2016-17 Around the NBA

[Mainstreet]

The situation in Portland with their cap is a clear example of why the Suns need to be weary when it comes to TJ Warren's situation and, so far, have been very wise with Alex Len. Even with this huge cap, you can still get into cap hell if you extend every one of your role players. You end up with a hugely expensive team. Yeah, they've got depth... they also only have about 3 guys worthy of being starters.

I mostly agree.

However, TJ Warren looks like he is on his way up. Waiting to match as a RFA can be a mistake as well if he blossoms.

 

[sunsfan88]

Kyrie is a borderline superstar. That's just a fact. That trade would be considered a steal universally--which is why it won't happen.

Yeah I think people just assume that the superstar label is only for generational talents like Kobe, Lebron, KD etc.

It can also be applied to guys like Griffin, Draymond Green, DeAndre Jordan etc who are all basically players that #2 options on their respective title teams.

#2 and sometimes #3 option guys on championship contenders are eligible to be labeled "superstars" imo. Obviously not on the same scale as the #1 guys but still.

 

[Phrazbit]

Kyrie is not a superstar. One 3rd team All-NBA, wouldn't crack the all-star team out West.

 

[devilalum]

I am sure this is just a coincidence. LeBron, DRose, and EBled working out together in Vegas as we speak.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...c-bledsoe-reportedly-working-out-in-las-vegas

Don't they work out together every summer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[devilalum]

Yeah I think people just assume that the superstar label is only for generational talents like Kobe, Lebron, KD etc.

It can also be applied to guys like Griffin, Draymond Green, DeAndre Jordan etc who are all basically players that #2 options on their respective title teams.

#2 and sometimes #3 option guys on championship contenders are eligible to be labeled "superstars" imo. Obviously not on the same scale as the #1 guys but still.

Superstar is pretty subjective.
I like all NBA first team defense or finals MVP or all NBA first team etc


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[Ronin]

SLAM Magazine‏Verified account@SLAMonline 3m3 minutes ago
Mike Miller says Kyrie Irving is "definitely interested" in playing for the Nuggets http://slam.ly/kyrie-nuggets

 

[Ronin]

CBS Sports NBA‏Verified account@CBSSportsNBA
Cavs owner Dan Gilbert expects Kyrie Irving to be with team for training camp https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavs-owner-dan-gilbert-expects-kyrie-irving-to-be-with-team-for-training-camp/…

 

[GatorAZ]

Kyrie is not a superstar. One 3rd team All-NBA, wouldn't crack the all-star team out West.

One of my pet peeves is the term "superstar" thrown around so loosely. Kyrie isn't top-5 at his position. He's on the Lillard-level right now but younger.

 

[devilalum]

Nm

 

[Raze]

Yeah I think people just assume that the superstar label is only for generational talents like Kobe, Lebron, KD etc.

It can also be applied to guys like Griffin, Draymond Green, DeAndre Jordan etc who are all basically players that #2 options on their respective title teams.

#2 and sometimes #3 option guys on championship contenders are eligible to be labeled "superstars" imo. Obviously not on the same scale as the #1 guys but still.

Obviously it's a semantical and subjective argument, but I've always separated Superstars and Stars by the quality of their stats. A Superstar should be great in at least two stats and be able to take over games.

Superstars: Kevin Durant, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, Larry Bird... etc.

Stars are guys that either have only one solid stat line or had two but can't take over games. Reggie Miller was always a tough one for me. He could score 20+ and hit uber clutch shots, but statistically didn't do much else. He was probably SO clutch that I almost have to put him as a Superstar, but it's hard when your are so one dimensional (statistically speaking). Kyrie is similar to Reggie in this respect: they both are extremely clutch but don't really stand out for any other stat besides shooting/scoring. Reggie's D was good enough, Kyrie's is unspeakably bad.

Stars: Kyrie Irving, Dennis Rodman, Chris Mullin, DeAndre Jordan... etc.

It's not black and white, but it helps me differentiate tiers.

 

[Hoop Head]

How big of a name? He already had a starting marketing character (uncle drew) created for him.

