Spending to the Cap

[AntSports Steve]

"The Cards spent their cap money last year, or close to it".

Every offseason, I read a post with those words in it. Well, it's not true. It's a lie. In the last 5 years including this year, the Cards have pushed money into the current year to "look" like they are spending to the cap.

For 2005, just for Thompson, Clemment, and Shelton, the team has purposely cut them before June 1st to push money into 2005's cap just to look like they are trying to spend to the cap. How much much cap space could the cards saved? $3.6M just for those 3 players alone.

Cutting them before June 1st cost 2005 and Extra :
Thompson - $625,000
Clemment - $425,000
Shelton - $2,500,000

I would like to figure out a list of the rest of the players under contract for more than 1 year that were cut and figure out how much more money the Cards actually tried not to spend this year.

The Cards should have tried to bring in one more high profile player instead of saving for the future.

In the NFL, the future is always now.

So please post a few player names of 2005 cuts and help my memory.

 

[Cheesebeef]

riddle me this Steve - say they waited until June 1st to make those cuts and saved 3.6 million against the cap THIS YEAR - what the hell good would that do ON JUNE 1ST WHEN ALL THAT'S OUT THERE ARE FREAKING SCRUBS - are we then going to spend that 3.6 million on SCRUBS?! That impact player you keep bemoaning about AIN'T GONNA BE THERE COME JUNE 1ST.

Doesn't it make sense that when you've accomplished what you've wanted to get accomplished, that you start loioking towards the future and that by cutting these guys now - THYE WON'T BE ON OUR CAP NEXT YEAR?

This concept ain't this difficult - but if you want torant and rave calling people idiots after those idiots produced the most NFL ready team we've seen since 1998, then by all means - go ahead and look foolish.

 

[nidan]

Cheesie, take deep breath and relax just a little, for me.

However, IMO you are correct. It is very unlikely that there will be an impact player available after June 1st and this seems like the next step in getting out cap in line with out talent.

Sure we have managed thje cap reasonably well for the last few years but the money has not been spent wisely. Hence Fergi went to Seattle.

 

[Red Air Force]

riddle me this Steve - say they waited until June 1st to make those cuts and saved 3.6 million against the cap THIS YEAR - what the hell good would that do ON JUNE 1ST WHEN ALL THAT'S OUT THERE ARE FREAKING SCRUBS - are we then going to spend that 3.6 million on SCRUBS?! That impact player you keep bemoaning about AIN'T GONNA BE THERE COME JUNE 1ST.

Doesn't it make sense that when you've accomplished what you've wanted to get accomplished, that you start loioking towards the future and that by cutting these guys now - THYE WON'T BE ON OUR CAP NEXT YEAR?

This concept ain't this difficult - but if you want torant and rave calling people idiots after those idiots produced the most NFL ready team we've seen since 1998, then by all means - go ahead and look foolish.

That was harsh, but I agree with you both.

We woulda, coulda, shoulda brought in one or two more big names at the start of FA, namely a CB, but at this point there is no reason to push off dead money when we couldn't get anything for it anyhow.

Steve's dead-on though that for the past few we haven't spent enough of the cap early enough. It's too late now though and we might as well save future cap space.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheesie, take deep breath and relax just a little, for me.

is that some kind of warning Nidan - because there wasn't anything in the above post that was inflammatory - CAPS are used to make a point - not attack and personally, I'm getting really tired of seemingly this one person who doesn't get the concept of what is going on talking about our FO being idiots.

 

[AntSports Steve]

I know there are no quality players left.

My points is the Cards have been and still are being cheap and not bringing the coaches the best players available. The Cards have been and continue do try to "look" like they are spending, but actually are not trying.

At least not trying hard enough.

Most of those players cut, Graves and Green knew they would cut. So, why not add that extra money into their Free Agent budget back in March?

The Cards should have gone after more free agents. Even if they don't get all the ones they want, the should do their best to drive up the price of those free agents so the other teams pay too much.

Right now, the Cards have $10.5M in cap space with the rookies only taking about $4M of that. That's $6.5M, if you add in the $3.5 wasted by pushing those 3 players cap hits into this year, that's $10M. The Cards could have spent that $10M on several good players.

What could have been?

How about Lamont Jordon as the Cards starting RB? How about Cosey Coleman, Ben Hamilton, or Keydrick Vincent as the Cards starting RG instead of an unproven rookie or the work in progress Bridges. Having Bridges as a depth guy would be a lot nicer instead of counting him as the starter right now.

How about Pat Williams as DT?
Jermaine Wiggins as TE?

None of those players would have broke the bank and the Cards didn't go after any of them. Why? They should have.

 

[Red Air Force]

I know there are no quality players left.

My points is the Cards have been and still are being cheap and not bringing the coaches the best players available. The Cards have been and continue do try to "look" like they are spending, but actually are not trying.

