2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Yuma]

totally disagree. the west isn't stacked... it's as mediocre as it's ever been. It's a bunch of middling teams, all extremely flawed.

Tell that to the Eastern Conference!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Tell that to the Eastern Conference!

why? The Eastern Conference has three legit good teams in it, including the second and third best teams in the entire league.

People keep living in this "the West is the best, the East is the least" mentality that's been the case for years, but the league is different now. There are finally legit superstars/difference makers in the East and they're all leading their teams and coming up... Greek Freak, Kawai, arguably the second best big 3 in the league in Philly, and Boston looks like their getting their ish together. And even outside of those 4 good teams, you have another four teams playing good ball as well.

Actually, when you take a closer look around the league, there is a serious balance throughout for the first time in... i can't even remember how long. Each league has 6 or so teams at 5 games over .500, then some hovering around .500.

Not that any of it matters... once GS gets healthy and gets their ish, together, I still don't think there's anyone that can really challenge them in a 7 game series. At least not with the way teams are currently constructed.

 

[Carolinacacti]

The Eastern Conference has three legit good teams in it,

Let them play Golden state for 7 games and get back with me. Hell LA would beat them all in seven.

 

[jlove]

Was wanting to see this move.

ArizonaSports.com: Phoenix Suns sign guard Jawun Evans to two-way contract - https://bit.ly/2Uq2oS7

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

totally disagree. the west isn't stacked... it's as mediocre as it's ever been. It's a bunch of middling teams, all extremely flawed.

It's not stacked in the sense that it is full of great teams, but in the sense that it only has one bad team. It is pretty unheard of for a conference to potentially have 14 teams all around .500 or better win percentages.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Was wanting to see this move.

ArizonaSports.com: Phoenix Suns sign guard Jawun Evans to two-way contract - https://bit.ly/2Uq2oS7

Many of us were expecting it and wondered why it hadn't already happened? He doesn't solve all our PG problems but hopefully he'll help a little.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not stacked in the sense that it is full of great teams, but in the sense that it only has one bad team. It is pretty unheard of for a conference to potentially have 14 teams all around .500 or better win percentages.

Yeah, right now the West looks like parity plus Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's not stacked in the sense that it is full of great teams, but in the sense that it only has one bad team. It is pretty unheard of for a conference to potentially have 14 teams all around .500 or better win percentages.

ah. that i agree with.

 

[Proximo]

i have a bad feeling about the comments coming out of Jones' mouth about shifting away from the draft and winning with veterans

winning what? another few games this season?

i'm up for moving Ariza and the Milwaukee pick after the 15th
for a stabilizing point guard
or even for the Fultz experiment

but we sucked too hard to give up all that suckage that has earned us another top pick

i don't support giving up that asset for the kind of veteran that would be available right now
--under this organization as it is now constituted

i don't trust the current leadership to make any big move right now

Here is the thing though, and why I more or less agree with the strategy. Tanking is really no longer rewarded. Teams with the worst record have a much higher chance of getting the 5th pick vs the 1st now. The fifth pick in many drafts turns out to be worthless.

Not to mention the suns have plenty of project players already. Now don't get me wrong if they get the first or second pick and trade it away I am going to be pissed, especially if it is the first and getting Zion.

I actually think if we get the fourth pick or lower, trading it for veterans makes sense. This team more than anything right now needs more NBA caliber players that are ready to play immediately.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm glad to see the Suns sign Jawun Evans to a two-way contract. The have had that second slot open all season. The Suns can bring him up now and then to see if he can help the club.

 

[Mainstreet]

With the NAZ Suns Evans averaged 18.5 points, 4.6 assists with 3.3 TOV.

https://gleague.nba.com/player/jawun-evans/

 

[BC867]

With the NAZ Suns Evans averaged 18.5 points, 4.6 assists with 3.3 TOV.

https://gleague.nba.com/player/jawun-evans/

How is he on defense?

 

[Mainstreet]

How is he on defense?