I meant as far as on the court. Would he be regarded like a Harden, Curry, or Westbrook or would he be like a Kimba Walker?

 

[Finito]

Are these people serious I've actually read on this thread Kyrie Irving being called a black hole, Bledsoe is better than him, he's been compared to Brandon Knight and now Kemba Walker.

This guy is 24 years old 24 and is coming off averaging 29 points in the NBA finals and last year averaged 27 points a game in the NBA finals.

Make no mistake he is a legit top 15-20 player in the NBA. He's a legit go to get us a basket late in the game threat.

His defense isn't great but I swear you would think this is James Harden who by the way I would take in a heart beat also because the good out weighs the bad.

I have no idea what's happened to this board but Jesus, I swear guys here would complain about the Suns trading for Westbrook, Curry, Harden. You would think Boogie Cousins was some bum off the street the way he was talked about by some.

Just way to unrealistic.

 

[GatorAZ]

Are these people serious I've actually read on this thread Kyrie Irving being called a black hole, Bledsoe is better than him, he's been compared to Brandon Knight and now Kemba Walker.

This guy is 24 years old 24 and is coming off averaging 29 points in the NBA finals and last year averaged 27 points a game in the NBA finals.

Make no mistake he is a legit top 15-20 player in the NBA. He's a legit go to get us a basket late in the game threat.

His defense isn't great but I swear you would think this is James Harden who by the way I would take in a heart beat also because the good out weighs the bad.

I have no idea what's happened to this board but Jesus, I swear guys here would complain about the Suns trading for Westbrook, Curry, Harden. You would think Boogie Cousins was some bum off the street the way he was talked about by some.

Just way to unrealistic.

We had Kyrie Irving from 02-04' and it wasn't that great.

 

[Raze]

Are these people serious I've actually read on this thread Kyrie Irving being called a black hole, Bledsoe is better than him, he's been compared to Brandon Knight and now Kemba Walker.

This guy is 24 years old 24 and is coming off averaging 29 points in the NBA finals and last year averaged 27 points a game in the NBA finals.

Make no mistake he is a legit top 15-20 player in the NBA. He's a legit go to get us a basket late in the game threat.

His defense isn't great but I swear you would think this is James Harden who by the way I would take in a heart beat also because the good out weighs the bad.

I have no idea what's happened to this board but Jesus, I swear guys here would complain about the Suns trading for Westbrook, Curry, Harden. You would think Boogie Cousins was some bum off the street the way he was talked about by some.

Just way to unrealistic.

Look, I totally agree that the guy is an elite scorer. My jaw was dropped just like everyone else watching the Finals. The guy has mad game... when it comes to scoring. But the problem is with the rest of his game.

Bad D.
Questionable leader.
Assists? He was 21st in the league. He was behind Forwards. And he had LeBron to pass to.
Handles? Sure they're great, but primarily used for scoring since he doesn't really involve his teammates.
Doesn't rebound much. (Bledsoe is 50% more productive as a rebounder)

How did he score his 27 ppg? Every stinkin time he dribbles the ball up, ISO's on his defender, and breaks him down to score. His 4 other teammates are rendered useless unless they get the O board. So he's PURELY an ISO scorer, albeit a phenomenal one. He has NO other aspect of his game to offer.

And I'll agree that he appears to be top 15-20. Appears. Because everyone is so enamored with scoring. But basketball is a heck of a lot more than that. All the greats will tell you that.

Jordan scored 35 a night early in his career, but didn't win championships. That is, until he accepted the team concept and then coupled it with his unquenchable desire to be a great defender. That was when he became TRULY dominant.

Kobe could score at will, but in the Olympics he acquiesced scoring to his teammates and focused primarily on shutting down the opponents best player. His sacrifice won us the gold. (Hated Kobe in yellow and purple. LOVED him in red, white, and blue)

And that's what I want. Gold. I don't want All-Stars. I want gold. I don't care if we have top 15-20 players. I want players to come here to win us Championships. I want players who buy into the team concept and make sacrifices for the greater good. If they do that AND they're not considered top 20, so be it. How exactly has Kyrie shown that he'll do that?

