2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[Cheesebeef]

I'll say this much, I think people are trying REALLY hard to see improvement in Bender.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'll say this much, I think people are trying REALLY hard to see improvement in Bender.

Well, he has all the crap you can't teach- basketball IQ and understanding of the game. His shot has definitely improved, he is looking good defensively, and he shows enough flashes for me to be optimistic. He's still a kid. I just wish he would get more aggressive. Every few games, he'll drive to the hoop and show us what he is capable of. The problem is that it only happens once every few games. I wish he had half of Jackson's aggressiveness.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'll say this much, I think people are trying REALLY hard to see improvement in Bender.

I think it's quite the opposite and there are a few people that are too hung up on thinking he's a bust to admit that he's showing solid BB-IQ on both sides of the court. He doesn't play like a 7 footer in that he's not someone who battles in the paint but he contributes by being in the right place and making the right moves and choices defensively. On offense he needs to start being more aggressive and stay off the 3 point line but he's shooting those at a good clip this year so it's more about adding other elements to his game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So. Here is a highlight reel for Trae Young against USC. As you watch, ask yourself, "Could he make that same move in the NBA?" Curious on your feedback.

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[Mainstreet]

I'll say this much, I think people are trying REALLY hard to see improvement in Bender.

I'm guilty of trying to see improvement in Bender. Actually Chriss and Jackson as well. Hopefully at least one will develop into a star although I'm not feeling good about it. I keep waiting for some Devin Booker type moments from them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So. Here is a highlight reel for Trae Young against USC. As you watch, ask yourself, "Could he make that same move in the NBA?" Curious on your feedback.

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Hmm that’s really interesting. That’s the first of him I’ve really watched. He’s effective, but doesn’t blow me away. Makes the right pass for assists, but only two of the assists seemed to be him creating shots. And he’s a good shooter, but a bigger defender likely takes that away. And the whole “ball on a string” thing isn’t evident . . . at least in those highlights. I’m not ready to say I wouldn’t be excited about him, but I don’t see Curry.

There have been other dominant college players who didn’t pan out in the pros due to physical limitations. I’d need to see more of Young before saying I think he falls into that category, but based on this admittedly very limited highlights I wouldn’t be surprised if he fell into that camp.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm guilty of trying to see improvement in Bender. Actually Chriss and Jackson as well. Hopefully at least one will develop into a star although I'm not feeling good about it. I keep waiting for some Devin Booker type moments from them.

I think we all are. I mean, even in Stefan's post he says he sees him take it to the hoop once every couple games as signs of talent. But think about that... ONCE every couple games? As a second year guy, the #4 pick has shown his biggest burst in a game has been... 11 points and 10 rebounds? He's only scored double digits 4 times in 30 games? And he's shooting 37% overall?

Come on folks... if you took away his draft position and you were just watching this guy play, you'd be seriously hard pressed to see this great potential some talk about here. All this talk of everything else he brings and flashes is anything a scrub could do once in a blue moon.

I'm not worried about Jackson yet. I'll give him a year and Chriss just seems like a headache.

I think it's quite the opposite and there are a few people that are too hung up on thinking he's a bust to admit that he's showing solid BB-IQ on both sides of the court. He doesn't play like a 7 footer in that he's not someone who battles in the paint but he contributes by being in the right place and making the right moves and choices defensively. On offense he needs to start being more aggressive and stay off the 3 point line but he's shooting those at a good clip this year so it's more about adding other elements to his game.

sorry, but the basketball IQ defense is used so often for this guy because there's no actual tangible evidence of him contributing. I think he looks like a bust so far... because he looks and plays like a bust. People kept trying to see the best in Len also, gave him the same excuses (hasn't played basketball that long... Euro... shows flashes") but see the same thing. A tall guy who moves okay for a tall guy... and that's about it. And the most concerning thing to me is his rebounding/agressiveness is getting WORSE as the season goes on. And that started before he got the Mask (which is just another excuse, IMO).

Reality is if Bender’s name was Jackson Vrohman, no one would tout his potential in any way, shape or form.

 

[hcsilla]

Hmm that’s really interesting. That’s the first of him I’ve really watched. He’s effective, but doesn’t blow me away. Makes the right pass for assists, but only two of the assists seemed to be him creating shots. And he’s a good shooter, but a bigger defender likely takes that away. And the whole “ball on a string” thing isn’t evident . . . at least in those highlights. I’m not ready to say I wouldn’t be excited about him, but I don’t see Curry.

There have been other dominant college players who didn’t pan out in the pros due to physical limitations. I’d need to see more of Young before saying I think he falls into that category, but based on this admittedly very limited highlights I wouldn’t be surprised if he fell into that camp.

Yes, talented player but questionmarks about being able to convert this on NBA-level.

Quick release, NBA 3P-range, nice hesitation move, definitely above average passing skills, takes crazy shots and can hit them.

Otherwise: I don't know. Narrow frame, speedy, but isn't really an athlete. Fantastic season start but I have serious doubts that he can keep his +22 PPG.

From a freshman these are unbelievable numbers.