At least not trying hard enough.

Most of those players cut, Graves and Green knew they would cut. So, why not add that extra money into their Free Agent budget back in March?

The Cards should have gone after more free agents. Even if they don't get all the ones they want, the should do their best to drive up the price of those free agents so the other teams pay too much.

Right now, the Cards have $10.5M in cap space with the rookies only taking about $4M of that. That's $6.5M, if you add in the $3.5 wasted by pushing those 3 players cap hits into this year, that's $10M. The Cards could have spent that $10M on several good players.

What could have been?

How about Lamont Jordon as the Cards starting RB? How about Cosey Coleman, Ben Hamilton, or Keydrick Vincent as the Cards starting RG instead of an unproven rookie or the work in progress Bridges. Having Bridges as a depth guy would be a lot nicer instead of counting him as the starter right now.

How about Pat Williams as DT?
Jermaine Wiggins as TE?

None of those players would have broke the bank and the Cards didn't go after any of them. Why? They should have.

Man I would love to see Graves respond to this.

 

[Dback Jon]

I'll give Green/Graves my trust - maybe they didn't WANT any of the other FA's, or the other FA's turned them down?

Do you really think that if Denny wanted a FA, and the only thing holding us up was cap room, that something would have been done to get it?

And it would be stupid to spend money on a FA just to spend cap room. They still need room for Quan, as well.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Maybe Green and Graves felt the free agents you mentioned would not fit or were asking for too much money. Thank God you're not the Cardinals GM, you'd spend every available penny every year just to get to the cap number.

 

[pete]

Maybe Green doesn't like those players, for whatever reason. He is pretty particular about who he brings in.

The Cards are saving up for something. I hope it is a nice extension for Boldin.

 

[seesred]

It's smart IMO to do it now. NExt year will be the all important year of new stadium 3rd draft and FA class and a run at the super bowl. We need to resign a few of our own including Q which is going to cost. Heck we did great this year and last in FA most all the football people say so. We don't want to speed a whole lot of moneyu of over priced free agents al Redskins, we are building a team to compete in the playoffs year after year. After just one full season we have accomplished

Getting rid of non productive players
Signing good free agents to many to name
Having two GREAT draft classes
Changed the way we are looked at around the league many saying we should take the division.
Getting our picks in on time
And yes having room under the cap for emergency and resignings.

What is wrong with this picture? I say NOTHING!

GBR
40
IN Green we trust

 

[JPlay]

Simple response to this question. Green will not overpay for older players who don't buy into his system and aren't team players.

 

[Russ Smith]

I know there are no quality players left.

My points is the Cards have been and still are being cheap and not bringing the coaches the best players available. The Cards have been and continue do try to "look" like they are spending, but actually are not trying.

At least not trying hard enough.

Most of those players cut, Graves and Green knew they would cut. So, why not add that extra money into their Free Agent budget back in March?

The Cards should have gone after more free agents. Even if they don't get all the ones they want, the should do their best to drive up the price of those free agents so the other teams pay too much.

Right now, the Cards have $10.5M in cap space with the rookies only taking about $4M of that. That's $6.5M, if you add in the $3.5 wasted by pushing those 3 players cap hits into this year, that's $10M. The Cards could have spent that $10M on several good players.

What could have been?

How about Lamont Jordon as the Cards starting RB? How about Cosey Coleman, Ben Hamilton, or Keydrick Vincent as the Cards starting RG instead of an unproven rookie or the work in progress Bridges. Having Bridges as a depth guy would be a lot nicer instead of counting him as the starter right now.

How about Pat Williams as DT?
Jermaine Wiggins as TE?

None of those players would have broke the bank and the Cards didn't go after any of them. Why? They should have.

I pretty much agree with this, that was my point on Surtain who was a trade not a FA. If you know you're almost assuredly going to cut Shelton, and I've been saying that for 2 months now at least, why not instead time it so you take less cap hit this year and use that money to lock up a guy like Surtain?

Maybe you never had a chance at him or Jordan or any of the other guys, if that's the case, then you cut the guys before June 1 anyways. But I would argue that this team with Surtain is probably going to win 1-2 more games than we will without him because I think no matter how good Rolle and Green are they're going to make mistakes, and there will be plays that Surtain might make, that they won't simply due to lack of experience.

That's why I said yesterday I assume this means we'll be a bigger player in FA next year? Because if we're not, there's no sense saving caproom for next year.

I'm not mad we cut Shelton I figured that was coming, but I am a bit perturbed that we wasted so much caproom this year because I'm not yet convinced we're really going to use it next year.

How do they prove me wrong, simple, extend Boldin this year, next year maybe it's Dansby or Dockett or another young guy who we extend and use some of that caproom. Then it makes sense, but if we just save caproom for next year, but never use it next year, then I agree with Steve it's kind of silly.

