What’s up with PR?

[Mainstreet]

I would moderate it a little. But make the ban a true deterrent. A year ban. Then you’re allowed back in a short leash. If a years ban doesn’t teach you to curb your bad actions you’re likely hopeless.

I think a month band is sufficient. I mean if you have been gone for an entire month and thee first thing you comeback and do is troll like some or our repeat offenders? It's likely hopeless long before a year time frame.

Usually, a verbal reprimand about something being offensive is enough.

IMO, the longer bans should only be for repeat offenders.

Maybe there can be someway of keeping track so it is not a suddenly… you are banned.

I know it's a forum, but there should be some due process involved where the accused can answer to the violations before being banned if that is the decision.

 

[Folster]

IMO, the best solution would be to have Left, Center and Right sub-forums open to all, but moderated appropriately. Those who want to preach to the choir can do so in their respective sub-forum. Those who want to engage honestly can do so in the Center sub-reddit.

It may not work, but any other way will just result in an Overton window influenced by bans or posters walking away.

 

[Covert Rain]

Usually, a verbal reprimand about something being offensive is enough.

IMO, the longer bans should only be for repeat offenders.

Maybe there can be someway of keeping track so it is not a suddenly… you are banned.

I know it's a forum, but there should be some due process involved where the accused can answer to the violations before being banned if that is the decision.

It usually isn't enough. That's why we have repeat offenders to begin with. Also, I think the mods are trying to make it easier on themselves and not harder. If they step up the verbal reprimands that is going to require a ton more moderating which isn't what I think they want.

I think they do a good job of warning people now before the ban. I would think that would continue.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

i hope it sticks around - idk how it's gonna work - maybe if 3 people get banned within a week then p&r gets shut down for a week - repeat offenders get the boot - needs to be easier on the mods cuz no one likes to sort thru garbage

 

[Russ Smith]

I think of it as ding-dong ditch, but I like your metaphor better.



No sports discussion in the P&R forum please.

Dillon Brooks plays sports? I thought he was a Proud Boy

 

[AzStevenCal]

IMO, the best solution would be to have Left, Center and Right sub-forums open to all, but moderated appropriately. Those who want to preach to the choir can do so in their respective sub-forum. Those who want to engage honestly can do so in the Center sub-reddit.

It may not work, but any other way will just result in an Overton window influenced by bans or posters walking away.

Maybe there's something in this that's workable but let's face it, we have no consensus even when it comes to defining left, center and right. Asking for a show of hands for all those here who consider themselves to be moderates will make this point better than I can. Anyway, I like the idea, not sure how to make it work though.

 

[Russ Smith]

I get your intention but I don’t think this is a realistic ask of the mods. It then falls to them to define and police what is, and what is not, an acceptable source. We shouldn’t expect that of the mods.

it also depends entirely on what your opinion already is. Hey Russ just said I read this on FB that's not credible, here's my source this right wing guy that was literally caught getting paid by the Russians. Or my source that was literally being investigated by the Justice Department. Or the source that has literally advocated for the complete fall of Democracy in the US. I have had paraphrasing those exchanges(so to be clear not exact word for word) with one of the guys who posts here. The same guy, for all 3.

 

[Mainstreet]

It usually isn't enough. That's why we have repeat offenders to begin with. Also, I think the mods are trying to make it easier on themselves and not harder. If they step up the verbal reprimands that is going to require a ton more moderating which isn't what I think they want.

I think they do a good job of warning people now before the ban. I would think that would continue.

I guess I would ask, why aren't repeat offenders banned for longer periods of time if indeed they are repeat offenders already?

This somehow needs to be documented (maybe by PM to all concerned parties) and applicable penalties noted.

Yeah, I know, paperwork, but I think it saves time and makes it a better forum in the long term. It would be a part of the due process idea.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

If this forum ever does reopen I think we should ban puns.

First offenders should be banned for life

 

[Dr. Jones]

Whenever you advocate for more censorship, or more enforcement via fiat, you immediately lose the high ground, moral standing, and any sense of personal credibility. In short..... It's undignified and morally flimsy.

Using the ignore button or hoping someone gets banned is basically equal to putting a big "I can't control myself" sign around your neck and blaming someone else for that failure on your part. You should want to be challenged. You should want your ideas debated. And you should expect a public square like that forum to be where one can come and debate hard topics publicly. No thin skin, no censorship, no small minded bubble-like rooms to hide in. Be a man, and stand behind your ideas. .

If there is one thing I would recommend it would be to remove the reactions via emoji. Make people talk, or they can stay quiet in their corner.

My vote.... Keep it open.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

there is nothing wrong with blocking a-holes

 

[Dr. Jones]

there is nothing wrong with blocking a-holes

My take: Even weak-willed sore losers who have been permabanned for trolling in the past deserve a second chance.

