 2019 are Jameis, Russ, Dak, Goff, Carr, Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Mayfield, Cousins, Lamar, Allen, Jones, Darnold and Stafford.

Lamar Jackson is next worse with 2 receivers over 1000 yards, but he has the excuse of throwing 400 fewer attempts and running 2400 yards more during the same period.

I think it's actually the worst among all starting QB's excluding last years rookie class. All post 2019 starters such as Geno, Stroud, Tua, Herbert, etc all have way more than 1. Even Bryce Young has 1 in 2 seasons.

There comes a time when you just have to accept a player has shown you what they are. It seems naive to think that Kyler is suddenly going to become Stafford or peak Matt Ryan. Or even Carson Palmer.

I believe Mike Wilson is a 1000 yard receiver. Kyler thinks that too. I doubt he breaks 750. If we had one of the QB's I named above we would have something like,

Harrison Jr - 1400 yards
Trey McBride - 1150 yards
Mike Wilson - 1050 yards

And another 1000 yards from a mixed group that would give us about 4600 yards total. That's what I think this offense is capable of.

Instead I think we get 1250 from Trey, 1050 from Marv, 750 from Mike and 800 or so from the rest for a total of around 3800.

 

[football karma]

Just to be clear, what I meant was that in 6 seasons Kyler has only had 1 WR break 1000 yards and that is the worst among all QB's during that same 6 year period.

the beauty of the ongoing Kyler debate is that there is enough noise going on in his career that there is always a "but......."

of his six years, two are partial years as a result of an ACL tear.

of the other four: he had DHop at 1,400 in 2020, and then Kirk came close in 2021 with 982. Of those four years -- how many times did he have a top 32 NFL WR play a (nearly)** full season? One time -- DHop in 2020. I suppose Kirk if you count 2021 as the focus shifted to him after Dhop went down.

This isnt intended as a refutation, but rather pointing out that these kinds of things are really complicated when it comes to Kyler and the Cardinals

**with the 17 game season, lets call "nearly full" as 15 games.

 

[Krangodnzr]

the beauty of the ongoing Kyler debate is that there is enough noise going on in his career that there is always a "but......."

of his six years, two are partial years as a result of an ACL tear.

of the other four: he had DHop at 1,400 in 2020, and then Kirk came close in 2021 with 982. Of those four years -- how many times did he have a top 32 NFL WR play a (nearly)** full season? One time -- DHop in 2020. I suppose Kirk if you count 2021 as the focus shifted to him after Dhop went down.

This isnt intended as a refutation, but rather pointing out that these kinds of things are really complicated when it comes to Kyler and the Cardinals

**with the 17 game season, lets call "nearly full" as 15 games.

Agreed, but is Kyler really making it easier on receivers?

 

[Stout]

the beauty of the ongoing Kyler debate is that there is enough noise going on in his career that there is always a "but......."

of his six years, two are partial years as a result of an ACL tear.

of the other four: he had DHop at 1,400 in 2020, and then Kirk came close in 2021 with 982. Of those four years -- how many times did he have a top 32 NFL WR play a (nearly)** full season? One time -- DHop in 2020. I suppose Kirk if you count 2021 as the focus shifted to him after Dhop went down.

This isnt intended as a refutation, but rather pointing out that these kinds of things are really complicated when it comes to Kyler and the Cardinals

**with the 17 game season, lets call "nearly full" as 15 games.

What Krang said. The absolute best excuse making in the world can only go so far as to say that Kyler cannot in any way lift his team to victory consistently. He is not a force multiplier, save for a few games sprinkled here and there. The best excuse making gets him to the middle of a very middling pack.

 

[Ronin]

Arizona Cardinals 2025 preseason schedule finalized: Dates, times, channels for games

The Arizona Cardinals will open their three-game 2025 preseason slate with a home date against the Chiefs. They also play the Broncos and Raiders.

www.azcentral.com

 

[football karma]

Agreed, but is Kyler really making it easier on receivers?

I dunno

Christian Kirk earned a pretty nice contract after 3 years of playing with Kyler

two things can be true at the same time:

Kyler needs to be better

and

Kylers WR core for the last three seasons has been bottom 5 in the NFL and it has impacted his productivity