2024 Draft Countdown/NFL Prospects thread

CardNots

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If we let the Chiefs get Rodney Hudson like they wanted I dont think the Chiefs win multiple Super Bowls.
Just think about how bad their wr drafts have been. Forced to rely on Justin Watson. Tackles not that great.

You lose a top 2 or 3 center in the league and they are screwed.

Chiefs lucked out because Keim wanted to secure his toys in Zaven and Rondale.
I think Rodney plays harder for them. Just seemed like he didn’t want to put in the work for the Cardinal.
 

Stout

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Okay where to start . . .

Those chiefs you’re trumpeting as the model took a center at 31 - is 27 a material difference? No.

Baltimore has taken more than one receiver in the first round and you’re essentially saying they are losers because they haven’t won a super bowl (a patently ridiculous argument btw).

When you pull up Simmons and cooper you’re not arguing in good faith. Listing busts as representative of drafting certain positions isn’t good faith. It’s more an indictment on the decisionmakers ability to identify talent than the positions being discussed.

No one is parroting keim. No one is arguing to take an ILB or guard with the fourth pick. Or to draft players and play them outta position. Or to be poor at talent identification.

Your last paragraph is circular reasoning, a failure in and of itself. Again, please read this slowly, we are talking about drafting a guard or center who the teams football talent evaluation professionals have graded HIGHER than the players available at other positions. It doesn’t matter how many of the other position have been drafted (I part from Brit here in his logic - there could be 5 edges rated more highly than the highest rated center). The players grades are the players grades. And I would assume that really good front offices probably factor in both need and positional value when grading/slotting players.
Dude, give it up. Some folks are ironclad in their certainty and no amount of reality will penetrate that. To have absolute certainly about something that defies certainty (like the draft) is silly.
 

Krangodnzr

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Dude, give it up. Some folks are ironclad in their certainty and no amount of reality will penetrate that. To have absolute certainly about something that defies certainty (like the draft) is silly.
I love the insulting tone of your and @Ouchie-Z-Clown posts.

You believe what your believe, and because I believe differently, you act like I don't see reality. Such arrogance.
 

Stout

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I love the insulting tone of your and @Ouchie-Z-Clown posts.

You believe what your believe, and because I believe differently, you act like I don't see reality. Such arrogance.
No, you believe what you believe, you state it as an absolute (you've said literally even), and you make fun of everyone who disagrees. The condescension to Ouchie with stuff like if he's losing the argument so bad he has to blah blah blah is awful, dude. The arrogance from a nobody message board poster is ridiculous. You are nobody. I am nobody. We're basically fans sitting around a bar or standing around a water cooler BSing about the draft. That's how much either of our opinions mean. You seem to think your beliefs are facts and that you know a lot more than others, however. Opinions aren't facts, Krang. They are opinions.

My argument? Aside from punter, LS, and kicker, there are just no absolutes. There's always an exception to a rule, especially in the draft that defies absolutes. Your argument has "literally" been that you are right and you never, ever take certain positions in the first round and you condescend to and mock those who disagree.

I'll go with "not an absolute" for 500, Alex.
 

Krangodnzr

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No, you believe what you believe, you state it as an absolute (you've said literally even), and you make fun of everyone who disagrees. The condescension to Ouchie with stuff like if he's losing the argument so bad he has to blah blah blah is awful, dude.
I said that because he was insulting. Context matters.
The arrogance from a nobody message board poster is ridiculous. You are nobody. I am nobody. We're basically fans sitting around a bar or standing around a water cooler BSing about the draft. That's how much either of our opinions mean. You seem to think your beliefs are facts and that you know a lot more than others, however. Opinions aren't facts, Krang. They are opinions.
None of this changes how insulting and rude you are being. I don't agree with your stance, you don't agree with mine. Fine. But don't resort to being insulting.
My argument? Aside from punter, LS, and kicker, there are just no absolutes. There's always an exception to a rule, especially in the draft that defies absolutes. Your argument has "literally" been that you are right and you never, ever take certain positions in the first round and you condescend to and mock those who disagree.

I'll go with "not an absolute" for 500, Alex.
I understand your argument and think it is a poor team building strategy.
 

Krangodnzr

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Krang, the entire stance you’ve taken is pure arrogance. A little self awareness might in line here buddy . . .
Nothing arrogant about it.

I just don't believe the difference between Hernandez and the best guard in the league is really that difference. I was watching a draft video last year and the analyst pulled the numbers on how many starters at guard you can find in the fourth round. And that link I provided you demonstrated that.

I don't know what to tell you honestly. There are certain positions where the difference between best and average don't really move the needle all that much and those positions should not be drafted high.

Back when the league still used full backs, you'd occasionally see full backs go high and it was the same kind of foolishness.

Let's take Kyzir White for example. The difference between him and Roquan Smith isn't really too great because of the limits of what ILB do. They are essentially players who get you tackles and occasionally a splash play, but the main part of their job is to get tackles.
 

