2021 4th round pick is Marco Wilson CB

[juza76]

Didn't see him much yesterday, how did he play?
I still see many of our CB's giving too much cushion

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There was no “unrelenting positivity” it was mostly wait and see and really loud anti-Murray sentiment based on dubious and completely irrelevant news articles questioning his leadership skills before he played a single snap. Way worst then Rosen who most were excited about and glad he fell to us, myself included. Even after his putrid year this board was way more positive for Rosen then they were of Kyler before he played a single snap, that was the point.

No I think we definitely had the typical full spectrum.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

At least for me, that's because we made this overwhelming risk with the franchise. My biggest problem with Keim is that he always wants to be the smartest guy in the room. We hired a guy who couldn't buy a winning season, got fired, and paired him with a short kid he'd been obsessed with for years.

I don't think the sentiment questioning Murray follows him if not for Kliff's losing record, and the media storm following the quote from Kliff's time at TT. To be additionally skeptical for many of us, there was a guy already under contract for another sport, who continues to say he wants to play two ways, and doesn't want to play in preseason.

Kyler's been better than I anticipated, but if it were Eric Bieniemy (only mentioned because we requested to interview him in 2019) making the call to get the guy, I would have felt different. Bieniemy is no sure thing, but he's been around, with clear success.

Considering the rookie of the year, pro bowl, and general kudos kyler receivers around the league I think it’s time to retire the kyler is only here bc of kliff sentiment.

 

[BritCard]

Didn't see him much yesterday, how did he play?
I still see many of our CB's giving too much cushion

He only played something like 11 snaps but what he did do he did well

 

[Krangodnzr]

At least for me, that's because we made this overwhelming risk with the franchise. My biggest problem with Keim is that he always wants to be the smartest guy in the room. We hired a guy who couldn't buy a winning season, got fired, and paired him with a short kid he'd been obsessed with for years.

I don't think the sentiment questioning Murray follows him if not for Kliff's losing record, and the media storm following the quote from Kliff's time at TT. To be additionally skeptical for many of us, there was a guy already under contract for another sport, who continues to say he wants to play two ways, and doesn't want to play in preseason.

Kyler's been better than I anticipated, but if it were Eric Bieniemy (only mentioned because we requested to interview him in 2019) making the call to get the guy, I would have felt different. Bieniemy is no sure thing, but he's been around, with clear success.

It's hilarious how you doggedly still hold onto your anti-Kyler takes...

 

[Solar7]

Considering the rookie of the year, pro bowl, and general kudos kyler receivers around the league I think it’s time to retire the kyler is only here bc of kliff sentiment.

It's hilarious how you doggedly still hold onto your anti-Kyler takes...

Jameis Winston threw for over 4,000 yards his rookie year, got top three rookie records, and made the Pro Bowl. In year two, he was ranked by his peers as a top 60 player in the NFL. I don't think Kyler has the outlying issues that Jameis had, specifically, but if one goes back to look at my posts, I've made this comparison in his first two years multiple times. As a group, the board likes to act like he's arrived... when he's a middle of the road QB in record and stats.

And I'm literally wearing a Kyler Murray jersey as I type this! I drafted him in Dynasty, I've got a trade in the works for him in another fantasy league... he's likely the best Cardinals QB that's ever been homegrown. But we keep talking like he's arrived, just like Bucs fans did about Jameis.

I'm sure Bucs fans were thrilled after year two with Winston. I'm relatively high on Kyler. I'm not anointing him yet.

 

[BritCard]

Jameis Winston threw for over 4,000 yards his rookie year, got top three rookie records, and made the Pro Bowl. In year two, he was ranked by his peers as a top 60 player in the NFL. I don't think Kyler has the outlying issues that Jameis had, specifically, but if one goes back to look at my posts, I've made this comparison in his first two years multiple times. As a group, the board likes to act like he's arrived... when he's a middle of the road QB in record and stats.

And I'm literally wearing a Kyler Murray jersey as I type this! I drafted him in Dynasty, I've got a trade in the works for him in another fantasy league... he's likely the best Cardinals QB that's ever been homegrown. But we keep talking like he's arrived, just like Bucs fans did about Jameis.

