2020 1st round pick is Isaiah Simmons

Chopper0080

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Simmons wasn’t BPA? Cause he was.

he was rated above all those offensive lineman
This is why mock drafts and media rankings are misleading. In a vacuum, no salary cap, no positional value, no rookie contract scale, no roster consideration and no scheme coordination, he probably was. But all of those things have to be considered. It generally costs more for top RTs than top ILBs. It is generally easier to find a starting quality ILB for a lower cost than a RT. If both pan out, Wirfs gives you significantly greater contract savings vs the top players at his position than Simmons will. Our roster had two vets at ILB in a read and react scheme and we drafted a positionless player who lacked LB instincts. We chose a player who does not help our young QB develop instead of a RT who would have helped our young QB develop.

People can keep banging this drum but in the end, an OT (there was an argument for both Wills and Wirfs) was the right move and they were the better prospects for the Cardinals.
 

football karma

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an OT (there was an argument for both Wills and Wirfs) was the right move and they were the better prospects for the Cardinals.
this is self evident at this point

doesnt mean Simmons wont be good, it just means a better prospect got picked after 8

it happens

the Cards passed on Ben Roethlisberger to take Fitz. probably a mistake, but i wouldnt call that draft a failure
 

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This is why mock drafts and media rankings are misleading. In a vacuum, no salary cap, no positional value, no rookie contract scale, no roster consideration and no scheme coordination, he probably was. But all of those things have to be considered. It generally costs more for top RTs than top ILBs. It is generally easier to find a starting quality ILB for a lower cost than a RT. If both pan out, Wirfs gives you significantly greater contract savings vs the top players at his position than Simmons will. Our roster had two vets at ILB in a read and react scheme and we drafted a positionless player who lacked LB instincts. We chose a player who does not help our young QB develop instead of a RT who would have helped our young QB develop.

People can keep banging this drum but in the end, an OT (there was an argument for both Wills and Wirfs) was the right move and they were the better prospects for the Cardinals.

I get it but RT is never as important as LT. The 3rd best RT is never better than the #1 LB.

I get what your saying and I would of loved to have Wirfs or Becton and I would of plugged both those guys in at guard. I’ll be honest I wasn’t to impressed with either and nobody on earth can tell me they were dominate lineman in college because they weren’t the stats will tell you the same. And by dominate I don’t mean good I mean dominate Orlando Pace, John Ogden, Joe Thomas blue chip dominate. Wirfs and Becton were considered good but Simmons was considered a guy who has potential to be generational and who knows he might be
 

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It can be the end of 2022 while Wirfs could have back-to-back All-Pros accolades while Simmons could just be an above-average player while we don’t have our RT situation figured out & most here will still say Simmons was the right pick.
 

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It can be the end of 2022 while Wirfs could have back-to-back All-Pros accolades while Simmons could just be an above-average player while we don’t have our RT situation figured out & most here will still say Simmons was the right pick.

I don't disagree with you and @Chopper0080 ...

But I'd rather have Simmons and Beachum than Wirfs and Campbell/Hicks.

That's how much I'm glad we don't have Campbell/Hicks as starters now. They were both the single worst part of the team last year.
 

Chopper0080

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I get it but RT is never as important as LT. The 3rd best RT is never better than the #1 LB.

I get what your saying and I would of loved to have Wirfs or Becton and I would of plugged both those guys in at guard. I’ll be honest I wasn’t to impressed with either and nobody on earth can tell me they were dominate lineman in college because they weren’t the stats will tell you the same. And by dominate I don’t mean good I mean dominate Orlando Pace, John Ogden, Joe Thomas blue chip dominate. Wirfs and Becton were considered good but Simmons was considered a guy who has potential to be generational and who knows he might be
The LT vs RT argument of importance is very outdated. Guys under good defensive coaches don't just play in one spot anymore. They find the best matchup and try to take advantage of it. OT, regardless of the side, will always be more valuable than ILB.

Also, Wirfs was the 4th OT taken but that doesn't mean he was the 4th best in the class. The best offensive tackle (which to date, Wirfs is and many on this board other than me were saying similar) is more valuable than the best ILB. And please do not pretend like the fractional prospect rating difference of media websites makes Simmons the significantly better prospect for the Cardinals.
 

