2023 1st round pick is #6 Paris Johnson

CardNots

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The salary cap and how it impacted the construction of teams in 1994 was pretty monumental.

4 NFL franchises have been added in the past 30 years increasing the league from 28 teams to 32. That is pretty monumental.

Total yards per game have increased. Passing yards. Passing attempts. Plays per game. All have increased. Defensive rules have changed to favor the offense.

I didn't make the statement, but I feel it is fair to say the NFL game as a whole has changed pretty significantly over the past 30 years. Especially in relation to QBs and offense.
Are you saying the game isn’t won and lost in the trenches?
 

Chopper0080

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List of QBs who have won Super Bowl's since 1993

Troy Aikman x2
Steve Young
Brett Favre
John Elway x2
Kurt Warner
Trent Dilfer
Tom Brady x7
Brad Johnson
Ben Roethlisberger x2
Peyton Manning x2
Eli Manning x2
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Joe Flacco
Russell Wilson
Nick Foles
Patrick Mahomes x2
Matthew Stafford

A lot of HOF guys on that list.
 

Goldfield

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Maybe not high powered, but a Petzing offense can dominate the time of possession & thus keep our D off the field. A well rested D is ALWAYS a better D. That was half the problem last year when our O would run 3 plays and only take 35 seconds off the clock. Even when this team was winning games the first half of 2021, they never dominated the TOP. Part of the reason why the D collapsed the 2nd half of 2021.
100% on a well rested D. Couldn’t stand the Kliff “tempo” garbage.
 

Krangodnzr

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The salary cap and how it impacted the construction of teams in 1994 was pretty monumental.

4 NFL franchises have been added in the past 30 years increasing the league from 28 teams to 32. That is pretty monumental.

Total yards per game have increased. Passing yards. Passing attempts. Plays per game. All have increased. Defensive rules have changed to favor the offense.

I didn't make the statement, but I feel it is fair to say the NFL game as a whole has changed pretty significantly over the past 30 years. Especially in relation to QBs and offense.
Look at RB salaries at that paints the picture perfectly. I remember when a team was a contender because they had a great running game and good defense. Right now that's good for 8 wins.
 

daves

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Even when this team was winning games the first half of 2021, they never dominated the TOP. Part of the reason why the D collapsed the 2nd half of 2021.
This is an entirely false narrative.

During the 10-2 start to 2021, the Cardinals averaged 31:26 TOP, with over 30 minutes in 9 of the 12 games, over 33 minutes in 6/12, over 35 minutes in 3/12, and over 40 minutes at Seattle!

Even during the awful 1-4 slump to end the season, the Cardinals averaged 30:49 TOP, with the advantage in 3 of the 5 games.

For the entire 2021 regular season, the Cardinals averaged 31:15 TOP. They were ranked 18th in passing attempts and 7th in rushing attempts.

Even during the abominable 2022 season, the Cardinals averaged 30:15 TOP - 30:56 in the 10 games Murray started, and 29:17 in the remaining 7. They had the TOP advantage in 10/17 games.
 
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CardNots

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it isn’t volleyball logic or any other snide example. I know I didn’t say anything of the sort and you do as well. Don’t be salty that I asked you to point out where I said that and you can’t.
All I said is I wanted a serviceable QB not a high priced Star QB. You asked for an example where that has worked in the past. I gave you examples but you slammed me with that was 30 years ago although I mentioned more recent examples. you made a point how the game has changed so I asked you if you believe the game is no longer won and lost in the trenches. Then you said I never said that which I never had said you did.

Look Chopper I like your posts but you were playing volleyball with me or it seemed so. Look when you challenge someone keep track of the volleys as it becomes annoying when someone has to remind you how things really transpired:)
 

PACardsFan

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This is an entirely false narrative.

During the 10-2 start to 2021, the Cardinals averaged 31:26 TOP, with over 30 minutes in 9 of the 12 games, over 33 minutes in 6/12, over 35 minutes in 3/12, and over 40 minutes at Seattle!

Even during the awful 1-4 slump to end the season, the Cardinals averaged 30:49 TOP, with the advantage in 3 of the 5 games.

For the entire 2021 regular season, the Cardinals averaged 31:15 TOP. They were ranked 18th in passing attempts and 7th in rushing attempts.

Even during the abominable 2022 season, the Cardinals averaged 30:15 TOP - 30:56 in the 10 games Murray started, and 29:17 in the remaining 7. They had the TOP advantage in 10/17 games.
Yes, statistically your numbers are 100% correct. But, when you delve deeper, there were reasons why our TOP appeared to be a positive. In 2021, we had the 4th most penalties in the NFL. And the brunt of those penalties seemed to be pre-snap & holding calls on our offense. In our opener, when we dominated TOP against TN, we had like 4-5 penalties on the opening drive. But, Murray kept extending those drives anyways with big 1st down plays. What those penalties did was to force our offense into longer, more time consuming scoring drives. And our offense managed to somehow make up for those penalties during the 10-2 start. On top of that, in that 10-2 start, our D created 23 turnovers, which also put the ball into the hands of our offense and built up our TOP advantages in the 10-2 run.

After the 10-2 start, the D only created 4 turnovers the rest of the way, and instead of having short fields after a turnover, our offense couldn’t seem to create full field possessions. So bottom line, yes, you are correct. It wasn’t necessarily TOP that doomed us. It was more that a relatively weak D completely stopped creating turnovers & we averaged 8 penalties per game in the stretch when we lost 5 of our last 6 games.

