2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Proximo]

So I just watched a very interesting video of a doctor talking about fultz's latest diagnosis.

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Basically it sounds like he is skeptical, but does not completely rule it out because he has not been able to examine him himself.

 

[Sunburn]

Yeah, I don't think that is the issue with him. Everyone knows he knows how to play basketball well.

Here are the issues.

1. His teammates do not speak positively about him. Some have actually publicly stated something is off when he is in the lineup and they play better without him.

2. Supporting this statement - look at their record. If he is really a top 20 nba player, and so is Beal - why is that team so bad?

3. His contract. He is guaranteed 37, 41,43, and 47 million per year for the next 4 years. The entire Salary cap is around 100 million right now. meaning he alone eats up a third of it - add in bookers contract which is less - but still nearly another third and two players take up nearly 2/3 of the Suns cap space. This means no free agents other than ones signing for the minimum for the next 4 years - and probably longer since Ayton and Bridges extensions will kick in as soon as walls contract ends.

So getting Wall means essentially other than draft picks you are looking at the Suns team for the next 4 years. Considering their complete ineptitude as of late - do you think John Wall along with our current set of players is the roster you want for the foreseeable future?

My answer is definite - NO. Only a top 5 player deserves a supermax contract, and wall is not even close to that.

What free agents ever come here? A massively overpaid trevor Ariza? Between Ariza and Ryan Anderson, there's your 40 million for Wall right there. Give me Wall.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Wizards have turned things around some recently also, winning 6 of their last 9. They're 11-14 riding a 3 game winning streak. That's not great but that has them 9th in the East, after being in last place through around 17-18 games. It wouldn't surprise me if they blew it up but they may not be in such a rush to do so now.

Once Dwight went down they seemed to start winning again. John Wall was the main player who recruited Dwight this last offseason and maybe he would be upset if he's canned but since they've played better without him, perhaps they pull a Houston/Melo and rid themselves of the player who has bounced around the last few years and hurt each team he's been on.

Also read that the Knicks have interest in Wall. Not sure if that matters or what they can offer but they are the Knicks and won't worry about paying Wall so they might do something stupid.

 

[Proximo]

What free agents ever come here? A massively overpaid trevor Ariza? Between Ariza and Ryan Anderson, there's your 40 million for Wall right there. Give me Wall.

The past does not predict the future. If Ayton and Booker reach their potential, attracting free agents will not be a problem - but if we have John Wall's contract it will be impossible.

Wall is at his peak, he will only get worse as times goes on, and his contract only gets worse. His contract will be unmovable - and frankly only a team as desperate as the suns would even consider trading for him now. It would be a stupid desperate move that has a 90% chance of making the team irrelevant for the next 5 years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Wizards have turned things around some recently also, winning 6 of their last 9. They're 11-14 riding a 3 game winning streak. That's not great but that has them 9th in the East, after being in last place through around 17-18 games. It wouldn't surprise me if they blew it up but they may not be in such a rush to do so now.

Once Dwight went down they seemed to start winning again. John Wall was the main player who recruited Dwight this last offseason and maybe he would be upset if he's canned but since they've played better without him, perhaps they pull a Houston/Melo and rid themselves of the player who has bounced around the last few years and hurt each team he's been on.

Also read that the Knicks have interest in Wall. Not sure if that matters or what they can offer but they are the Knicks and won't worry about paying Wall so they might do something stupid.

They've turned it around a couple of times this season only to revert to their season norm, I think it's more schedule than anything trending. And I don't see much of a difference really with Dwight Howard. The Wizards are 7 - 9 when Howard doesn't play, 4 -5 when he does.

 

[devilalum]

If you read between the lines you will find that the pecking order has more to do with amount of money a player makes than the quality of play.

When a player like Wall is getting paid half the teams payroll he better be pulling half the weight of the team.


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[Hoop Head]

They've turned it around a couple of times this season only to revert to their season norm, I think it's more schedule than anything trending. And I don't see much of a difference really with Dwight Howard. The Wizards are 7 - 9 when Howard doesn't play, 4 -5 when he does.

He missed games at the beginning of the season. Since he's been down with his latest injury, which required surgery, they've been 6-3. If they keep that up then maybe there is something there. Part of the issue some of his teammates in Charlotte had with him was that he didn't put much effort in. He played for fun rather than winning and tried selling others on that idea, fun first and winning being secondary. A team that is already teetering on the edge with other volatile personalities can't have someone like Dwight added without issue. There's a reason that other teams took on bad contracts to move Dwight. While his numbers are good his play isn't.

 

[devilalum]

He missed games at the beginning of the season. Since he's been down with his latest injury, which required surgery, they've been 6-3. If they keep that up then maybe there is something there. Part of the issue some of his teammates in Charlotte had with him was that he didn't put much effort in. He played for fun rather than winning and tried selling others on that idea, fun first and winning being secondary. A team that is already teetering on the edge with other volatile personalities can't have someone like Dwight added without issue. There's a reason that other teams took on bad contracts to move Dwight. While his numbers are good his play isn't.

If you’re good you win. Winning is fun.