I'm sure Bucs fans were thrilled after year two with Winston. I'm relatively high on Kyler. I'm not anointing him yet.

He's not wrong. The NFL graveyard is littered with the bones of QBs that had similar or better starts to their careers. Especially if you take away his legs.

I get homerism. Especially with QBs. But he is an average passing QB at the moment. Especially in crucial areas such as intermediate passing and 3rd downs. He's far from arrived as an NFL QB. Big year for him this year.

 

[Stout]

Jameis Winston threw for over 4,000 yards his rookie year, got top three rookie records, and made the Pro Bowl. In year two, he was ranked by his peers as a top 60 player in the NFL. I don't think Kyler has the outlying issues that Jameis had, specifically, but if one goes back to look at my posts, I've made this comparison in his first two years multiple times. As a group, the board likes to act like he's arrived... when he's a middle of the road QB in record and stats.

And I'm literally wearing a Kyler Murray jersey as I type this! I drafted him in Dynasty, I've got a trade in the works for him in another fantasy league... he's likely the best Cardinals QB that's ever been homegrown. But we keep talking like he's arrived, just like Bucs fans did about Jameis.

I'm sure Bucs fans were thrilled after year two with Winston. I'm relatively high on Kyler. I'm not anointing him yet.

Yeah, this is a valid take.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Jameis Winston threw for over 4,000 yards his rookie year, got top three rookie records, and made the Pro Bowl. In year two, he was ranked by his peers as a top 60 player in the NFL. I don't think Kyler has the outlying issues that Jameis had, specifically, but if one goes back to look at my posts, I've made this comparison in his first two years multiple times. As a group, the board likes to act like he's arrived... when he's a middle of the road QB in record and stats.

And I'm literally wearing a Kyler Murray jersey as I type this! I drafted him in Dynasty, I've got a trade in the works for him in another fantasy league... he's likely the best Cardinals QB that's ever been homegrown. But we keep talking like he's arrived, just like Bucs fans did about Jameis.

I'm sure Bucs fans were thrilled after year two with Winston. I'm relatively high on Kyler. I'm not anointing him yet.

Only Cam Newton has scored more TDs than Murray through his first two seasons...

 

[Krangodnzr]

He's not wrong. The NFL graveyard is littered with the bones of QBs that had similar or better starts to their careers. Especially if you take away his legs.

I get homerism. Especially with QBs. But he is an average passing QB at the moment. Especially in crucial areas such as intermediate passing and 3rd downs. He's far from arrived as an NFL QB. Big year for him this year.

The NFL graveyard isn't littered with guys like Kyler Murray. See post above.

 

[Solar7]

Only Cam Newton has scored more TDs than Murray through his first two seasons...

And Cam only made 3 Pro Bowls, and played a whopping 9 seasons (more like 8 given his last year was two games) for his team. He never won a championship and probably won't. Outside of '15, where they put the big hurt on us, his playoff record was poor.

The NFL graveyard isn't littered with guys like Kyler Murray. See post above.

Also see above. Cam's at the twilight of his career despite a hot statistical start.

 

[Mainstreet]

Kyler Murray has a long way to go as an NFL quarterback but that's a good thing. He is not a finished product at 24.

It's all right for him to have weaknesses and learn and grow from his mistakes as long as he embraces the hard work it takes to correct them.

I do hope the coaching and offensive system is the right one for him but that's another topic.

 

[Mainstreet]

After posting I suddenly realized the topic was Marco Wilson. I'm not sure what happened with that.

In regard to Marco Wilson, I really like the pick especially in the 4th round.

 

[Garthshort]

The NFL graveyard isn't littered with guys like Kyler Murray. See post above.

Yeah, but who cares about touchdowns? As SO MANY on this Board said, we should have stayed with Rosen.

 

[BritCard]

The NFL graveyard isn't littered with guys like Kyler Murray. See post above.

Take away his legs.

You're comparing Kyler as a running QB against mostly guys who are pocket QB's. QB's that can run like Kyler are a rare bread.

Purely as a passer he's been average. Last year for example. 13th in passing yards. 29th in YPA (Cam Newton was garbage and had higher YPA). Bottom of the league on 3rd down. Bottom of the league on intermediate throws. 14th in passing TD's. 21st in passer rating.

