Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023

[RON_IN_OC]

I can argue that trading Kyler Murray for whatever you can get, drafting Anthony Richardson, and then stacking a roster with talent is exactly what Philly did when they traded Wentz and drafted Jalen Hurts.

Except Philly drafted Jalen Hurts and sat him behind Wentz. They didn't do it blindly and just roll the dice with Hurts. Also, the media almost 100% crapped on them for doing it.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

A lot is being put on this being about Kyler's attitude. It might be more simple.

He's a mobile QB with a torn ACL. RG3 isn't that long ago. It's still recent enough to occur to people it's a potential problem. And Teddy Bridgewater was a starting QB before his ACL tear and has been a career backup/bridge since.

It's not unheard of for mobile QB's to struggle to fully return from an ACL injury. The odds are in his favour, but there is a not insignificant chance of there being an issue.

It was always a safer bet to replace Kliff once Kyler's injury and recovery was more clear.

RG3 and Bridgewater had far more damage to their knees, plus Shanny threw RG3 out there with a knee brace, after he was already injured. All 3 have ACL's, but reports have been the Murray's is more typical and not catastrophic, like the others.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I'm kinda thinking we might hear something today, no sources or anything just a gut feeling

I think we'll get some sort of news...Either a coach announcement or more press releases of candidates being brought back for 2nd interviews. I doubt we will hear anything new, regarding coaches left on the 2 Super Bowl teams.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except Philly drafted Jalen Hurts and sat him behind Wentz. They didn't do it blindly and just roll the dice with Hurts. Also, the media almost 100% crapped on them for doing it.

We gave Kyler a contract extension because the media was crapping on us and now the media is crapping on us for giving it to him. Placating the media is the worst reason to do anything as an organization.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think we'll get some sort of news...Either a coach announcement or more press releases of candidates being brought back for 2nd interviews. I doubt we will hear anything new, regarding coaches left on the 2 Super Bowl teams.

After missing out on a big splash hire, I expect a Friday afternoon news dump announcement from Arizona whenever it is.

 

[BritCard]

Fully expecting Vance as a one year place holder now

 

[RON_IN_OC]

We gave Kyler a contract extension because the media was crapping on us and now the media is crapping on us for giving it to him. Placating the media is the worst reason to do anything as an organization.

It doesn't make the 1st part of my comment incorrect, though. Philly didn't trade Wentz and then just roll the dice with Hurts, as you are suggesting the Cardinals do with Murray and a rookie.

Philly also gave Wentz his extension after year 3 and before deciding to draft Hurts.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Here is where I push back on this. If a candidate is not 100% sold on Kyler, telling them that in two years they can try to start over at QB is not reassuring. Likely it will be after two seasons of losing if this scenario is going to be executed. Who likes this timeline?

2023 - First year, new scheme install. Probably can't count on Kyler to substantially contribute coming off ACL injury. Little cap space to significantly add talent to a lacking roster and some of the best players are older.

2024 - Kyler should be healthy but he has a cap hit of 51.8 mil. Between Kyler, Hopkins, Humphries, Ertz and Conner the cap hit is 117.7 million. Again, limited cap space to significantly add cap talent to a lacking roster due to those hits.

2025 - You can finally get off Kyler's contract but now have to figure out how to get a QB. You are likely coming off two bad seasons (but probably not top 5 pick bad) and best case scenario is that you have had unexpected luck in drafting and free agency where you have added legitimate players to a lacking roster with no missed or underachieving draft picks and no bad FA contracts. All of this done with a first time GM.

How many more years can you legitimately argue for this candidate to get in this scenario? And how many assets are you going to have to give up to try and get a QB who can actually make a difference and turn the tide?

Well if the owner is framing it to the candidates and their agents in this way of course we are not getting coaches.

The owner pitch should be that the new coach has his crack at Kyler. Then if that doesn’t work same coach will get a crack at a QB of his choice in 2024/2025 before being totally judged.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Fully expecting Vance as a one year place holder now

They can't do that...not with the BFlo/Wilks lawsuit. I don't even think they can do a one and done with a white HC, at this point.

 

[football karma]

2023 - First year, new scheme install. Probably can't count on Kyler to substantially contribute coming off ACL injury. Little cap space to significantly add talent to a lacking roster and some of the best players are older.

