2016-17 Around the NBA

[Raze]

Yep, Suns will run with Bled, Booker, Warren ,Chandler and Chriss/Bender. This team can compete. Second unit is the one that worries me.

Interesting. I'd actual say that our 2nd unit is one of the strongest in the league: Ulis, Reed, Jackson, Williams, Bender. That's 2 # 4 picks and 3 guys beginning to make names for themselves.

It'd be tough to name many better 2nd units than that.

 

[Hoop Head]

Interesting. I'd actual say that our 2nd unit is one of the strongest in the league: Ulis, Reed, Jackson, Williams, Bender. That's 2 # 4 picks and 3 guys beginning to make names for themselves.

It'd be tough to name many better 2nd units than that.

The 2nd unit looks great on paper for us but it's unproven and no one outside of Phoenix knows what those players can do. I wouldn't be surprised to see this team exceed expectations similar to the 2013-14 Suns, if all things click.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think the Rose signing signals that Kyrie won't be going to New York. They could have facilitated a sign and trade to make the salaries work, if Kyrie would have been sent there. I'm surprised Rose signed a veteran minimum contract to go to Cleveland and be their backup. You'd think he'd be hoping to raise his value on a 1 year deal but how could he do that as a backup in Cleveland? There was talk of him going there before the Kyrie trade demands came in.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hopefully the Rose signing means they won't pursue Bledsoe thus no Kyrie in PHX.

Yep, Suns will run with Bled, Booker, Warren ,Chandler and Chriss/Bender. This team can compete. Second unit is the one that worries me.

Although Rose apparently will only sign for the veteran minimum salary of $2.1 million. This is putting a lot on Rose's shoulders.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-year-21-million-contract-cleveland-cavaliers

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the Rose signing signals that Kyrie won't be going to New York. They could have facilitated a sign and trade to make the salaries work, if Kyrie would have been sent there. I'm surprised Rose signed a veteran minimum contract to go to Cleveland and be their backup. You'd think he'd be hoping to raise his value on a 1 year deal but how could he do that as a backup in Cleveland? There was talk of him going there before the Kyrie trade demands came in.

My first thought was that Rose would be a backup as well.

 

[SirStefan32]

Interesting. I'd actual say that our 2nd unit is one of the strongest in the league: Ulis, Reed, Jackson, Williams, Bender. That's 2 # 4 picks and 3 guys beginning to make names for themselves.

It'd be tough to name many better 2nd units than that.

I was just about to say that- second unit of Ulis, Reed, Jackson (or Warren), Bender, and Williams has a lot of energy, scoring, and defense. With Warren instead of JJ, you lose some defense, but you get some serious scoring.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think the Rose signing has much to do with Kyrie's future, I cannot imagine they're expecting Rose to be the full time starter. No contending team would be foolish enough to entrust a role that important to Rose's knees.

 

[hsandhu]

This talk we're seeing today of possibly jackson/bledsoe for kyrie absolutely makes me sick.

If jackson is involved in any trade.... i dont know if I can do this anymore. I thought sarver was headed in the right direction, but that would be proof this organization is finished with him as the leader.

 

[Phrazbit]

This talk we're seeing today of possibly jackson/bledsoe for kyrie absolutely makes me sick.

If jackson is involved in any trade.... i dont know if I can do this anymore. I thought sarver was headed in the right direction, but that would be proof this organization is finished with him as the leader.

Well, it wouldn't be Sarver's doing, pretty sure he is letting the front office call the shots. But yes, that trade would leave me physically nauseous.

 

[devilalum]

Yep, Suns will run with Bled, Booker, Warren ,Chandler and Chriss/Bender. This team can compete. Second unit is the one that worries me.

JJ, Ulis, Bender. Throw in Duds and Sauce.


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[Hoop Head]

I don't want to see Kyrie come to Phoenix, even if the price is just Bledsoe, but if we had to part with Jackson also that would be worse than the Knight trade, IMO.

I hope the only role we play in a Kyrie deal is as a 3rd party, not his destination. If Sacramento is serious about offering Fox, I'd love for the Suns to get involved and get Fox while sending Bledsoe to Cleveland. Even then, I don't want to see Jackson moved. I'd much sooner part with Chriss or Bender.

 

[TJ]

This talk we're seeing today of possibly jackson/bledsoe for kyrie absolutely makes me sick.