BC, I haven't seen him play but here are his 2017-18 NBA stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/evansja01.html

I'm sure someone who has seen him play in college or the NBA can give more insight.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here is the thing though, and why I more or less agree with the strategy. Tanking is really no longer rewarded. Teams with the worst record have a much higher chance of getting the 5th pick vs the 1st now. The fifth pick in many drafts turns out to be worthless.

Not to mention the suns have plenty of project players already. Now don't get me wrong if they get the first or second pick and trade it away I am going to be pissed, especially if it is the first and getting Zion.

I actually think if we get the fourth pick or lower, trading it for veterans makes sense. This team more than anything right now needs more NBA caliber players that are ready to play immediately.

Teams have gotten lucky but I don't think tanking has really been rewarded in quite some time. It's why Hinkie's approach was so revolutionary. He didn't tank, he cleared the cupboards so they'd be the bottom dweller and got the ownership group to agree with losing big until they got their stars, no matter how long it took. Tanking has always been a huge gamble but it's like a family trip to Vegas, if your wife lets you double down plus on red until it finally hits, anyone can be a winner at tanking roulette.

But I agree with most of what you say. I'm all for trading the pick but only at the right time and only for the right player. For as long as Zion looks the future of the league and as long as we look like we probably have that 14% chance or greater to get him, I'd keep the pick. It would take a pretty special veteran for me to willingly part with that pick while it still looks primed to hit the top.

 

[taz02]

Teams have gotten lucky but I don't think tanking has really been rewarded in quite some time. It's why Hinkie's approach was so revolutionary. He didn't tank, he cleared the cupboards so they'd be the bottom dweller and got the ownership group to agree with losing big until they got their stars, no matter how long it took. Tanking has always been a huge gamble but it's like a family trip to Vegas, if your wife lets you double down plus on red until it finally hits, anyone can be a winner at tanking roulette.

But I agree with most of what you say. I'm all for trading the pick but only at the right time and only for the right player. For as long as Zion looks the future of the league and as long as we look like we probably have that 14% chance or greater to get him, I'd keep the pick. It would take a pretty special veteran for me to willingly part with that pick while it still looks primed to hit the top.

Good point. on the other hand the opportunity to have a 14% chance at getting Zion likely has alot of value. That has to be considered.

If you had the number one pick it would be hard to trade but trading the 14% chance for the right player might be worth it?

 

[Mainstreet]

The word on Jawun Evans is he can make some crazy good passes but players had trouble handling some of them in the G-League.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good point. on the other hand the opportunity to have a 14% chance at getting Zion likely has alot of value. That has to be considered.

If you had the number one pick it would be hard to trade but trading the 14% chance for the right player might be worth it?

Absolutely and I should be more clear. I'm just against treating it like your average high pick in your average draft. I think Zion is special, very special and we should treasure even a 14% chance at him. If someone offers us a prime aged star for that pick, it would be tough to turn it down. But I'd lose my lunch (breakfast and dinner too) if we traded it away for an average veteran.

 

[Hoop Head]

Absolutely and I should be more clear. I'm just against treating it like your average high pick in your average draft. I think Zion is special, very special and we should treasure even a 14% chance at him. If someone offers us a prime aged star for that pick, it would be tough to turn it down. But I'd lose my lunch (breakfast and dinner too) if we traded it away for an average veteran.

Out of curiosity, who would you say fits those molds, prime aged star and average veteran?

I would think Lillard and Kemba might be the prime aged stars with someone like Jeff Teague or Darren Collison as more of an average veteran. They don't need to be PG's but I think that's what we would be looking for. Outside of Kevin Love I can't think of any PF's on the trade market who would come close to be worth a lottery pick and his play may be close to prime aged star his contract lowers that closer to average veteran.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Out of curiosity, who would you say fits those molds, prime aged star and average veteran?