The weaker the opposition to censorship became, the tighter the control over speech grew.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

The interest in encouraging freedom of expression in a democratic society outweighs any theoretical but unproven benefit of censorship.

All are from Orwell.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

we should definitely get the ignore function to work better tho

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Spoiler

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90% of P&R

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Usually, a verbal reprimand about something being offensive is enough.

IMO, the longer bans should only be for repeat offenders.

Maybe there can be someway of keeping track so it is not a suddenly… you are banned.

I know it's a forum, but there should be some due process involved where the accused can answer to the violations before being banned if that is the decision.

I think that’s reasonable for first time offenders, like someone new to P&R. But the existing players? Everyone here knows better.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i hope it sticks around - idk how it's gonna work - maybe if 3 people get banned within a week then p&r gets shut down for a week - repeat offenders get the boot - needs to be easier on the mods cuz no one likes to sort thru garbage

Puts too much power in bad actors who can purposefully ruin it for everyone.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe there's something in this that's workable but let's face it, we have no consensus even when it comes to defining left, center and right. Asking for a show of hands for all those here who consider themselves to be moderates will make this point better than I can. Anyway, I like the idea, not sure how to make it work though.

I think there’s merit to this. I don’t think it’s so much the who as the what. The threads should be started in each forum understanding the lean of the forum. Eh the more I think of this the more complicated it might to be to effectively manage.

At the end of the day the reality is a forum functions if people behave like adults. Trying to legislate around that central principle is kind of foolhardy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Whenever you advocate for more censorship, or more enforcement via fiat, you immediately lose the high ground, moral standing, and any sense of personal credibility. In short..... It's undignified and morally flimsy.

Using the ignore button or hoping someone gets banned is basically equal to putting a big "I can't control myself" sign around your neck and blaming someone else for that failure on your part. You should want to be challenged. You should want your ideas debated. And you should expect a public square like that forum to be where one can come and debate hard topics publicly. No thin skin, no censorship, no small minded bubble-like rooms to hide in. Be a man, and stand behind your ideas. .

If there is one thing I would recommend it would be to remove the reactions via emoji. Make people talk, or they can stay quiet in their corner.

My vote.... Keep it open.

Eh I think it’s silly to call out anyone’s manhood on an Internet forum. But that’s just me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My take: Even weak-willed sore losers who have been permabanned for trolling in the past deserve a second chance.

The weaker the opposition to censorship became, the tighter the control over speech grew.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

The interest in encouraging freedom of expression in a democratic society outweighs any theoretical but unproven benefit of censorship.

All are from Orwell.

I’d suspect that you can glean the difference between intellectual discourse and trolling. Who amongst us needs the latter? And btw, I include gratuitous yelling about who voted for whom 9 years ago as trolling at this point. So I fully recognize there’s trolling on both sides in this forum. A primary difference is that there is a select individual who virtually ONLY trolls and never adds anything to the discourse. Why any of us, regardless of political bent, need that represented is beyond me.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

My take: Even weak-willed sore losers who have been permabanned for trolling in the past deserve a second chance.

The weaker the opposition to censorship became, the tighter the control over speech grew.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

The interest in encouraging freedom of expression in a democratic society outweighs any theoretical but unproven benefit of censorship.

All are from Orwell.

I have one person on ignore and it was literally the best decision I have ever made on this board beyond ceasing to be a moderator.

Some people don't deserve your time.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

And those people could include me. That's absolutely fine if you put me on ignore. Not even mad about it.

 

[AZCB34]

The ban should not be limited to PR but every forum for the duration of the punishment. Everyone here is fully on other boards talking sports or movies or whatever. People would stop a beat before being an idiot

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

The ban should not be limited to PR but every forum for the duration of the punishment. Everyone here is fully on other boards talking sports or movies or whatever. People would stop a beat before being an idiot

I fully support this.

 

[Mainstreet]

The ban should not be limited to PR but every forum for the duration of the punishment. Everyone here is fully on other boards talking sports or movies or whatever. People would stop a beat before being an idiot

I think the same rules should apply to every forum, that way their no misunderstanding or confusion about the rules.

 

[Devilmaycare]

This thread really isn't making me miss P&R and want to open it.

Quick update, no decision has been made yet. I'm looking to get it decided upon something this week. Things have been delayed a bit due to my health. I've had a nasty stomach issue since the fourth that's had me down. I've been feeling better the last two days and hopefully I'm good to go from it.

FYI, if we do open it, the rules are going to be much tighter. It'll basically be the case of act like adults or there will be consequences. We can't have it being as bad as it was.