If jackson is involved in any trade.... i dont know if I can do this anymore. I thought sarver was headed in the right direction, but that would be proof this organization is finished with him as the leader.

Yeah, trading Jackson would totally screw up any momentum this team has of building a contender in a few seasons. We wouldn't be much better than the Kyrie-led Cavs pre-LeBron. The only young asset I'd comfortably part with is Bender and/or Warren.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This would interest me:

Sactown gets: Irving and shump

Cleveland gets: Bledsoe and warren

Suns get: Fox and whatever sac has to send.

 

[Phrazbit]

I cannot think of a worse player to pair Booker with than Irving. IMO if we actually did that trade then we'd be stuck picking between the 2 of them in 2 years as they wouldn't be able to stomach playing together.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think the Rose signing has much to do with Kyrie's future, I cannot imagine they're expecting Rose to be the full time starter. No contending team would be foolish enough to entrust a role that important to Rose's knees.

I would agree... but there's no one steering the Titanic over there. At this point, with no GM in sight, it looks like Dan Gilbert's idiot ass is steering the ship. Would it surprise you if he was headed right towards an iceberg?

 

[Cheesebeef]

if we trade Bledsoe AND Jackson for kyrie I will go go straight up pee soup exorcist vomit all over this board. Throw Bledsoe, Warren and even Miami picks for Kyrie, I'm cool with that. But Jackson and any of our own and I'll be done with the Suns forever... again... until something else happens.

 

[devilalum]

if we trade Bledsoe AND Jackson for kyrie I will go go straight up pee soup exorcist vomit all over this board. Throw Bledsoe, Warren and even Miami picks for Kyrie, I'm cool with that. But Jackson and any of our own and I'll be done with the Suns forever... again... until something else happens.

Gonna pull a Linda Blair?


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[Hoop Head]

Saw this tweet referencing a report from Brian Windhorst and I think it sums up how most people here think about Irving.

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If there's a chance to work our way into a deal as the 3rd team in a trade involving him then I'd be ok with that if it brought us a young PG in return for sending Bledsoe away but I don't want Irving here. Definitely not interested if it cost us Bledsoe and one of young players. Kyrie may be a star but he's not the type of star that leads you to a title, or even the playoffs, on his own. I know he's better than he was 3 years ago before Lebron returned to Cleveland but I don't think he's good enough to lead a team from the west to the playoffs on his own. I'm not sure he's interested in competing for a title in the next few years either given how and why he wants out of Cleveland. It seems he'd rather be the man on his own team than share the load and compete. I think if his issues were with Lebron specifically we'd have heard something by now so I don't see it being a Shaq & Kobe situation where they need to be separated because of their own ego's clashing.


His attitude is a big concern though, not just because he'd be our #1 option but I wouldn't want that to rub off on our younger players either. There have been reports that he wanted to ask out after they won the title in 2016 but decided to stay for another season. Who asks to be traded after winning a title? He was their 2nd option and a huge part of why they won the title. He got plenty of credit for it since they fell short the year prior when he was injured, he also hit the dagger shot at the end of game 7.

He shares the ball with Lebron now but he hasn't had to sacrifice touches or stats since James has returned. He averaged 16.9 FG attempts a game before Lebron returned to Cleveland and has averaged 17.7 since then. His assists are the same, 5.8 per game last year which is what he averaged in the 3 years he played without Lebron. He gets more shots than Lebron does now also, averaging 19.7 FG's a game last year to Lebron's 18.2. Kevin Love is the only other player who averages more than 10 shots a game, he gets 14.5 attempts and everyone else is at 8 attempts or less.

 

[Town Drunk]

I read an article yesterday comparing him to Marbury, based on Marbury's split from KG in Minnesota. Can't remember where I read it at, but the comparison seems pretty accurate to me.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Saw this tweet referencing a report from Brian Windhorst and I think it sums up how most people here think about Irving.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

If there's a chance to work our way into a deal as the 3rd team in a trade involving him then I'd be ok with that if it brought us a young PG in return for sending Bledsoe away but I don't want Irving here. Definitely not interested if it cost us Bledsoe and one of young players. Kyrie may be a star but he's not the type of star that leads you to a title, or even the playoffs, on his own. I know he's better than he was 3 years ago before Lebron returned to Cleveland but I don't think he's good enough to lead a team from the west to the playoffs on his own. I'm not sure he's interested in competing for a title in the next few years either given how and why he wants out of Cleveland. It seems he'd rather be the man on his own team than share the load and compete. I think if his issues were with Lebron specifically we'd have heard something by now so I don't see it being a Shaq & Kobe situation where they need to be separated because of their own ego's clashing.