I would think Lillard and Kemba might be the prime aged stars with someone like Jeff Teague or Darren Collison as more of an average veteran. They don't need to be PG's but I think that's what we would be looking for. Outside of Kevin Love I can't think of any PF's on the trade market who would come close to be worth a lottery pick and his play may be close to prime aged star his contract lowers that closer to average veteran.

Lillard is really the only one that comes to mind for me without looking through rosters. I'd prefer Kemba but I don't know how feasible that is (or Lillard for that matter). But I worry about using that pick in a trade for Dragic or Wall, for different reasons either move would be incredibly short-sighted IMO.

 

[Western Font]

Here is the thing though, and why I more or less agree with the strategy. Tanking is really no longer rewarded. Teams with the worst record have a much higher chance of getting the 5th pick vs the 1st now. The fifth pick in many drafts turns out to be worthless.

Not to mention the suns have plenty of project players already. Now don't get me wrong if they get the first or second pick and trade it away I am going to be pissed, especially if it is the first and getting Zion.

I actually think if we get the fourth pick or lower, trading it for veterans makes sense. This team more than anything right now needs more NBA caliber players that are ready to play immediately.

Here are the last ten #5s:

Trae Young
De’Aaron Fox
Kris Dunn
Mario Hezonja
Dante Exum
Alex Len
Thomas Robinson
Jonas Valanciunas
DeMarcus Cousins
Ricky Rubio

Some definite misses, but I’d say altogether a valuable pick. Of course I couldn’t help noticing players that were drafted in the next 10 over the same period:

Curry, DeRozan, Hayward, George, Kemba, Klay, Lillard, Drummond, McCollum, Adams, Kawhi, Giannis, and Booker.

Anyway, I don’t want to trade this year’s pick until we have an idea where it will land, if not until after the lottery itself. We’re probably not getting Zion, but the team is so bad. The odds are high for the opportunity to draft someone good even without tanking.

 

[sdscard4]

I don't even think this front office knows how to trade. It's going to be scary watching this unfold

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Been watching Wall's previous games this season. He looks pretty damn good to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Been watching Wall's previous games this season. He looks pretty damn good to me.

He's been putting up pretty good numbers the past 3 weeks or so but not 45 Million worth. And as good as his numbers look, it's alarming to me how often his team plays better when he's not on the court. For example, his plus/minus for the last 10 games (5 wins, 5 losses) are -11, -28, +6, -10, +13, -8, -19, -19, +14, -5.

 

[taz02]

Absolutely and I should be more clear. I'm just against treating it like your average high pick in your average draft. I think Zion is special, very special and we should treasure even a 14% chance at him. If someone offers us a prime aged star for that pick, it would be tough to turn it down. But I'd lose my lunch (breakfast and dinner too) if we traded it away for an average veteran.

I agree, if you trade the pick that ends up being Zion, and he plays in the NBA anything like his college highlights it would be an epic miss that the franchise would never live down.

 

[Proximo]

Been watching Wall's previous games this season. He looks pretty damn good to me.

Yeah, I don't think that is the issue with him. Everyone knows he knows how to play basketball well.

Here are the issues.

1. His teammates do not speak positively about him. Some have actually publicly stated something is off when he is in the lineup and they play better without him.

2. Supporting this statement - look at their record. If he is really a top 20 nba player, and so is Beal - why is that team so bad?

3. His contract. He is guaranteed 37, 41,43, and 47 million per year for the next 4 years. The entire Salary cap is around 100 million right now. meaning he alone eats up a third of it - add in bookers contract which is less - but still nearly another third and two players take up nearly 2/3 of the Suns cap space. This means no free agents other than ones signing for the minimum for the next 4 years - and probably longer since Ayton and Bridges extensions will kick in as soon as walls contract ends.

So getting Wall means essentially other than draft picks you are looking at the Suns team for the next 4 years. Considering their complete ineptitude as of late - do you think John Wall along with our current set of players is the roster you want for the foreseeable future?

My answer is definite - NO. Only a top 5 player deserves a supermax contract, and wall is not even close to that.