 

[Chaplin]

I think we all are. I mean, even in Stefan's post he says he sees him take it to the hoop once every couple games as signs of talent. But think about that... ONCE every couple games? As a second year guy, the #4 pick has shown his biggest burst in a game has been... 11 points and 10 rebounds? He's only scored double digits 4 times in 30 games? And he's shooting 37% overall?

Come on folks... if you took away his draft position and you were just watching this guy play, you'd be seriously hard pressed to see this great potential some talk about here. All this talk of everything else he brings and flashes is anything a scrub could do once in a blue moon.

I'm not worried about Jackson yet. I'll give him a year and Chriss just seems like a headache.



sorry, but the basketball IQ defense is used so often for this guy because there's no actual tangible evidence of him contributing. I think he looks like a bust so far... because he looks and plays like a bust. People kept trying to see the best in Len also, gave him the same excuses (hasn't played basketball that long... Euro... shows flashes") but see the same thing. A tall guy who moves okay for a tall guy... and that's about it. And the most concerning thing to me is his rebounding/agressiveness is getting WORSE as the season goes on. And that started before he got the Mask (which is just another excuse, IMO).

Well, Chriss has regressed, so even a sliver of improvement is positive for Bender. Also keep in mind how he has been coached. Yes, it looks like he might have aggressiveness issues, but he's not being coached efficiently IMO. And that's not on Bender.

 

[Mainstreet]

So. Here is a highlight reel for Trae Young against USC. As you watch, ask yourself, "Could he make that same move in the NBA?" Curious on your feedback.

I think Trae Young can make almost any move he wants because of his his speed and the ability to shoot the ball with a hand in his face. Also he has a variety of shots including a floater. This means he should be able to adapt to the NBA game.

Did you have a particular concern?

 

[SirStefan32]

So, I haven't seen this kid play in a game yet, but from watching the highlights, his shot appears to be deadly, but I think his release is kind of low. That said, it is also very quick, so it should be OK. I am not seeing this "lack of athleticism" in these highlights. I don't see explosiveness, but he seems pretty quick, athletic, and balanced to me. He seems to be a good passer. There were some crazy passes there, though most of them were simple, right passes, which is OK. I always appreciated the players who could make a simple pass, and was never impressed with folks like Jason Williams. This kid does two things very well- shoot and pass. I think that will translate. He may get blocked a bit more in the NBA, but that's OK. Suns need shooting, passing, play making. He seems to fit the bill.

Highlights don't show his defense, so I will be watching him on that end when I get a chance to watch a real game.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think we all are. I mean, even in Stefan's post he says he sees him take it to the hoop once every couple games as signs of talent. But think about that... ONCE every couple games? As a second year guy, the #4 pick has shown his biggest burst in a game has been... 11 points and 10 rebounds? He's only scored double digits 4 times in 30 games? And he's shooting 37% overall?

Come on folks... if you took away his draft position and you were just watching this guy play, you'd be seriously hard pressed to see this great potential some talk about here. All this talk of everything else he brings and flashes is anything a scrub could do once in a blue moon.

I'm not worried about Jackson yet. I'll give him a year and Chriss just seems like a headache.



sorry, but the basketball IQ defense is used so often for this guy because there's no actual tangible evidence of him contributing. I think he looks like a bust so far... because he looks and plays like a bust. People kept trying to see the best in Len also, gave him the same excuses (hasn't played basketball that long... Euro... shows flashes") but see the same thing. A tall guy who moves okay for a tall guy... and that's about it. And the most concerning thing to me is his rebounding/agressiveness is getting WORSE as the season goes on. And that started before he got the Mask (which is just another excuse, IMO).

Reality is if Bender’s name was Jackson Vrohman, no one would tout his potential in any way, shape or form.

He is also barely 20 years old, was hurt for a good part of his rookie season, is in a foreign country, and is still growing into his body.
I do wish he would show those flashes of what he is capable of more frequently, but there are a lot of factors in play here. I don't think he can be declared a bust yet. I am far more concerned with Chriss than I am with Bender.

EDIT: This is coming from someone who apparently gave a slight edge to Chriss long time ago:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3356590/

 

[elindholm]

Absolutely. The syntax as well as the attitude is all slinslin. I thought cloning and trying to hide yourself was against the rules here?

Maybe, but lots of posters have done it. Well, by lots, I really mean only two cases that I know of. One was the Irish music guy, who had a different incarnation every other year. The other is still trying to maintain the facade of being two different people and I agreed not to blow their cover.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He is also barely 20 years old, was hurt for a good part of his rookie season, is in a foreign country, and is still growing into his body.
I do wish he would show those flashes of what he is capable of more frequently, but there are a lot of factors in play here. I don't think he can be declared a bust yet. I am far more concerned with Chriss than I am with Bender.

EDIT: This is coming from someone who apparently gave a slight edge to Chriss long time ago:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/posts/3356590/

Again... I’m not declaring him a bust. I just think he hasn’t shown much and when the best thing anyone can say is he’s showing his basketball IQ, that ain’t saying much.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe, but lots of posters have done it. Well, by lots, I really mean only two cases that I know of. One was the Irish music guy, who had a different incarnation every other year. The other is still trying to maintain the facade of being two different people and I agreed not to blow their cover.