There are weird statistical holes all over his game. His career completion percentage in our own 1-10 is only 34%. Our own 1-20 is only 58%. He's only 58% in final 2 minute drives. Only 50% under center.

He's only 58% when he has time in the pocket over 2.5 seconds. 71% when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds. Which suggests his stats are boosted by a lot of quick short throws.

Don't be fooled by these "Only Cam newton had more TD's in his first 2 seasons" or "Kyler is the first player ever to have 6000 passing yards and 1000 rushing yards while singing Yankee doodle dandy in his first 2 seasons" (I'm also not sure we want Cam Newton as the high watermark here)

There's a whole bunch of stuff it's still bad to pretty bad at. You can still like Kyler and be realistic about what he is.

You look at someone like Marcus Mariota through their early career and he was statistically better in nearly all these areas and Kyler has been better in others. The main difference between them is that Murray throws like 100 more balls a year and ended up with more yards but there's a lot less between them than you would think.

He's got a whole bunch to improve on this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Jameis Winston threw for over 4,000 yards his rookie year, got top three rookie records, and made the Pro Bowl. In year two, he was ranked by his peers as a top 60 player in the NFL. I don't think Kyler has the outlying issues that Jameis had, specifically, but if one goes back to look at my posts, I've made this comparison in his first two years multiple times. As a group, the board likes to act like he's arrived... when he's a middle of the road QB in record and stats.

And I'm literally wearing a Kyler Murray jersey as I type this! I drafted him in Dynasty, I've got a trade in the works for him in another fantasy league... he's likely the best Cardinals QB that's ever been homegrown. But we keep talking like he's arrived, just like Bucs fans did about Jameis.

I'm sure Bucs fans were thrilled after year two with Winston. I'm relatively high on Kyler. I'm not anointing him yet.

Well if you reread my post I’m pretty clear I’m not saying he’s arrived but rather that he wasn’t drafted just bc kk but wanted him. He’s proven his talent. Now it’s a matter of him maximizing it. That question is still very much open.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And Cam only made 3 Pro Bowls, and played a whopping 9 seasons (more like 8 given his last year was two games) for his team. He never won a championship and probably won't. Outside of '15, where they put the big hurt on us, his playoff record was poor.


Also see above. Cam's at the twilight of his career despite a hot statistical start.

Football is a team sport. The Panthers are kind of my second team I follow because almost all of my family lives in the Carolinas.

The Panthers consistently fielded offenses with poor OLs and few credible receivers. And they consistently ran an offense that didn't play to Cam's strengths.

You've been epically wrong on Kyler Murray and you still hedge your bets. He has been an offensive rookie of the year and a Pro Bowl QB in two years. He is literally posting historic numbers as a dual threat QB and has the second most TDs through two seasons. And all of this, as @BritCard has posted.....he is still a really flawed QB. He is still getting better, and even slight improvements will make a huge difference.

Where I stand is that I think Murray is the reason for the Cardinals success, but his flaws are also severely hurting Kingsbury's ability to scheme. I'm not going to knock Kingsbury's scheme as much as a lot of people on this board because Murray clearly can't fully execute traditional NFL concepts just yet. It also didn't help Kingsbury that his assortment of receivers up until this year didn't really fit what he wanted to do either.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Take away his legs.

You're comparing Kyler as a running QB against mostly guys who are pocket QB's. QB's that can run like Kyler are a rare bread.

Purely as a passer he's been average. Last year for example. 13th in passing yards. 29th in YPA (Cam Newton was garbage and had higher YPA). Bottom of the league on 3rd down. Bottom of the league on intermediate throws. 14th in passing TD's. 21st in passer rating.

There are weird statistical holes all over his game. His career completion percentage in our own 1-10 is only 34%. Our own 1-20 is only 58%. He's only 58% in final 2 minute drives. Only 50% under center.

He's only 58% when he has time in the pocket over 2.5 seconds. 71% when he gets rid of the ball in under 2.5 seconds. Which suggests his stats are boosted by a lot of quick short throws.