It's like people we all know who save money or vacation time, for a vacation they never take. Sure it's fiscally sound to have money tucked away, but if you're stressed out all the time, take the vacation. It's good in the NFL to have money in case you need it, but if you never spend it, and don't win the Superbowl, one can argue that maybe you SHOULD have spent it on one more key guy?

 

[Russ Smith]

Simple response to this question. Green will not overpay for older players who don't buy into his system and aren't team players.

Can anybody please tell me why LJ is not a team player?

Let's review, rookie contract is below market, yes he missed a lot of camp but with good reason, the slot value was essentially set, we just refused to pay it because Bidwill didn't have the cash for the bonus. Tv money comes in, contract offer goes up, Shelton takes it (still less than the 2 guys picked immediately after him).

Shelton plays hurt basically his whole career, certainly not a great player but not horrible. Gets extended because we value him, again he works with us to help the team use caproom and decrease the cap hit later in the contract. Then last year he's hurt, has 2 surgeries, shows up fat and goes into the doghouse. He basically doesn't do any complaining, moves to RT, waits his turn, starts and the OL immediately improved. He didn't complain about Kendall being cut, he didn't complain about Wylie being fired, he didn't complain about splitting time with AC. To me that's a team player, roll with the punches, or as they say in "The Warriors" "just soldier and keep your mouth shut." That's what he did.

I have no doubt he doesn't buy into Green's system, but to say he's not a team player is comical, he's done EVERYTHING the Cards have asked of him since the day he was drafted.

 

[Toro]

I think it is smarter to take the cap it in 2005 instead of 2006. If the Cards are getting closer to being a playoff calibar team, a bunch of dead cap space can keep a team from continuing to improve.

 

[Mulli]

How does he get to choose what system he will buy into and still be a team player? How does his next team now if he will buy into their system?

You are paid to buy into your team's system. Signing the contract means I will play for you whatever system it is. When I don't like the system anymore, get rid of me. Just my opinion. Could be wrong.

Can anybody please tell me why LJ is not a team player?

Let's review, rookie contract is below market, yes he missed a lot of camp but with good reason, the slot value was essentially set, we just refused to pay it because Bidwill didn't have the cash for the bonus. Tv money comes in, contract offer goes up, Shelton takes it (still less than the 2 guys picked immediately after him).

Shelton plays hurt basically his whole career, certainly not a great player but not horrible. Gets extended because we value him, again he works with us to help the team use caproom and decrease the cap hit later in the contract. Then last year he's hurt, has 2 surgeries, shows up fat and goes into the doghouse. He basically doesn't do any complaining, moves to RT, waits his turn, starts and the OL immediately improved. He didn't complain about Kendall being cut, he didn't complain about Wylie being fired, he didn't complain about splitting time with AC. To me that's a team player, roll with the punches, or as they say in "The Warriors" "just soldier and keep your mouth shut." That's what he did.

I have no doubt he doesn't buy into Green's system, but to say he's not a team player is comical, he's done EVERYTHING the Cards have asked of him since the day he was drafted.

 

[nidan]

Can anybody please tell me why LJ is not a team player?

Let's review, rookie contract is below market, yes he missed a lot of camp but with good reason, the slot value was essentially set, we just refused to pay it because Bidwill didn't have the cash for the bonus. Tv money comes in, contract offer goes up, Shelton takes it (still less than the 2 guys picked immediately after him).

Shelton plays hurt basically his whole career, certainly not a great player but not horrible. Gets extended because we value him, again he works with us to help the team use caproom and decrease the cap hit later in the contract. Then last year he's hurt, has 2 surgeries, shows up fat and goes into the doghouse. He basically doesn't do any complaining, moves to RT, waits his turn, starts and the OL immediately improved. He didn't complain about Kendall being cut, he didn't complain about Wylie being fired, he didn't complain about splitting time with AC. To me that's a team player, roll with the punches, or as they say in "The Warriors" "just soldier and keep your mouth shut." That's what he did.

I have no doubt he doesn't buy into Green's system, but to say he's not a team player is comical, he's done EVERYTHING the Cards have asked of him since the day he was drafted.

This is absolutly correct, there is nothing wrong with LJ, certainly not his attitude.

The problem is simple Denny think Davies is a better LT and LJ is to expensive to be a backup

 

[40yearfan]

Copped this from another article posted on here:

STRATEGY AND PERSONNEL

FRANCHISE PLAYER: None.

TRANSITION PLAYER: None.

UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS: MLB Ron McKinnon; WR Nate Poole (not tendered as RFA); OG Cameron Spikes.

RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS: None.

EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS FREE AGENTS: None.