My point with a Petzing based offense, is that our TOP will be based on significantly fewer penalties, and a more physically punishing run & pass game. If we can do that, we won’t need our D to create an inordinate amount of turnovers in order to win games.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Week 16. Christmas in Chicago. The Cardinals run into two curses at once...cold weather game plus a game on the holiday. They have unforced errors and lose a close one 4-11
Counterpoint: It would be peak Cardinals to go into Chicago, experience an unseasonably warm weather pattern, Chicago decimated by injuries and pull off a win...pushing their record to a point of being out of the top 5 in the draft.
 

Chopper0080

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All I said is I wanted a serviceable QB not a high priced Star QB. You asked for an example where that has worked in the past. I gave you examples but you slammed me with that was 30 years ago although I mentioned more recent examples. you made a point how the game has changed so I asked you if you believe the game is no longer won and lost in the trenches. Then you said I never said that which I never had said you did.

Look Chopper I like your posts but you were playing volleyball with me or it seemed so. Look when you challenge someone keep track of the volleys as it becomes annoying when someone has to remind you how things really transpired:)
You recognize K9 and I are different people, right?

Personally with a great OL you will be able to pass and run without overpaying the RB and QB positions.
Run? Yes.

I’d be interested in the example of a great OL propping up a bad QB.
Who said bad QB? Think serviceable.
What's your example?



So we're going to lose games 35-7 for the first 6-8 weeks of the season and then lose them 35-28 at the end of the season? Isn't the idea that good coaching makes the difference in tight games? How do you have ++ QB play and ++ coaching and still end up with a top 3 pick.

Just right off hand without researching the Redskins won two superbowls. Dallas had a great OL and did well with serviceable QBs. Recent memory the Rams and maybe Atlanta. Oh yeah did you forget our SB with Warner.
So your example is from more than 30 years ago. Extremely relevant!
 

kerouac9

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Just right off hand without researching the Redskins won two superbowls. Dallas had a great OL and did well with serviceable QBs. Recent memory the Rams and maybe Atlanta. Oh yeah did you forget our SB with Warner.

So your example is from more than 30 years ago. Extremely relevant!
Just to come back around on this.

Dallas won with Hall of Famer Troy Aikman, 4x Pro Bowler and one-time second-team All Pro Tony Romo, and 2x pro bowler/OROY Dak Prescott. That offensive line didn't seem to elevate Chad Hutchinson, Drew Henson, or Quincy Carter much.

The Rams made the Super Bowl with a #1 overall pick and won a Super Bowl with a likely Hall of Famer in Matt Stafford.

Matt Ryan was the 2016 NFL MVP.

You're acting like these dudes are Derek Carr. They're just not.

Warner is a Hall of Fame quarterback. How was he elevated from mid status by our dominant offensive line?
 

Krangodnzr

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Just to come back around on this.

Dallas won with Hall of Famer Troy Aikman, 4x Pro Bowler and one-time second-team All Pro Tony Romo, and 2x pro bowler/OROY Dak Prescott. That offensive line didn't seem to elevate Chad Hutchinson, Drew Henson, or Quincy Carter much.
Not that it matters too much but Hutchinson, Carter, and Henson didn't have the dominant OL that Aikman had, nor did they have peak Emmitt Smith.

A really good OL can elevate a good QB into being a great QB, but I don't think it elevates crap QBs into being good QBs.
The Rams made the Super Bowl with a #1 overall pick and won a Super Bowl with a likely Hall of Famer in Matt Stafford.
One of the brilliant aspects of the McVay scheme is that the ball often comes out so quick that OL talent doesn't really matter too much. Just bring in guys athletic enough to run stretch zone and kill the other team with misdirection all day long.
Matt Ryan was the 2016 NFL MVP.

You're acting like these dudes are Derek Carr. They're just not.

Warner is a Hall of Fame quarterback. How was he elevated from mid status by our dominant offensive line?
Football is absolutely a complimentary game. Great QBs still need good players around them to win.
 

football karma

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When I think of crappy QB that an Offensive Line elevated I think of...

Joe Flacco
i think a good OL / running game can help a QB reach their ceiling

a few QBs can make below average OLs look playoff worthy -- Warner was one of them with his quick reads / release

a good OL is one of those "necessary but not sufficient" things
 

kerouac9

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When I think of crappy QB that an Offensive Line elevated I think of...

Joe Flacco
Is Joe Flacco Elite?

Joe Flacco, man. Super Bowl MVP, zero career Pro Bowls. One season passing over 4k yards. What a career. Derek Anderson is Joe Flacco in another timeline.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Is Joe Flacco Elite?

Joe Flacco, man. Super Bowl MVP, zero career Pro Bowls. One season passing over 4k yards. What a career. Derek Anderson is Joe Flacco in another timeline.

I definitely wasn't saying he was close to elite. Just he is trash without a great oline.
 

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This is an entirely false narrative.

During the 10-2 start to 2021, the Cardinals averaged 31:26 TOP, with over 30 minutes in 9 of the 12 games, over 33 minutes in 6/12, over 35 minutes in 3/12, and over 40 minutes at Seattle!

Even during the awful 1-4 slump to end the season, the Cardinals averaged 30:49 TOP, with the advantage in 3 of the 5 games.

For the entire 2021 regular season, the Cardinals averaged 31:15 TOP. They were ranked 18th in passing attempts and 7th in rushing attempts.

Even during the abominable 2022 season, the Cardinals averaged 30:15 TOP - 30:56 in the 10 games Murray started, and 29:17 in the remaining 7. They had the TOP advantage in 10/17 games.
I’d say it was more so because of the amount of turnovers our D created/we got lucky in those games. Drastically different there after. You better have more TOP when you are winning the turnover battle.
 
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