2024 - Kyler should be healthy but he has a cap hit of 51.8 mil. Between Kyler, Hopkins, Humphries, Ertz and Conner the cap hit is 117.7 million. Again, limited cap space to significantly add cap talent to a lacking roster due to those hits.

obvs these are facts (mostly) but it also assumes you can't change any of it.

You can take 2023 to avoid many of the cap issues of 2024 (Ertz, Conner can be released, maybe Hopkins for a pick).

Further -- the cap is going up. $225mm for 2023. Some project $260mm by 2024 with the new broadcasting deals.

to me, the important part is to communicate the plan the HC candidate. Realistic expectations for 2023, Kyler swims or sinks in 2024, new QB if you need one for 2025.

 

[DVontel]

I’d rather draft building blocks in the trenches with our premium picks before moving on to our next QB, not do the exact opposite.

Keim literally did the latter with Kyler. All you would do is do the same exact thing with the next QB.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also, let me say this. The only ways our HC candidate is not going to get fired in 3 or 4 years is if they can make Kyler a top 12 QB again or they trade him before free agency this year. My point is that I don't see any of those options out there after Payton was hired by Denver to get Kyler to be a top 12 QB again.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I’d rather draft building blocks in the trenches with our premium picks before moving on to our next QB, not do the exact opposite.

Keim literally did the latter with Kyler. All you would do is do the same exact thing with Kyler.

This, give Kyler or any other QB an actual OL to protect them and see what they can do, before moving on.

 

[Chopper0080]

I’d rather draft building blocks in the trenches with our premium picks before moving on to our next QB, not do the exact opposite.

Keim literally did the latter with Kyler. All you would do is do the same exact thing with Kyler.

Keim never addressed the trenches so I disagree. ideally you are correct but it doesnt have to be that way.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Also noting here the irony of those who continually call Kyler an entitled brat are the same ones making excuses for coaches not wanting to take a job that doesn’t include a 100% perfect QB situation to walk into.

 

[kerouac9]

Anyone who'd rather work with Davis Mills, Sam Darnold, an unproven 1st round pick who's never played an NFL snap vs Kyler...or who doesn't understand how easily we can cut Kyler in 2 years relatively stress-free is a moron not worth hiring. I get Kyler has his challenges but anyone preferring the above or waiting to inherit a Burrow/Mahomes/Herbert type in his prime is either dumb or delusional.

I mean, this is yoking Michael and Kyler together, isn't it? We can cut ties with Kyler after two seasons, but Michael fired his last head coach before his new five-year extension even kicked in, and fired Kliff's predecessor after one season with an execrable QB situation and a roster at least as transitional as this one.

@Chopper0080 is probably correct that you're in better shape professionally with a QB of your choice (or not!) and a year or two of runway with a QB on a rookie deal than you are coming into What if the Chiefs but Also Bad?

And this is in the current situation; the Cards aren't in the running with Houston anymore. They're only competing with Indy for top coaching talent today and the possibility of jobs in... Tampa, Washington, Cleveland, Dallas, maybe Las Vegas and Chicago next year?

IMO, any candidate coming in should already know the QB situation and their contract, so they shouldn't have to pitch themselves or be pitched around how or when you can dump Murray. Agents speak to one another...plus contracts are public record.

All they should care about is if Mike will give them 4-5 years to turn the ship around, like he gave Kliff.

Kliff turned the ship around and Michael dumped him anyway. I don't think the NFL coaching fraternity really sheds tears for Kliff, but that's the reality. I do think they care about Wilks, and Michael didn't give him a chance to turn it around.

The real problem is if Michael insists that he loves Kyler, we're going to ride or die with him until 2027 or something.

Let's put it in a real estate perspective. The more deal-killers I provide, the less options I'm going to have for what I want. If I want a pool and a four-bedroom/three-bath and have it be in a certain elementary school boundary AND have it built after 1990, I'm either going to have to settle for one or two options or have to wait around for more to come on the market.

 

[Chopper0080]

This, give Kyler or any other QB an actual OL to protect them and see what they can do, before moving on.

Kyler has had Dj Humphries, Kelvin Beachum, and Justin Pugh for 3 or 4 years of his career. Those are three legit NFL starters.

