1st Current NFL Player Announces He's Gay

[Stout]

Why??
Because he’s gay?

I could care less. I guess I don’t get why people have to “announce” anything. Just live your life.

It's couldn't care less.

And spoken like someone blind to the problems these folks face. As another poster said, if he doesn't announce it but simply "lives his life," the whole thing would blow up anyway. Add to that probably wanting to help his community and be an ally to others afraid to come out.

 

[Jetstream Green]

As a professional artist in Fine Arts, I have many friends who are considered in the minority, or some attention charged identification for society. I know a lesbian artist who never partakes in gay themed shows according to the participants because her work then gets typecast by the generic overt sexual side and not other factors, she is her own individual first. I have known a well known Mexican American artist who does not participate in Latino themed exhibitions for the same reason. I think it is great that he has come forward, but giving it attention as significant should sadly not be why his name is brought up over his acts on the football field. I hope when he does accomplish something on the field where his passion lies, it prompts people then to post about that too

 

[Finito]

I have a number of gay/lesbian friends that are Raider Fans

Raider fans? Ew

I couldn’t imagine if my daughter grew up to be a Raider fan.

 

[BACH]

Yes, and outside the US you will find some places that are slightly more tolerant....and many that are FAR FAR FAR worse.

You will also find outside the US...open, blatant racism....like fans throwing bananas at black players on the field.

Everyone that likes to point out the flaws in the US and talk about how horrible we are would do really well to actually look around the rest of the world at their societies.

Have you actually been outside the US? I'm thinking no based on this response.

The US compared to comparable countries are far behind.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Have you actually been outside the US? I'm thinking no based on this response.

The US compared to comparable countries are far behind.

I completely disagree - some places try to police actions and words more heavily, bit the undercurrents are absolutely there

In many of the places with more history, less melting pot and immigration the amount of nationalism and tribalism is very high - frequently it can be between regions within a country, which also isn't dissimilar from here

 

[BACH]

Yes I have. I have attended world cup games and traveled Europe extensively. I have seen the banana throwing. I have heard the equivalent of the N word screamed at players openly.

The US is absolutely not behind. In Europe...and I have also heard this a lot in Asia although no first hand experience...there is deep seated, generational racism that is just accepted. If you don't believe me go look up the people Europeans refer to as Gypsies. They are openly and legally discriminated against because of their race/culture...almost as an extension of Jewish persecution from the 30s that never stopped.

Also, and this is specifically in Italy...Sub Saharan Africans are treated like dirt. I've seen people refuse to be seated near an African family...in a nice restaurant.

In Asia...there is long standing racism from the Japanese towards Vietnamese and Filipinos.

The woke crowd loves to paint a picture....but the U S didn't invent, or monopolize racism. When you look at how many very different people have come from every corner of the planet...made a life for themselves...and live in relative peace and harmony in the US....it's pretty remarkable. Nowhere is perfect, no country should be throwing stones....but reality is that we are a country of 350 million people who get along better than they do in much smaller, much less diverse places.

Well. I’m comparing it to present Day protestant countries.

The US is 30 years behind Germany, Scandinavia, UK, Holland, Belgium etc.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Well. I’m comparing it to present Day protestant countries.

The US is 30 years behind Germany, Scandinavia, UK, Holland, Belgium etc.

Yeah.

No.

Especially the UK and Scandinavia.

Even lumping the UK together as a single unit doesn't do justice to the various prejudices amongst countries within the UK.

Not even getting into Brexit, there is still a large amount of racial abuse, religious intolerance, etc

The Scandinavian countries aren't that fond of outsiders and have had a struggle dealing with some of the diversity that has made it's way in

 

[Shane]

Yeah.

No.

Especially the UK and Scandinavia.

Even lumping the UK together as a single unit doesn't do justice to the various prejudices amongst countries within the UK.

Not even getting into Brexit, there is still a large amount of racial abuse, religious intolerance, etc

The Scandinavian countries aren't that fond of outsiders and have had a struggle dealing with some of the diversity that has made it's way in

yup

 

[BACH]

Yeah.

No.

Especially the UK and Scandinavia.

Even lumping the UK together as a single unit doesn't do justice to the various prejudices amongst countries within the UK.

Not even getting into Brexit, there is still a large amount of racial abuse, religious intolerance, etc

The Scandinavian countries aren't that fond of outsiders and have had a struggle dealing with some of the diversity that has made it's way in

Sorry. But you have no clue what you are talking about. And curious how you turned this into race and forgetting the sexual orientation when discussing this eventhough it was the original discussion.

Scandinavian countries has allowed civil homosexual marriages since the late 70's. It is far more acceptable to being homosexual there than in the US. Ministers have been attending Royal Gallas with their same sex partners for decades. The US stopped discharging military personal for being homosexual 8 years ago.