 

[Chaplin]

Just a news flash -- apparently Kyrie and Booker started following each other on Instagram/Twitter tonight. Not sure how accurate that is, but take it as you will.

 

[Hoop Head]

Saw this trade suggested by a Cavs site. Can't see why the Suns would do this but thought I'd share it for the entertainment.

Cleveland makes out like bandits, only giving up Shumpert, Frye, and Felder and getting Bledsoe and Carmelo plus 2 picks from NY. New York does ok, getting Irving for Melo.

Cleveland Receives
– F Carmelo Anthony
– G Eric Bledsoe
– 2018 First Round Pick (NY, Top 5 Protected)
– 2020 First Round Pick (NY, Top 10 Protected)

New York Receives
– G Kyrie Irving


Phoenix Receives
– F Channing Frye
– G Iman Shumpert
– G Kay Felder
– 2018 Second Round Pick (NY, Unprotected)

https://cavsnation.com/how-carmelo-anthony-fits-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/

 

[Chaplin]

Saw this trade suggested by a Cavs site. Can't see why the Suns would do this but thought I'd share it for the entertainment.

Cleveland makes out like bandits, only giving up Shumpert, Frye, and Felder and getting Bledsoe and Carmelo plus 2 picks from NY. New York does ok, getting Irving for Melo.



https://cavsnation.com/how-carmelo-anthony-fits-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/

Where is the Suns incentive there? Getting rid of Bledsoe for scraps.

 

[Hoop Head]

Are these people serious I've actually read on this thread Kyrie Irving being called a black hole, Bledsoe is better than him, he's been compared to Brandon Knight and now Kemba Walker.

This guy is 24 years old 24 and is coming off averaging 29 points in the NBA finals and last year averaged 27 points a game in the NBA finals.

Make no mistake he is a legit top 15-20 player in the NBA. He's a legit go to get us a basket late in the game threat.

His defense isn't great but I swear you would think this is James Harden who by the way I would take in a heart beat also because the good out weighs the bad.

I have no idea what's happened to this board but Jesus, I swear guys here would complain about the Suns trading for Westbrook, Curry, Harden. You would think Boogie Cousins was some bum off the street the way he was talked about by some.

Just way to unrealistic.

There is a reason Irving is available. He's not a Westbrook, Harden, or Curry type of talent. He's a PG but a selfish "me first" type of PG. Is he really that much of an upgrade to Bledsoe? He's a worse defender and isn't that much better of a scorer. If he could be had for just Bledsoe, I think more people would be on board with the trade but it'll cost more than that, Bledsoe + one of our young pieces. People here were hesitant to include Chriss in a deal for Porzingis, which I didn't agree with, but if they were hesitant making that deal of course they'll question what we have to give up for Irving. Irving is older, 25, and is set on being the man on his own team. It's fine to want your own team, Joe Johnson wanted out for that reason years ago, unlike that situation though Kyrie is leaving a team that has won a championship and been to the finals the last 3 years and were favorites to return this year. Irving averages more shots than anyone on his team now, so it's not like he has to defer a lot in the situation he's in. It's fair to question a player who wants off of a team that is a championship contender. Would he rather play for stats or titles? It seems like stats based on what's come out recently and that's not the sort of player you give up a lot of pieces for.

He's not a Westbrook, Curry, or Harden type of talent. He's a good player but a below average PG. If we had a playmaker like Lebron, I'd be more interested in Irving but as a team's primary ball handler and facilitator he leaves a lot to be desired. Not sure why you brought up Cousins but he ultimately wasn't worth that much. A player is only worth what they can bring in and he was traded for a lottery talent and a lottery pick. Some people here wanted to throw all of our assets at the Kings for him, which would have gotten a deal done but he hasn't been able to win anywhere in the league so far, similar to irving. Sure he has talent but he's the type of big man the NBA is moving away from. Teams aren't successful building around plotting big men who work in the post and don't play defense. There are better options available like Drummond, who is younger, cheaper, and is a better defender. He also doesn't have the personality problems that Cousins has had.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I really hope suns dont do something stupid as in trading jackson for kyrie...