 

[PACardsFan]

Okay I want to hire this dude hahaha

I agree. I like their OC too. You’ve waited a long time already. Why not just wait until the SB is over & interview the guys from Philly. So what if we don’t have a HC when everyone rolls into AZ. It’s not like anyone will respect us any less.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Fully expecting Vance as a one year place holder now

Pretty sure if that were the case it would've already been announced - plus I just don't see Mikey and Monti setting up a black coach to fail on a one year contract only to discard them afterwards. I think whomever we hire will be a legit decision and have a few years to right the ship. This is Monti's first HC hire, if I were him I wouldn't do the whole "place holder" thing

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I agree. I like their OC too. You’ve waited a long time already. Why not just wait until the SB is over & interview the guys from Philly. So what if we don’t have a HC when everyone rolls into AZ. It’s not like anyone will respect us any less.

Don't need to wait to interview them. Steichen (sp?) is interviewing with Colts for 2nd time tomorrow. It appears AZ isn't interested in them, at this point. They could have easily requested permission and interviewed them already.

 

[Chopper0080]

Also noting here the irony of those who continually call Kyler an entitled brat are the same ones making excuses for coaches not wanting to take a job that doesn’t include a 100% perfect QB situation to walk into.

You can say me...as I am the one that seems to be driving the bus in this thread. I am saying that I can understand how a HC would not want to tie his future career as a HC to a entitled brat QB under a huge contract. I feel like I am at least consistent.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I mean, this is yoking Michael and Kyler together, isn't it? We can cut ties with Kyler after two seasons, but Michael fired his last head coach before his new five-year extension even kicked in, and fired Kliff's predecessor after one season with an execrable QB situation and a roster at least as transitional as this one.

@Chopper0080 is probably correct that you're in better shape professionally with a QB of your choice (or not!) and a year or two of runway with a QB on a rookie deal than you are coming into What if the Chiefs but Also Bad?

And this is in the current situation; the Cards aren't in the running with Houston anymore. They're only competing with Indy for top coaching talent today and the possibility of jobs in... Tampa, Washington, Cleveland, Dallas, maybe Las Vegas and Chicago next year?



Kliff turned the ship around and Michael dumped him anyway. I don't think the NFL coaching fraternity really sheds tears for Kliff, but that's the reality. I do think they care about Wilks, and Michael didn't give him a chance to turn it around.

The real problem is if Michael insists that he loves Kyler, we're going to ride or die with him until 2027 or something.

Let's put it in a real estate perspective. The more deal-killers I provide, the less options I'm going to have for what I want. If I want a pool and a four-bedroom/three-bath and have it be in a certain elementary school boundary AND have it built after 1990, I'm either going to have to settle for one or two options or have to wait around for more to come on the market.

This is the issue. Technically speaking these leaks could be true that “Kyler is the problem” if the candidates are being told by ownership that they have to keep him until 2026/27 and that the mandate is to fix Kyler.

But at its roots that’s an ownership gaffe not Kyler’s issue if the job is being sold in that way.

Let’s use an example of say Isaiah Simmons. Pretend Michael Bidwill was interviewing candidates and telling them they have to start Simmons for the next 5 years and the mandate is to get him to a Pro Bowl level thus leading candidates to hesitate at taking the job. In that scenario who’s fault would it be that we had trouble hiring coaches - Isaiah Simmons or Michael Bidwill?

 

[Minski]

Fully expecting Vance as a one year place holder now

How on earth could you sell that to the fanbase as MB? Wide net oops.

My current wishlist order...

1. Gannon
2a. Anarumo
2b. Callahan
10. Flores
100. Glenn
10000000000000. VJ

 

[DVontel]

Keim never addressed the trenches so I disagree. ideally you are correct but it doesnt have to be that way.

To be a long substantial winner & not a 2 year wonder, it absolutely has to be that way.

even if you wanted the way you envisioned, we would basically be the Andrew Luck-Colts. Cool success for a bit, but obviously a fraud roster carried by a great QB(who could’ve been special, but was held back by his own GM to due his lack of resourcing in the trenches).

 

[RON_IN_OC]

How on earth could you sell that to the fanbase as MB? Wide net oops.

My current wishlist order...

1. Gannon
2a. Anarumo
2b. Callahan
10. Flores
100. Glenn
10000000000000. VJ

Forget the fanbase, Goodell, himself would step in if it was just a 1 year placeholder deal.