Really on the last part?

 

[Phrazbit]

Really on the last part?

You have no brother?!?! :wink:

 

[S_Nash]

Irish and George O'Brien

Geez that takes me back...

 

[Hoop Head]

sorry, but the basketball IQ defense is used so often for this guy because there's no actual tangible evidence of him contributing. I think he looks like a bust so far... because he looks and plays like a bust. People kept trying to see the best in Len also, gave him the same excuses (hasn't played basketball that long... Euro... shows flashes") but see the same thing. A tall guy who moves okay for a tall guy... and that's about it. And the most concerning thing to me is his rebounding/agressiveness is getting WORSE as the season goes on. And that started before he got the Mask (which is just another excuse, IMO).

Reality is if Bender’s name was Jackson Vrohman, no one would tout his potential in any way, shape or form.

The BB-IQ argument is used because his improved play isn't that measurable in box scores. If you're watching him play though you can tell he's much improved compared to last season and is making smart moves when he's on the court. You have to watch him, not the box scores or looking over advanced stats. That's not to say there isn't a lot of room for improvement but he's a better player than Chriss this season and he's shown enough that it's obvious he's improving. Comparing him to Len though doesn't make sense, they're both big Euro's but they play completely different styles. Bender seems more suited to play SF or PF and I don't see him ever becoming a Center in the NBA while Len has always been a Center. The only Sun I can think of to compare Bender to is Zarko Cabarkapa from 15 years ago, who did show some quality play before having his career killed by Danny Fortson. Hopefully Bender's time with the mask doesn't do the same to him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You have no brother?!?! :wink:

Ha!

 

[SirStefan32]

The BB-IQ argument is used because his improved play isn't that measurable in box scores. If you're watching him play though you can tell he's much improved compared to last season and is making smart moves when he's on the court. You have to watch him, not the box scores or looking over advanced stats. That's not to say there isn't a lot of room for improvement but he's a better player than Chriss this season and he's shown enough that it's obvious he's improving. Comparing him to Len though doesn't make sense, they're both big Euro's but they play completely different styles. Bender seems more suited to play SF or PF and I don't see him ever becoming a Center in the NBA while Len has always been a Center. The only Sun I can think of to compare Bender to is Zarko Cabarkapa from 15 years ago, who did show some quality play before having his career killed by Danny Fortson. Hopefully Bender's time with the mask doesn't do the same to him.

And that's they key- you have to watch HIM. Don't watch the game, don't watch anyone else. Watch HIM. Record the game, watch the game, then go back and watch Bender for a while. He'll make some mistakes, but for the most part, his fundamentals are incredibly strong for someone who just turned 20.

 

[Mainstreet]

The BB-IQ argument is used because his improved play isn't that measurable in box scores. If you're watching him play though you can tell he's much improved compared to last season and is making smart moves when he's on the court. You have to watch him, not the box scores or looking over advanced stats. That's not to say there isn't a lot of room for improvement but he's a better player than Chriss this season and he's shown enough that it's obvious he's improving. Comparing him to Len though doesn't make sense, they're both big Euro's but they play completely different styles. Bender seems more suited to play SF or PF and I don't see him ever becoming a Center in the NBA while Len has always been a Center. The only Sun I can think of to compare Bender to is Zarko Cabarkapa from 15 years ago, who did show some quality play before having his career killed by Danny Fortson. Hopefully Bender's time with the mask doesn't do the same to him.

The lack of physicality and aggressiveness worries me the most about Bender. So far he has not shown the natural willingness to mix it up inside. His approach to the game is rather laid back. Actually I liked Zarko's game pre-injury to that of Bender.

I'm not writing Bender off... far from it, but I'd like to see him play more aggressive. I'm not sure aggressiveness can be coached. My hope rests with the fact that he is not fully physically developed, young and still learning how to play the game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The lack of physicality and aggressiveness worries me the most about Bender. So far he has not shown the natural willingness to mix it up inside. His approach to the game is rather laid back. Actually I liked Zarko's game pre-injury to that of Bender.

I'm not writing Bender off... far from it, but I'd like to see him play more aggressive. I'm not sure aggressiveness can be coached. My hope rests with the fact that he is not fully physically developed, young and still learning how to play the game.

Again. I am not sure this is Bender so much as where he is placed in the offense. I could be wrong, but that is how it looks to me.

 

[elindholm]

Again. I am not sure this is Bender so much as where he is placed in the offense. I could be wrong, but that is how it looks to me.

I agree that Bender moves decently well for someone his size, but he has no offensive skills, so he is going to look out of place in the offense no matter how he is used. It's like trying to figure out where in the meal to serve the Taco Bell chalupa during a $300/plate reception.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree that Bender moves decently well for someone his size, but he has no offensive skills, so he is going to look out of place in the offense no matter how he is used. It's like trying to figure out where in the meal to serve the Taco Bell chalupa during a $300/plate reception.

Anything but dessert? I feel like you've either never had a chalupa or you secretly think Bender is an all time great.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You have no brother?!?! :wink:

Ha!