PLAYERS RE-SIGNED: RB Damien Anderson; OT Jeremy Bridges; RB Troy Hambrick; S Quentin Harris; DT Ross Kolodziej; QB Josh McCown; CB Robert Tate; DE Peppi Zellner.

PLAYERS ACQUIRED: OT Ian Allen; S Robert Griffith; OT Adam Haayer; LB Orlando Huff; DE Chike Okeafor; OT Oliver Ross; CB Ray Walls; QB Kurt Warner.

PLAYERS LOST: OT Anthony Clement; CB Renaldo Hill; TE Freddie Jones; QB Shaun King; RB Emmitt Smith; CB Duane Starks; CB Michael Stone; LB Ray Thompson; DE Kyle Vanden Bosch; WR Karl Williams; LB LeVar Woods.


Looks to me like we've been doing exactly what DG said we were going to do and he's building this team from the bottom up. Good pick-ups in the FA market, no wild assed spending on over-hyped FA's, and we didn't have the use franchise tags. Sounds to me like great cap management and someone following a plan.

I have no complaints about how the Cards are handling this situation. I'm afraid some of us just don't have any patience.

 

[DKCards]

AntSport or however else can answer this.



Is there any benefit to resigning Q before June 1st? Does a greater part of the bonus get counted on this years cap vs. next years?

 

[Totally_Red]

no

AntSport or however else can answer this.



Is there any benefit to resigning Q before June 1st? Does a greater part of the bonus get counted on this years cap vs. next years?

No. But there is an advantage to resigning him before midseason. Up until the midpoint of the season, the signing bonus can be partially allocated to this year's cap, e.g. 10 million bonus, 4-year extension, 1/6 goes against the 2005 cap.

 

[Mulli]

This is absolutly correct, there is nothing wrong with LJ, certainly not his attitude.

The problem is simple Denny think Davies is a better LT and LJ is to expensive to be a backup

I can understand if LJ said, I am not a bench player, start me or move me. Fine. However, if he didn't buy into the system because he feels he knows better than the coach as to scheme or whatever. He is not a team player. The player that does what the coach says he should do is a team player.

 

[Russ Smith]

How does he get to choose what system he will buy into and still be a team player? How does his next team now if he will buy into their system?

You are paid to buy into your team's system. Signing the contract means I will play for you whatever system it is. When I don't like the system anymore, get rid of me. Just my opinion. Could be wrong.

Well there you get into a whole new debate about what buy into the system means. LJ didn't show up for camp out of shape because he was lazy, it was because he'd had 2 surgeries. He admitted he should have watched his weight better, but he also said he'd been in contact with the Cards all along so his condition shouldn't have shocked them.

From that point on he did everything Green asked, he played hurt, worked hard, played a new position, hell he was trying to get to play when Green was holding him out saying he wasn't healthy yet.
When SHelton realized that none of that mattered and Green still didn't like him, he asked to be traded, which is what I meant when I said didn't buy in, if you buy in, you don't ask to be traded.

Not a team player is Travis henry, sabotaging your own trade value by shooting off your mouth.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can understand if LJ said, I am not a bench player, start me or move me. Fine. However, if he didn't buy into the system because he feels he knows better than the coach as to scheme or whatever. He is not a team player. The player that does what the coach says he should do is a team player.

he did, what I mean by not buying in is asking to be traded.

Remember last year after Wylie was fired the local reporters were all gunning for an inside scoop, and they all went to LJ, and what did he say, something like no big deal nothing has changed so far same drills etc. When Lindsay decided platooning at RT and RG made sense what did LJ say when asked, said he was fine with it if that's what they wanted to do. It was clear he was frustrated but even after he asked to be traded he made it perfectly clear if we wanted him he'd happily stay.


Again, I'm not arguing about whether he's better than Davis or Ross or anybody else, I just take issue with the not a team player claim.

 

[AntSports Steve]

Extending Q and the June 1st date have nothing to do with each other.

But, now that the Cards are planning to extend Q, they should structure it so his contract consumes most of the remaining cap space, ie pushing future salary into this year. As I don't want cap wasted and I don't see the Cards picking up any value free agents. Just set aside enough for the practice squad and maybe 1 injury backup player.

If any year, this was the year the Cards would have pulled out all the stops and tried to build a fantastic team. Green has done pretty good with this years crop of free agents and draft picks, but the Cards had the money to do better and did not allow Graves/Green to do their best. I'm sure Green could have gotten a few more quality free agents with a bigger budget.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Man I would love to see Graves respond to this.

he'd say this: Teams are built THROUGH THE DRAFT - if you wnat to be Daniel Snyder and spend a gazzilion dollars every year and be 6-10 - so be it.

As far as not breaking the bank on any one player - yeah - I'm sure Lamont Jordan and his 25 million dollar contract fits that mold.