Don't be fooled by these "Only Cam newton had more TD's in his first 2 seasons" or "Kyler is the first player ever to have 6000 passing yards and 1000 rushing yards while singing Yankee doodle dandy in his first 2 seasons" (I'm also not sure we want Cam Newton as the high watermark here)

There's a whole bunch of stuff it's still bad to pretty bad at. You can still like Kyler and be realistic about what he is.

You look at someone like Marcus Mariota through their early career and he was statistically better in nearly all these areas and Kyler has been better in others. The main difference between them is that Murray throws like 100 more balls a year and ended up with more yards but there's a lot less between them than you would think.

He's got a whole bunch to improve on this year.

I agree. Murray has a ton of improvements he has to make.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Back to talking about Marco Wilson.

PFF gave him another really good grade, a 74 if I remember correctly. I think we will see quite a bit of Marco Wilson this year.

 

[BritCard]

Football is a team sport. The Panthers are kind of my second team I follow because almost all of my family lives in the Carolinas.

The Panthers consistently fielded offenses with poor OLs and few credible receivers. And they consistently ran an offense that didn't play to Cam's strengths.

You've been epically wrong on Kyler Murray and you still hedge your bets. He has been an offensive rookie of the year and a Pro Bowl QB in two years. He is literally posting historic numbers as a dual threat QB and has the second most TDs through two seasons. And all of this, as @BritCard has posted.....he is still a really flawed QB. He is still getting better, and even slight improvements will make a huge difference.

Where I stand is that I think Murray is the reason for the Cardinals success, but his flaws are also severely hurting Kingsbury's ability to scheme. I'm not going to knock Kingsbury's scheme as much as a lot of people on this board because Murray clearly can't fully execute traditional NFL concepts just yet. It also didn't help Kingsbury that his assortment of receivers up until this year didn't really fit what he wanted to do either.

I used to watch quite a bit of Cam when I was neutral. He was no doubt fun to watch, especially in his early years. There are a lot of parallels with Kyler though.

There was a lot of hype around Cam early in his career because he was electric to watch. A lot of splash plays with his legs. Some howitzer throws. All of which covered up some pretty gaping holes in his game which hid what an average passer he was and a poor record (Cam only has 3 winning seasons in 10).

I feel like fans have always made excuses for him because of that hype, but maybe that's just who Cam really is. A freak athlete who is a pretty average QB when you remove his legs.

We will see, big year for both Kliff and Kyler.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I used to watch quite a bit of Cam when I was neutral. He was no doubt fun to watch, especially in his early years. There are a lot of parallels with Kyler though.

There was a lot of hype around Cam early in his career because he was electric to watch. A lot of splash plays with his legs. Some howitzer throws. All of which covered up some pretty gaping holes in his game which hid what an average passer he was and a poor record (Cam only has 3 winning seasons in 10).

I feel like fans have always made excuses for him because of that hype, but maybe that's just who Cam really is. A freak athlete who is a pretty average QB when you remove his legs.

We will see, big year for both Kliff and Kyler.

I think Murray IS a better passer. Newton really struggled on deeper throws. He was at his best when he played in offenses that stressed shorter routes and Newton could sling it in there quicker.

Murray's biggest issue is his footwork. I've been happy to see Murray step up in the pocket more during TC, and I think that will help his accuracy significantly.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

We will see, big year for both Kliff and Kyler.

This

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Early adopter.

I have no doubt he will play a significant role this year

This guy gets it

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think Murray IS a better passer. Newton really struggled on deeper throws. He was at his best when he played in offenses that stressed shorter routes and Newton could sling it in there quicker.

Murray's biggest issue is his footwork. I've been happy to see Murray step up in the pocket more during TC, and I think that will help his accuracy significantly.

I see no comparison between Cam and Kyler, but I do see a strong comparison between Cam and Lamar Jackson

 

[cardncubfan]

I said on Youtube several time's we'd get this guy. He's an insane mover and arguably the most fluid Corner in the draft with just the sheer fluidity of his hips. He needs to be developed obviously. But the physical skillset is unbelievable. Instantly the most athletic guy in our secondary.

He will be a surprise in camp. Marc my word.

Nostradamus?