2024 Draft Countdown/NFL Prospects thread

Garthshort

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After the Mac Jones debacle, don't be surprised to see the Patriots make a run at a veteran QB...I wouldn't be shocked to see them try to get Cousins, Mayfield or Wilson....and an outside chance if the Steelers go for someone like Wilson, then the Patriots maybe send a 3rd or ???? for Pickett. Then they can use the #3 pick for an offensive weapon, like MHJ.
Ron, again you might be correct, but when you have a chance to get a QB with the #3 pick, I think you take it. And many of their (NE) fans will be hoping they get the next CJ Stroud. Most GM's know that the QB's you mentioned are bandaids at best. I understand that rookie QB's are not a certainty, but if you pass on one, you do so at your peril.
 

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Being in position to draft one of the highly rated QB's is an opportunity that most clubs don't want to miss. There's so much uncertainty year to year on the availability of quality QB prospects and a team's position in the draft. When you have the opportunity and there's a need, it would be foolish not to draft a QB.
 

oaken1

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Ron, again you might be correct, but when you have a chance to get a QB with the #3 pick, I think you take it. And many of their (NE) fans will be hoping they get the next CJ Stroud. Most GM's know that the QB's you mentioned are bandaids at best. I understand that rookie QB's are not a certainty, but if you pass on one, you do so at your peril.
I think...with limited experience following the pats.... Mac Jones played pretty good until they changed the Offensive coaches...then he regressed. They might feel he can still be that guy who showed so much promise if they have the right staff.
In which case a top flight X is exactly what they need.
 

Krangodnzr

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Both Dexter Lawrence and Vita Vea were drafted top 20 and everyone here would draft them top 20 if they could.

Sweat dominated the Senior Bowl against the best interior linemen in the draft. If teams think Sweat can be close to either of those guys then he is worth a 1st round pick.

Guys that size that move like this are going in round 1

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I mean the last NT that was worth it before those two was Casey Hampton and pretty much everyone else was maybe worth a late third round.

You can pick outliers for every position, but they are outliers for a reason.
 

BritCard

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I mean the last NT that was worth it before those two was Casey Hampton and pretty much everyone else was maybe worth a late third round.

You can pick outliers for every position, but they are outliers for a reason.

My point is, teams are going to see Sweat as an outlier. He is an outlier. He's not some big run stopper as you are categorising him as. He collapses the pocket and pressures the QB. He's not going to be a pure NT. Like Vita Vea and Dexter Lawrence he's going to be an every down DT.

He needs to tighten up a bit. An NFL team will get his weight down to about 345 and improve his conditioning, and it really wouldn't surprise me if he's a Dexter Lawrence / Vita Vea level DT in 2-3 years.
 

Krangodnzr

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My point is, teams are going to see Sweat as an outlier. He is an outlier. He's not some big run stopper as you are categorising him as. He collapses the pocket and pressures the QB. He's not going to be a pure NT. Like Vita Vea and Dexter Lawrence he's going to be an every down DT.

He needs to tighten up a bit. An NFL team will get his weight down to about 345 and improve his conditioning, and it really wouldn't surprise me if he's a Dexter Lawrence / Vita Vea level DT in 2-3 years.
This is said every year.

Jordan Davis was supposed to be that guy a few years ago and his pre draft hype was greater than Vea and Lawrence. He hasn't been. Fletcher is still a better player and took a bunch of his snaps.

The Cardinals aren't in position to draft guys that are just rotational guys. It's poor resource management.
 

HairZach

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This is said every year.

Jordan Davis was supposed to be that guy a few years ago and his pre draft hype was greater than Vea and Lawrence. He hasn't been. Fletcher is still a better player and took a bunch of his snaps.

The Cardinals aren't in position to draft guys that are just rotational guys. It's poor resource management.

I mean DTs rotate a ton as a rule, regardless of where they are drafted. We need good DTs/NTs if we want to stop the Niners/Rams from getting 6+ yards a carry just running McCaffery/Kyren up the middle. We just won't be able to beat them, or most teams, without that. I think its easily our biggest hole.

Vita Vea and Hargrave average around 60% of snaps most seasons. Vita had one season at 70% but he only played in 5 games. Hargrave had one season at 68% and that didn't happen until his 6th year. They still are game changers. You harp on Jordan Davis, but him and Jalen Carter were wrecking gameplans most of the season, both taking on around 50% of snaps. They were dominant until the entire team had a Kingsbury moment in the last 6 games.

We have to commit resources at that position to have a good team and when we do, we will be committing resources to "rotational guys".

That said I'm not sure I'd advocate for Sweat at 27.
 