Chopper0080

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I don't disagree with you and @Chopper0080 ...

But I'd rather have Simmons and Beachum than Wirfs and Campbell/Hicks.

That's how much I'm glad we don't have Campbell/Hicks as starters now. They were both the single worst part of the team last year.
Jeremy Chinn was taken 9 picks before we took Josh Jones. Malik Harrison who is starting for the Ravens was taken later in round 3. I know KJ Wright is unsigned, and multiple options at ILB were signed for under 6 mil.

There are always other options. I know that Humphries, Pugh, Hudson, and Wirfs looks better than that group with Beachum with where Kyler Murray is as a QB.
 

Shane

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It can be the end of 2022 while Wirfs could have back-to-back All-Pros accolades while Simmons could just be an above-average player while we don’t have our RT situation figured out & most here will still say Simmons was the right pick.

ok and what if Simmons is a dominant all pro and our RT serviceable?
 

Stout

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And yinz accuse me of setting up an echo chamber? We get it; you have very specific ideas about positions that you claim are gospel, and don't feel any differing opinions can possibly be valid. Doesn't make you right, and doesn't mean we have to keep arguing this. I mean, I finally let go on the RB thing. Can yinz finally let this one go?
 

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It can be the end of 2022 while Wirfs could have back-to-back All-Pros accolades while Simmons could just be an above-average player while we don’t have our RT situation figured out & most here will still say Simmons was the right pick.

hindsight is 20/20

Matt Lienart was a bust but guess what it was 100% the right pick to make at the time
 

Finito

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The LT vs RT argument of importance is very outdated. Guys under good defensive coaches don't just play in one spot anymore. They find the best matchup and try to take advantage of it. OT, regardless of the side, will always be more valuable than ILB.

Also, Wirfs was the 4th OT taken but that doesn't mean he was the 4th best in the class. The best offensive tackle (which to date, Wirfs is and many on this board other than me were saying similar) is more valuable than the best ILB. And please do not pretend like the fractional prospect rating difference of media websites makes Simmons the significantly better prospect for the Cardinals.

of course it matters that’s the QBs blind side if he’s right handed. That’s whole reason you just seen Orlando Brown traded. They wanted to pay him RT money(where he started) and he said no he’s a LT(where he played last year) he wants LT money

your argument is pretty much well everybody’s wrong I’m right. Like you even said he was the 4th tackle taken. He might turn out to be the best but yes at that time and date NFL teams clearly believed he was the 4th best tackle in the draft if they didn’t he would of gone higher plain and simple

but let me guess your now gonna tell me how nfl teams scout mean nothing.
 

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hindsight is 20/20

Matt Lienart was a bust but guess what it was 100% the right pick to make at the time
Well obviously. Big difference between drafting a potential franchise QB & a off-ball linebacker.
 

DVontel

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How many great offenses have been built around dominant RTs? How many great defenses have been built around dominant ILBs?
You build around QBs, but how do you do that? You build up the line by investing in the most important positions(LT & RT).


No one actively builds around off-ball linebackers in 2021(or really ever) except for Steve Keim of course(& old Jerry Jones).
 

juza76

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Ray Lewis?

For guys to start acting like linebacker are just worthless is funny

Yes is an important piece of the defense
But DVontel stated how important is to protect the most important position in football
If u have your franchise qb u must do anything u can to protect him and making him being more confident
We saw what happens with talented qb's behind a mediocre line
 
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Finito

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Yes is an important piece of the defense
But DVontel stated how important is to protect the most important position in football
If u have your franchise qb u must do anything u can to protect him and making here being more confident
We saw what happens with talented qb's behind a mediocre line

i get that but let’s not act like our tackles are horrible because that’s not the case.

this ain’t a David Carr Situation at all
 

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Yes is an important piece of the defense
But DVontel stated how important is to protect the most important position in football
If u have your franchise qb u must do anything u can to protect him and making him being more confident
We saw what happens with talented qb's behind a mediocre line

Our TRUE mediocrity was at RG not RT as it turned out in 2020.
 

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