I like kyrie as a player but i dont see how he will lead the suns to that many more wins than bledsoe with jackson will.

So i guess if suns some how get kyrie it would be for warren bledsoe and picks? Wonder if bender would be included.

Doubt suns will get kyrie but will be fun to see where he ends up.

 

[Phrazbit]

Saw this trade suggested by a Cavs site. Can't see why the Suns would do this but thought I'd share it for the entertainment.

Cleveland makes out like bandits, only giving up Shumpert, Frye, and Felder and getting Bledsoe and Carmelo plus 2 picks from NY. New York does ok, getting Irving for Melo.



https://cavsnation.com/how-carmelo-anthony-fits-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/

Good god no. That is the kind of haul I'd expect in return for Knight. Bledsoe is actually a good player on a solid contract, that trade is absolute garbage. IMO we'd need to be getting, at least, one of those New York picks to even have that be a consideration.

 

[leclerc]

Sacramento just signed Bogdan Bogdanovic

Milos!

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[leclerc]

Nicholson played fairly well when he got the minutes in Orlando then his game seemed to slip away. He is the type player one can speculate that if he played for a different team he might have had a better career. However, more likely, he lacked the physical strength to be much more than a journeyman player like Earl Clark.

Earl who?

 

[Finito]

Look, I totally agree that the guy is an elite scorer. My jaw was dropped just like everyone else watching the Finals. The guy has mad game... when it comes to scoring. But the problem is with the rest of his game.

Bad D.
Questionable leader.
Assists? He was 21st in the league. He was behind Forwards. And he had LeBron to pass to.
Handles? Sure they're great, but primarily used for scoring since he doesn't really involve his teammates.
Doesn't rebound much. (Bledsoe is 50% more productive as a rebounder)

How did he score his 27 ppg? Every stinkin time he dribbles the ball up, ISO's on his defender, and breaks him down to score. His 4 other teammates are rendered useless unless they get the O board. So he's PURELY an ISO scorer, albeit a phenomenal one. He has NO other aspect of his game to offer.

And I'll agree that he appears to be top 15-20. Appears. Because everyone is so enamored with scoring. But basketball is a heck of a lot more than that. All the greats will tell you that.

Jordan scored 35 a night early in his career, but didn't win championships. That is, until he accepted the team concept and then coupled it with his unquenchable desire to be a great defender. That was when he became TRULY dominant.

Kobe could score at will, but in the Olympics he acquiesced scoring to his teammates and focused primarily on shutting down the opponents best player. His sacrifice won us the gold. (Hated Kobe in yellow and purple. LOVED him in red, white, and blue)

And that's what I want. Gold. I don't want All-Stars. I want gold. I don't care if we have top 15-20 players. I want players to come here to win us Championships. I want players who buy into the team concept and make sacrifices for the greater good. If they do that AND they're not considered top 20, so be it. How exactly has Kyrie shown that he'll do that?

Uh he's 24

You might not want him but you know who wanted him on his team... Lebron James

So Kyrie is good enough for Lebron James to look at him and say yeah I wanna play with that guy but Suns fans on this message board don't want him lol

 

[pokerface]

Uh he's 24

You might not want him but you know who wanted him on his team... Lebron James

So Kyrie is good enough for Lebron James to look at him and say yeah I wanna play with that guy but Suns fans on this message board don't want him lol

Ahh... we'd take him for the right price.

 

[Hoop Head]

Uh he's 24

You might not want him but you know who wanted him on his team... Lebron James

So Kyrie is good enough for Lebron James to look at him and say yeah I wanna play with that guy but Suns fans on this message board don't want him lol

He's actually 25. You keep saying he's 24 but he's not. If you're going to gush over a player that much at least have correct information. He's a great scorer but I agree with Raze on his deficiencies. He's not the world beater you think he is.

What would you trade for him? You seem enamored with him and want to dispute any knocks on his game, realistically what would you give up for him and where do you think he'd lead the Suns?