Krangodnzr

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I mean DTs rotate a ton as a rule, regardless of where they are drafted. We need good DTs/NTs if we want to stop the Niners/Rams from getting 6+ yards a carry just running McCaffery/Kyren up the middle. We just won't be able to beat them, or most teams, without that. I think its easily our biggest hole.

Vita Vea and Hargrave average around 60% of snaps most seasons. Vita had one season at 70% but he only played in 5 games. Hargrave had one season at 68% and that didn't happen until his 6th year. They still are game changers. You harp on Jordan Davis, but him and Jalen Carter were wrecking gameplans most of the season, both taking on around 50% of snaps. They were dominant until the entire team had a Kingsbury moment in the last 6 games.

We have to commit resources at that position to have a good team and when we do, we will be committing resources to "rotational guys".

That said I'm not sure I'd advocate for Sweat at 27.
I think you aren't understanding the key point I'm making. I'm not arguing that DT/NTs aren't valuable, I'm arguing that you can find these players later.

And Fletcher Cox was still more effective than Jordan Davis, getting over 100 more snaps.

The NFL is littered with DT/NTs drafted later than perform pretty darn close to the level of the top guys. Sweat is very likely to be one of these guys who a 4th round picks virtually equals his contributions.
 

ajcardfan

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I think you aren't understanding the key point I'm making. I'm not arguing that DT/NTs aren't valuable, I'm arguing that you can find these players later.

And Fletcher Cox was still more effective than Jordan Davis, getting over 100 more snaps.

The NFL is littered with DT/NTs drafted later than perform pretty darn close to the level of the top guys. Sweat is very likely to be one of these guys who a 4th round picks virtually equals his contributions.
Yes, just like Leki Fotu was drafted in the 4th round. Steve Keim totally agrees with you.
 

kerouac9

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And Fletcher Cox was still more effective than Jordan Davis, getting over 100 more snaps.
I agree with your broad point, but 100 snaps over the course of a season isn’t much. It really highlights how deep the Eagles were with rotational DL when they had everyone else under contract.

I loved Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, and Dan Williams. There isn’t much difference between these guys and Corey Peters, except one will cost you a high draft pick and the other will only cost you cap dollars.
 

BritCard

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I think you aren't understanding the key point I'm making. I'm not arguing that DT/NTs aren't valuable, I'm arguing that you can find these players later.

And Fletcher Cox was still more effective than Jordan Davis, getting over 100 more snaps.

The NFL is littered with DT/NTs drafted later than perform pretty darn close to the level of the top guys. Sweat is very likely to be one of these guys who a 4th round picks virtually equals his contributions.

You ain't getting a Vita Vea, Dexter Lawrence or Christian Wilkins in the later rounds.
 

Stout

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This is said every year.

Jordan Davis was supposed to be that guy a few years ago and his pre draft hype was greater than Vea and Lawrence. He hasn't been. Fletcher is still a better player and took a bunch of his snaps.

The Cardinals aren't in position to draft guys that are just rotational guys. It's poor resource management.
I hate to tell you, but most of the guys drafted around there would be considered poor resource management by you. It's not like teams always get stars at the end of the 1st round.
 

kerouac9

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You ain't getting a Vita Vea, Dexter Lawrence or Christian Wilkins in the later rounds.
Justin Madubuike was drafted in the third round. Chris Jones was drafted in the second. Javon Hargrave was drafted in the third.

Players are available throughout the draft. Even good players. You just have to have good scouts.
 

BritCard

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Justin Madubuike was drafted in the third round. Chris Jones was drafted in the second. Javon Hargrave was drafted in the third.

Players are available throughout the draft. Even good players. You just have to have good scouts.

That's 3 guys drafted between 2016 and 2020, and Justin Madubuike is nowhere near the same league as the other 2. He's Zach Allen apart from last season.

And Chris Jones was the 36th pick so really pushing the later rounds narrative there.

The hit rate to bust rate is probably higher at DT than any other position.

Fox Sports Top 10 DTs are,

Aaron Donald #13
Chris Jones #36
Quinnen Williams #3
Javon Hargrave #89
Jeffery Simmons #19
Dexter Lawrence #17
Cam Heyward #31
Christian Wilkins #13
Jon Allen #17
Vita Vea #12

If you want to extend it and add those from PFN not listed here you can add

DeForest Buckner #7
Kenny Clark #27
DJ Reader #166
Daron Payne #13
Derrick Brown #7
Dalvin Tomlinson #55
Leonard Williams #6
Ed Oliver #9

It's extremely rare to get a top DT that isn't a top 40 pick.

If you want to go later your ceiling is guys like Grover Stewart, David Onyemata or Justin Madubuike. If you want to wait 3 years for a Justin Madubuike to take off then fair enough, I'd rather go higher for DT's personally.

It's certainly nothing to do with scouts. Otherwise everyone has bad scouts.
 
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