Crimson Warrior

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Nothing arrogant about it.

I just don't believe the difference between Hernandez and the best guard in the league is really that difference. I was watching a draft video last year and the analyst pulled the numbers on how many starters at guard you can find in the fourth round. And that link I provided you demonstrated that.

I don't know what to tell you honestly. There are certain positions where the difference between best and average don't really move the needle all that much and those positions should not be drafted high.

Back when the league still used full backs, you'd occasionally see full backs go high and it was the same kind of foolishness.

Let's take Kyzir White for example. The difference between him and Roquan Smith isn't really too great because of the limits of what ILB do. They are essentially players who get you tackles and occasionally a splash play, but the main part of their job is to get tackles.

I think you're onto something here Krang.

If you're saying a "good" WR or EDGE has a bigger impact on a game than a "HOF" Guard, I think I would agree.

Offensive line, especially IOL (i.e. G-C-G), is just not where you want to invest tons of draft capital or cap space.
 

Krangodnzr

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I think you're onto something here Krang.

If you're saying a "good" WR or EDGE has a bigger impact on a game than a "HOF" Guard, I think I would agree.

Offensive line, especially IOL (i.e. G-C-G), is just not where you want to invest tons of draft capital or cap space.
You can get by with adequate IOL. It's hard to get by with adequate OTs. Its hard to get by with just adequate WRs. You can get by with adequate LBs.

I don't see any scenario where an IOL is the best player on the board at #27.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think you're onto something here Krang.

If you're saying a "good" WR or EDGE has a bigger impact on a game than a "HOF" Guard, I think I would agree.

Offensive line, especially IOL (i.e. G-C-G), is just not where you want to invest tons of draft capital or cap space.
If this were true we would never see professional football people (a) draft interior olinemen high; or (b) give them substantial contracts. And yet we see both all the time. I’m just not a believer that couch gms know that much more - particularly with such a simple concept - than so many professionals.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You can get by with adequate IOL. It's hard to get by with adequate OTs. Its hard to get by with just adequate WRs. You can get by with adequate LBs.

I don't see any scenario where an IOL is the best player on the board at #27 in any draft ever.
Completed your real statement.
 

oaken1

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If this were true we would never see professional football people (a) draft interior olinemen high; or (b) give them substantial contracts. And yet we see both all the time. I’m just not a believer that couch gms know that much more - particularly with such a simple concept - than so many professionals.
and the truth is many nfl guards were tackles in college. the guys with shorter arms or slightly lower athleticism get drafted early and moved to guard.

some folks either overlook or do not comprehend that football is the consummate team sport. at least 6 other guys have to do their job well before that WR even gets an opportunity to do his. any of those six fail and the wr never gets a chance to make a play.
 

RON_IN_OC

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That is special footwork. Is there more tape of that magic or was that a unique play?
Dude has awesome footwork...hits the hole so fast, but can jump cut in traffic or in the open field and make guys miss. Check out the 5th (I think) play, where he makes 2 or 3 jump cuts at the the los to be able to bounce outside to the right. Also, I think he's only 19, now....played as a 17 year old true freshman.

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Stout

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I said that because he was insulting. Context matters.

None of this changes how insulting and rude you are being. I don't agree with your stance, you don't agree with mine. Fine. But don't resort to being insulting.

I understand your argument and think it is a poor team building strategy.
It's your classic double standard, Krang. You are allowed to be condescending and pretend to be a "higher thinker" and insult other posters but they cannot dare say anything about it, point it out, or give you grief for it.

I get it. You have strong opinions and think you're right about them--but that doesn't mean you are or that you have any sort of superior intellect or knowledge about football. You're just a regular poster on a message board, dude.
 

Stout

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If this were true we would never see professional football people (a) draft interior olinemen high; or (b) give them substantial contracts. And yet we see both all the time. I’m just not a believer that couch gms know that much more - particularly with such a simple concept - than so many professionals.
Yeah, the idea that I wouldn't draft a Mike Webster and instead take a Hollywood Brown is simply ludicrous.
 

Stout

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You can get by with adequate IOL. It's hard to get by with adequate OTs. Its hard to get by with just adequate WRs. You can get by with adequate LBs.

I don't see any scenario where an IOL is the best player on the board at #27.
And that's why you're a message board poster and not a GM, IMO.
 
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Dude has awesome footwork...hits the hole so fast, but can jump cut in traffic or in the open field and make guys miss. Check out the 5th (I think) play, where he makes 2 or 3 jump cuts at the the los to be able to bounce outside to the right. Also, I think he's only 19, now....played as a 17 year old true freshman.

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Wisconsin has a pretty solid track record with RBs as well
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That both are rare occurrences should color your perspective some
Of course it does. That’s why I am only advocating it when the IOL is clearly more highly valued than the other position, and only later in the first round. Been pretty consistent in making that statement. I’m prettt much only pushing back on the concept that one should NEVER take certain positions late in the first round.
 
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