His attitude is a big concern though, not just because he'd be our #1 option but I wouldn't want that to rub off on our younger players either. There have been reports that he wanted to ask out after they won the title in 2016 but decided to stay for another season. Who asks to be traded after winning a title? He was their 2nd option and a huge part of why they won the title. He got plenty of credit for it since they fell short the year prior when he was injured, he also hit the dagger shot at the end of game 7.

He shares the ball with Lebron now but he hasn't had to sacrifice touches or stats since James has returned. He averaged 16.9 FG attempts a game before Lebron returned to Cleveland and has averaged 17.7 since then. His assists are the same, 5.8 per game last year which is what he averaged in the 3 years he played without Lebron. He gets more shots than Lebron does now also, averaging 19.7 FG's a game last year to Lebron's 18.2. Kevin Love is the only other player who averages more than 10 shots a game, he gets 14.5 attempts and everyone else is at 8 attempts or less.

Well, if Kyrie is really that much of a problem, then the Suns already know it. After all, McD's right hand man played with Kyrie the last three years and knows full well how much of a ball hog etc he is. James Jones was one of those players standing there open while Kyrie jacked up shots. JJ is also a pretty smart basketball player. He knows what was going on inside that locker room. I am glad we have him right now. It gives me more confidence that McD will make the right decision in this situation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, if Kyrie is really that much of a problem, then the Suns already know it. After all, McD's right hand man played with Kyrie the last three years and knows full well how much of a ball hog etc he is. James Jones was one of those players standing there open while Kyrie jacked up shots. JJ is also a pretty smart basketball player. He knows what was going on inside that locker room. I am glad we have him right now. It gives me more confidence that McD will make the right decision in this situation.

This is an EXCELLENT point.

 

[TJ]

Well, if Kyrie is really that much of a problem, then the Suns already know it. After all, McD's right hand man played with Kyrie the last three years and knows full well how much of a ball hog etc he is. James Jones was one of those players standing there open while Kyrie jacked up shots. JJ is also a pretty smart basketball player. He knows what was going on inside that locker room. I am glad we have him right now. It gives me more confidence that McD will make the right decision in this situation.

Well said. I forgot about the James Jones angle. He'll likely give McD some counsel on what the appropriate value for Irving would be, if anything at all.

Either way, I cannot see this team offering Jackson.


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[Mainstreet]

Some interesting tweets from Gambo.

John Gambadoro‏Verified account@Gambo987 53m53 minutes ago

I personally wouldn't do Jackson & Bledsoe for Kyrie but it is something to think about. I would hang up phone if they want more than that

John Gambadoro‏Verified account@Gambo987 1h1 hour ago

And that Phoenix can make a deal right now but it has to have Josh Jackson in it.

‏Verified account@Gambo987

58m58 minutes ago

Here is what I know - the Suns were "very very very" close to acquiring Kyrie Irving on draft day.

 

[CardsFan88]

Cleveland has no leverage. They have to sell low or risk what happens if they don't trade him.
(which may be nothing, it might be some disgruntled actions, pushing for a trade at every opportunity while under contract, and if not then probably losing him for nothing after 2018-2019 season).

They could also wait for things to blow over and hope if LeBron leaves, he'll stay with them to be the man. But Kyrie might not want to look at starting a rebuilding movement with almost nothing a year from now. That would be my thought.

ESPN and others keep looking at everything in ethereal world if they trade him now. That somehow the Suns or anyone else should bend over that Kyrie is available. It's pathetic. The Cavs are imploding, it just might take a year for the actual supernova explosion.

In reality.....
Cavs fired their GM (something that supposedly LeBron wasn't happy about). This doesn't look good long term. It's also really weird, which goes on to when they fired Blatt while in 1st place. A well respected GM fired after the team was in the finals.

They tried to get Chauncey Billups to replace him and whiffed. Now Chuancey let out these angles...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...equest-didnt-really-surprise-chauncey-billups

"No. It didn't really surprise me. Obviously, I knew. As they were doing their due diligence on me, I was doing the same thing. I knew so much about the situation that the rest of the world doesn't know. But that's unfortunate. He's a special talent and in my opinion, so much of what he's been able to accomplish on and off the floor has been a beneficiary of having LeBron James."