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[AzStevenCal]

He missed games at the beginning of the season. Since he's been down with his latest injury, which required surgery, they've been 6-3. If they keep that up then maybe there is something there. Part of the issue some of his teammates in Charlotte had with him was that he didn't put much effort in. He played for fun rather than winning and tried selling others on that idea, fun first and winning being secondary. A team that is already teetering on the edge with other volatile personalities can't have someone like Dwight added without issue. There's a reason that other teams took on bad contracts to move Dwight. While his numbers are good his play isn't.

I'm not a Howard fan at all but that team has a lot more problems than Dwight. And yes, they are 6 - 3 of late but again schedule has a lot to do with it. They played well for a few games beating New Orleans, Clippers and the up and down Rockets but they closed out that 9 game stretch with 3 wins against the easier NBA opponents (Brooklyn, New York and Atlanta). They had a 3 game winning streak earlier this season with easier opponents when Howard was playing too so like I said, schedule matters.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Hard pass.

 

[elindholm]

I was pro-Wall a few weeks ago, but not anymore. The Suns are even worse than I thought, and he isn't enough to get them anywhere.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm a no for Wall as well. It would tie the Suns hands for years to come and if it doesn't work out they are stuck. Hopefully the Suns have learned their lesson by tying up money with Brandon Knight and he had a more reasonable contract.

 

[SirStefan32]

I still have PTSD from Hardaway/ Googliota incident.

 

[Mainstreet]

So much for Dinwiddie.

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[Mainstreet]

So while the Suns may have found a temporary starter at point guard in Austin Rivers there are some signs Anthony Melton could be the PGOTF.

Evan Sidery weighs in.

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[Mainstreet]

It's food for thought. I like what I have seen from Melton.

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[taz02]

Melton looks pretty good so far. I've only caught parts of the last few games but he doesn't seem to make a lot of mistakes and his defense looks good too.

It would be huge if our future PG was already on the team. With Melton coming along, the surprising play of Holmes and Ayton's new found defense the team looks to be much improved. I hope it continues on this trajectory.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's food for thought. I like what I have seen from Melton.

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The reason Melton slipped was because he had not played basketball in a year. But yes, his shooting was a question mark too. He gets after it defensively, which is nice.

 

[Mainstreet]

The reason Melton slipped was because he had not played basketball in a year. But yes, his shooting was a question mark too. He gets after it defensively, which is nice.

I think Melton will eventually start. He has the aggressiveness one like to see in a young player. For this reason I think an average starter for the Suns will suffice for now.

Unfortunately Melton is on a two year contract instead of four contract like Okobo. The Suns need to extend him if possible.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Rivers and Melton should be fine this season
but our pg of the future needs to be a smart, creative passer
when we invested in AYTON over Doncic and others
we knew we'd only realize his potential when paired with a crafty facilitator

a key criticism of the Sarver regime has been lack of a team identity/game plan
--having 3 above average point guards at the same time, then having only backups
and drafting and trading for duplicate parts at other positions

the plan over the next year needs to be to make a starting pg
the 3rd most important piece of this team
Booker + Ayton + ?

iow, we should only plan on Rivers, Melton, or Okobo being our Backup Point Guard Of The Future

the Suns probably have their best center combo ever in Ayton and Holmes
both are young and need to be properly fed

 

[1Sun]

Rivers and Melton should be fine this season
but our pg of the future needs to be a smart, creative passer
when we invested in AYTON over Doncic and others
we knew we'd only realize his potential when paired with a crafty facilitator

a key criticism of the Sarver regime has been lack of a team identity/game plan
--having above average point guards then having only backups
and drafting and trading for duplicate parts at other positions

the plan over the next year needs to be to make a starting pg
the 3rd most important piece of this team
Booker + Ayton + ?

iow, we should plan on Rivers, Melton, or Okobo being our backup Point Guard Of The Future

with Ayton and Holmes, the Suns are probably the best they've ever been at center
both are young and need to be properly fed

Rivers is gone after this seadon. We need to plan on either Melton or Okobo being our back-up combo guard of the future in the Leandro Barbose role and consider using the other one as a trade chip to acquire one of what I believe our greatest needs to be:

1. A veteran distributing NBA veteran starting point guard who is a good, reliable, smart passer, has a good enough outside shot to keep opposing defenses honest and who is at least an average and willing defender; and

2. A veteran NBA veteran starting power forward who is a solid rebounder who can share that burden with Ayton, who is a solid and versatile defender and who has enough of a jump shot to keep our offensive spacing what it needs to be.

I've discussed at length the realistic options available for #1 (and I'm afraid they're not that great, with Dragic, Rubio, Russell or Teague likely being the best we can do, and then only if we overpay drastically).

For #2, I concur that Randle would be ideal. Mirotic might work there as well. I don't think Harris is realistic, nor do I think he brings what we need at that position in terms of rebounding and defense. I'm kind of at a loss for who else might be realistically available to fill this need.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe it's time to give Tyler Ulis another opportunity.

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[sdscard4]

Maybe it's time to give Tyler Ulis another opportunity.

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No

 

[JCSunsfan]

Maybe it's time to give Tyler Ulis another opportunity.

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Tyler Ulis cannot fit with our present defensive identity.