Racewise... Scandinavia is completely open to everyone... There are issues with one specific group of immigrants, because they have come to these countries and started demanding that the country should change it ways to suit them and not the other way around. But you fail to understand that these are countries with a higher degree of individual freedom than the US and several radical religious not legal in the US are allowed and therefore with a higher degree of conflict as a result.

Denmark has had other races represented in their parliament since 1700's.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

You've been having a conversation broader than orientation for pages now - this is what you are responding to and talking about and what I joined in on

Scandinavia absolutely isn't open to everyone - not even close

Also like how you brush off "one specific group of immigrants" ...... You know, the racial minority ones and then couch it with the cliche "demanding that the country should change" - which is textbook talk for the type of nationalism that runs strong there and is the same for of talk that is used here as well by certain groups

 

[BACH]

You've been having a conversation broader than orientation for pages now - this is what you are responding to and talking about and what I joined in on

Scandinavia absolutely isn't open to everyone - not even close

Also like how you brush off "one specific group of immigrants" ...... You know, the racial minority ones and then couch it with the cliche "demanding that the country should change" - which is textbook talk for the type of nationalism that runs strong there and is the same for of talk that is used here as well by certain groups

For pages? I said " travel" and you opened up to everything.

Please explain how Scandinavia is not open to everyone? Sweden took more Syrian refugees that any other country. About 8% of the Danish population are of Turkish (Kurdish) and Iranian heritage and arrived in the 70's and 80's as refugees. The organisations fighting for Kurdish independence and against the Iranian regime are both located in Denmark. No other country would touch them. The Kurdish organisation was illigal for years in the US.

And that why I brush it off like that. As Denmark and Holland have the highest degrees of freedom in the world, you have the modern battleground for freedom of speech. Islamic organisations banned in all other countries including the middleearth are legal. They are a problem. You do realize that there are open street fights among different groups of muslims, because one group advocates for sharia law and the other fighting for the freedom they enjoy in Scandinavia. This is a fight typical between groups of Arabian decent on one side and people of Iranian, Turkish and Pakistani decent on the other side. I have no problem calling out that one specific group of people from very specific countries are not integrating at all, while basicly all other groups of immigrants have been integrated very well.

 

[Dback Jon]

Comparing the US Civil Rights Record to other countries takes away what is important - the bigotry and hatred (and legal roadblocks) that minorities and the LGBT community still faces in THIS Country.

Supreme Court just ruled that a religious institution can take TAX DOLLARS and discriminate. Anyone that doesn't find that problematic is part of the problem.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Bigotry and hatred are not American problems. They are human problems.

Exactly.

There are areas where the US does competitively better and some where it is worse.

Unfortunately there is no utopia.

All we can do is advocate for more progress in our backyard and hope others do the same - however, it's not beneficial to gloss over the broader problems in the world either

 

[BACH]

They are completely dependent on the Government and people in positions of "authority" than almost anywhere outside the muslim world. They actually have FAR FAR less individual freedom, as they are very much held to the whim of the "majority". If the influx of outsiders continues to rise and starts to change "traditional Scandinavian values"...just watch how tolerant that country becomes. The United States in its purest form..."The Government that Governs Best, Governs Least"...has the most individual freedom in the world.

Oh...Denmark did that in the 1700's?? Wow...they managed to do that at the same time they were colonizing the world, enslaving people, and profiting massively from it! How thoughtful of them!

Sorry. But that is just a lie.

It's a fact that individual freedom is higher. All scandinavian countries rank in the top 10 when it comes to individual freedom. The US ranks in the low 20's. That is a FACT and not based on your personal experience visiting Hicksville, Scandinavia.

Maybe I should go to rural Alabama and talk to people there and based my discussion on that.

And you should take a little bit of pride in your history education instead of firing of more lies to support your argument. Denmark has had inuits in parliament for centuries and Greenland has been part of Denmark for 1300 years. Is that the colonies that you are taking about?

 

[Dback Jon]

When the Vikings landed in Greenland there were no inhabitants in that area

The Inuits we’re still in Canada than they did not migrate to Greenland until later

 

[Jetstream Green]

Ok, so again you would be wrong.

Hard to say anyone is "30 years behind Germany"....who literally committed genocide less than 100 years ago. A lot of Germany's "progress" has been forced on them against their will. I have spent lots of time in Germany. Very nice people, Bavaria is probably one of the most fun regions to visit.....but there is no way anyone can say their are "30 years" ahead of anyone. Look at the reaction to Murkell taking refugees. You think there isn't bigotry and racism there.

Scandinavians openly hate each other. I spent the entire summer in Sweden 2 years ago. Again...super nice people...but the open running joke was to rip on the Danish. If someone does something dumb or foolish...the running joke is "What are you....Danish?" They also REALLY REALLY hate "Gypsies"...which is again a term which now is just kind of thrown at undesirable types....mostly middle easterners and africans. You will mostly here "
ruttet zigenare"...which means "Rotten Gypsy" openly tossed at people on the street...homeless...criminals in news reports...etc.