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/chauncey-billups-kyrie-irving-trade-gm-job-turned-down/3/

“I didn’t talk to LeBron until after [turning down the job],” said Billups. “I deliberately did that because I’m going into a situation [the Cavaliers GM position] because I want to. But LeBron potentially leaving didn’t bother me. When you have an opportunity to really put something together and really put your imprint on it, rebuilding is a beautiful thing, if they’re going to have the patience with you. What bothered me more than if LeBron left or not was that I didn’t think they had great assets if you have to do a rebuild, so it was more that than LeBron.”

At the same time he said this.

“That would be alarming to me if I were a team looking to get him,” said Billups If it’s all about winning, I mean you got a chance to win every single year, and not only that, you getting everything you want. You getting all the shots you want, you playing for a great coach who’s letting you go to work, [the] game’s on the line they’re coming to you, you playing on TV every week, to me I don’t get it, I just don’t get it.”

Richard Jefferson chimed in, giving a look at Kyrie's potential motivations
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/07/ric...trade-lebron-james-cavs-cavaliers-nba-podcast

“Is it true? I’m finding out kind of now. This is what I will say about this, and by the time this gets out, whenever we air this in a few days, I don’t know. I don’t think that there’s a power struggle with LeBron and Kyrie, Kev. I think Kyrie is a hyper-intelligent kid. Really, really smart. Doesn’t get enough credit for how smart he is. And I think seeing that the franchise is in flux, I think seeing Griff leave and the amount of coaches. I think Kyrie has had a much tougher time in this stretch of the organization than anyone really ever wanted to fully — He’s a No. 1 pick right after LeBron. Then he has three different coaches. Then LeBron comes back. Now, there’s trade rumors. Now, it’s LeBron leaving.


“At some point in time, anybody would want some sort of stability. Even if it’s the unknown. And I’m not saying that — I don’t know if he asked to be traded. I don’t know this. But I will say that he’s had a tougher time if you look at from start to where we are right now — the ups and downs of a franchise — more than most. Even if we’ve successful and even though we’ve won a championship, and he’s been an All-Star, there’s still been so much of a wave to be like, ‘Yo, we’re gonna sit here for a whole year on whether or not LeBron’s coming back.’ That’s gotta be tough on anybody.”

Everyone knows LeBron is likely out after next year, and him doing it twice before already doesn't help in hiding it. The perception he's built up for leaving, the fact he built in that option to leave, and him not saying squat (while all this goes down around him) only makes it look like he will. Seriously LeBron at any point this offseason could have made a commitment, but hasn't. The problem with always looking for a better situation is, it compromises your ability to be an actual leader in the present. That's LeBron's legacy. It seems the grass was always greener somewhere else to the point of sacrificing everything else.

Kyrie has gone public about his desire to be traded, and we know CLE was looking to trade him. There's even been rumors that LeBron signed off on trading him. If that happened, I can see why he is pissed. Here's a guy who is likely gone after next year getting involved in trading him for one last run before he leaves.

Now there are rumors (take with a grain of salt) from Stephen A Smith, that LeBron at least metaphorically wants to kick his butt for bringing him into the situation. LeBron has denied it, but didn't elaborate his feelings at all. Overall it doesn't help the Cavs leverage at all.

Signing Rose at the same position right in the middle of all of this doesn't help leverage either. Interesting that it's a ONE year deal.

Irving is a massive talent, but I can also see he is more of a Marbury then Nash/Kidd. But he does better fit our core age. No way I'd give up Jackson. Bledsoe and the worst first round pick... maybe Miami 2018, with top 5-10 protection.

Of course as said by JCSunsfan, James Jones could have some pertinent info as to whether or not we try. We're in no need to trade for anyone. If we want to, then do so only on our terms. The Cavs need resolution on this situation (trade or not) far more then we need to make a trade. I'm absolutely fine with going forward as is.

I say LeBron might get what he deserves. You maneuver like he has, and left how many players out to dry by leaving teams twice, and are looking to do it a 3rd time, I don't mind someone jumping the gun and giving LeBron a taste of his own medicine. Might not be as bitter as Irving is not a world talent like LeBron, but still somewhat bitter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wouldn't give up jackson.

This article is interesting:

https://theringer.com/phoenix-suns-potential-kyrie-irving-deal-nba-1651bd0f0ad7

I'd likely do Bledsoe l, warren/Len (or even both), and one Miami pick. Not sure they find a better offer.