And I also just have to point out how extremely narrow minded and naive you sound making your comparisons with "Present Day Protestant Countries". You do realize you are leave out 3/4 of the actual modern world right?? We are not even touching on the disgusting behavior of certain cultures towards women and people that are different. There are MANY places in the world, with MANY MANY more people than we have in the USA...and the way they treat other cultures...hell even their own people...is basically what we could consider a war crime "crimes against humanity".

The USA is so great, so accepting, and so tolerant....that we don't "approve"...but are more than willing to explain away the disgusting behavior from them and preach "tolerance" towards others. "Its their beliefs you have to respect it". You think that is flipped the other way "Americans have their beliefs and you have to respect those"???

We are doing as well as anyone in THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD at trying to "out think" our primal urges...but it will NEVER be eliminated, and can't be. We are hard coded to observe, assess, and make decisions about who is a friend and who is a foe. If we didn't have prejudice and bias, we would have become extinct.

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As a college professor I would have to agree with your sentiments and my interactions with those in Europe. But let's make this clear, there are people in the States and Germany, for example, which are respective and can identify these problems and this does not apply to them because they see the ignorant injustice... but my main gripe on this forum is can we finally cut a great guy but crappy WR named Isabella already because I want the Cards to win if not for the sake of depth alone lol

 

[Jetstream Green]

For pages? I said " travel" and you opened up to everything.

Please explain how Scandinavia is not open to everyone? Sweden took more Syrian refugees that any other country. About 8% of the Danish population are of Turkish (Kurdish) and Iranian heritage and arrived in the 70's and 80's as refugees. The organisations fighting for Kurdish independence and against the Iranian regime are both located in Denmark. No other country would touch them. The Kurdish organisation was illigal for years in the US.

And that why I brush it off like that. As Denmark and Holland have the highest degrees of freedom in the world, you have the modern battleground for freedom of speech. Islamic organisations banned in all other countries including the middleearth are legal. They are a problem. You do realize that there are open street fights among different groups of muslims, because one group advocates for sharia law and the other fighting for the freedom they enjoy in Scandinavia. This is a fight typical between groups of Arabian decent on one side and people of Iranian, Turkish and Pakistani decent on the other side. I have no problem calling out that one specific group of people from very specific countries are not integrating at all, while basicly all other groups of immigrants have been integrated very well.

Be careful Bach judging a country's populace by the action of their government which not might exactly coincide with the overall sentiment for better or worse. This I do know though, I like you and Osprey as our own little populace and we all need to chill a bit

 

[PACardsFan]

He’s been in the league for five years

My bad. Is he a good player? If he's been in the NFL for 5 years, then I'm sure he is. Good for him. Concentrate on football then. Most people don't give a damn who he prefers to sleep with.

 

[Stout]

 

[MigratingOsprey]

My bad. Is he a good player? If he's been in the NFL for 5 years, then I'm sure he is. Good for him. Concentrate on football then. Most people don't give a damn who he prefers to sleep with.

He's a Penn State guy as well, which apparently didn't damage him too much - seems like a really solid outlook despite that and being a Raider on his resume

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

My only thoughts on the subject are that I wish very one of the gay and bi pro players would stop hiding in the closet. They are making it harder for others who come out and who want to come out. If they all would just get together and come out together, I feel the problem and fear would go away once and for ever. These are big grown men and should put their fear to bed. There is no boogy man waiting to round up all the gays. They need to learn to live by my favorite life slogan:
Fear knocked at the door, Faith rose to open it, There was no one there.

 

[Stout]

My only thoughts on the subject are that I wish very one of the gay and bi pro players would stop hiding in the closet. They are making it harder for others who come out and who want to come out. If they all would just get together and come out together, I feel the problem and fear would go away once and for ever. These are big grown men and should put their fear to bed. There is no boogy man waiting to round up all the gays. They need to learn to live by my favorite life slogan:
Fear knocked at the door, Faith rose to open it, There was no one there.

What are you, the conductor of the shame train now? Telling an often judged, bullied, beaten, and murdered segment of society how they should behave? How dare they not want to come out? Sheesh.

 

[HomerPimpson]

This thread has reached its logical conclusion: we all agree he's gay as F, which is what his announcement was about.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why??
Because he’s gay?

I could care less. I guess I don’t get why people have to “announce” anything. Just live your life.

Because he’s not afraid to announce it thereby hopefully opening up avenues for others who might be afraid. But don’t let his being a pioneer and a leader get in the way of your prehistoric anger.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As long as we aren't looking at these other societies with an eye towards justifying the worst of our own behaviors.

Exactly. Being the best of the worst isn’t anything to crow about. We need to keep striving to be better rather than settling on not being as bad as others.