A Very Good Question

[dreamcastrocks]

Just because you don’t like the comparison doesn’t make it specifically what you asked.

You asked for playoff-ready teams making a head coaching switch and immediately getting better. I gave you three examples. It happens literally all the time.

Fair. However, to me there is a different between playoff-ready teams, and established playoff teams. The Cards haven't made the playoffs for what 5 or 6 years before this year?

 

[kerouac9]

Fair. However, to me there is a different between playoff-ready teams, and established playoff teams. The Cards haven't made the playoffs for what 5 or 6 years before this year?

So Stefanski. Last year.

Matt Nagy took a 5-11 team under John Fox immediately to 12-4 and the playoffs.

Like how many examples of EXACTLY WHAT YOURE SAYING NEVER HAPPENS actually happening would be sufficient for you? It’s happening right before your eyes this season with the LA Chargers.

 

[DaHilg]

I hear you but this defense hasn't allowed many points (last 3 weeks have been bad).

Top 10 defenses so far in allowing points - we are 5th best.

You must be registered for see images attach

Part of this is supplemented by the fact we can’t stop the run this clock gets chewed up… fewer possessions = fewer point, even for the victor.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So Stefanski. Last year.

Matt Nagy took a 5-11 team under John Fox immediately to 12-4 and the playoffs.

Like how many examples of EXACTLY WHAT YOURE SAYING NEVER HAPPENS actually happening would be sufficient for you? It’s happening right before your eyes this season with the LA Chargers.

You win.

I didn't say it never happens, I said I couldn't recall. Keep your caps yourself next time!

 

[Chopper0080]

Is it? We don't have a "win now" roster.

The arguments that could be made IMO are Burrow or Herbert (Watson if he was cleared). Mahomes doesn't count because of his salary and I am just not a huge Josh Allen person. I like him and hope he does well but I am probably not trading Kyler for any other QB in the NFL at this point.

I think we have the best young talent at QB with two more years of reasonable salary and a system that was designed for him.

I don't believe Keim will ever have our roster as one of the best in the league. Even more so now that we are going to have a large QB contract to have to navigate around. I just think that Kliff would be better served with a QB who can help him over the next 5 years vs one that makes things more difficult. Just a personal opinion though and I go back and forth on it as well.

 

[Chopper0080]

Oh, I think you're right in that he isn't going, and we're likely chatting about nothing, really. But, hey, it's a message board. What else are we going to do?

Hey, I love to chat about non-sense that will never happen. Why I love roster building and the draft and FA. All discussion about players who we never seem to draft or sign. lol

My point is more about the vitriol these discussions devolve into. I get that people want better and there is plenty of areas of improvement, but I know I have to remind myself that despite his issues, Kyler is the 3rd best QB I have watched play for AZ. I also have to remind myself that one of my issues with him was his inexperience so I shouldn't be shocked when it rears it's head in year 3.

 

[Stout]

Hey, I love to chat about non-sense that will never happen. Why I love roster building and the draft and FA. All discussion about players who we never seem to draft or sign. lol

My point is more about the vitriol these discussions devolve into. I get that people want better and there is plenty of areas of improvement, but I know I have to remind myself that despite his issues, Kyler is the 3rd best QB I have watched play for AZ. I also have to remind myself that one of my issues with him was his inexperience so I shouldn't be shocked when it rears it's head in year 3.

My big problem is I feel, with Keim and KK, that we're wasting prime KM years. That's why I don't want KK to get more time, as I don't think he will ever take us to the promised land or develop KM in the way he needs.

 

[Chopper0080]

Something dramatic happens? Like starting our 7-0, and then going to the playoffs on a 5 game losing streak? Having teams regress the last two years instead of improving? Making the same procedural/penalty errors?

If we lose out and then flame out in the first round, I don't know how he's retained. Do people think he'll somehow become a better coach?

I just don't know how anyone after watching KK in operation for 3 years can say that they think he's ever going to be a top head coach.
Once things start getting tough, he folds, and his teams lose. The lack of discipline and focus has been evident from the beginning, and the little mistakes are what KILLS this team. In the playoffs against all good teams, our margin for error becomes even less, and with more time to gameplan I don't see that working in our favor.


You make think it's silly, but if we flame out as expected, I guarantee there will be plenty of people who want KK gone. If we're forced to stomach another year of this crap next year, I guarantee you'll be finding this talk to be considerably less silly.

9th winningest coach since the franchise moved to AZ. Will coach the team to it's 5th double digit win total since the franchise moved to AZ. I get that their is a history of decline with Kliff, but his bad is not the bad I have seen from Arizona HCs over the past 30 years. And all with a QB who played essentially one year of post high school football and it was at a school with a significant talent advantage over every team it played expect Alabama. That matters.

 

[ajcardfan]

So Stefanski. Last year.

Matt Nagy took a 5-11 team under John Fox immediately to 12-4 and the playoffs.

Like how many examples of EXACTLY WHAT YOURE SAYING NEVER HAPPENS actually happening would be sufficient for you? It’s happening right before your eyes this season with the LA Chargers.

I think the Chargers don't make it. Felt like they have been so overrated all season.

 

[Stout]

9th winningest coach since the franchise moved to AZ. Will coach the team to it's 5th double digit win total since the franchise moved to AZ. I get that their is a history of decline with Kliff, but his bad is not the bad I have seen from Arizona HCs over the past 30 years. And all with a QB who played essentially one year of post high school football and it was at a school with a significant talent advantage over every team it played expect Alabama. That matters.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. All of this ignores the absolute suckitude we've had for coaches, for the most part. Who cares if he's the 9th-winningist coach on a historically loser franchise? I don't think we can much hang our hat on that stat to defend him or want to keep him. JMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

My big problem is I feel, with Keim and KK, that we're wasting prime KM years. That's why I don't want KK to get more time, as I don't think he will ever take us to the promised land or develop KM in the way he needs.

I think the price we will pay with Kyler is that the window will be smaller than it should be because of his inexperience when we drafted him.

 

[Chopper0080]

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. All of this ignores the absolute suckitude we've had for coaches, for the most part. Who cares if he's the 9th-winningist coach on a historically loser franchise? I don't think we can much hang our hat on that stat to defend him or want to keep him. JMO.

Because many would argue that you have to walk before you can crawl. We are going to the playoffs for the 6th time in 39 years. Late season collapse or not, you aren't going to fire your 42 year old HC who is doing it in his 3rd year and to dismiss that fact is also an error.

I get it that the details matter, but here is the blind resume.

42 year old HC who has won more games every season as a coach and gets to the playoffs his third season. Has coached his young QB to a ROTY and two Pro Bowls in those three seasons. Has done this in arguably the toughest division in football.

That is the dream of most franchises in the NFL.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Hey, I love to chat about non-sense that will never happen. Why I love roster building and the draft and FA. All discussion about players who we never seem to draft or sign. lol

My point is more about the vitriol these discussions devolve into. I get that people want better and there is plenty of areas of improvement, but I know I have to remind myself that despite his issues, Kyler is the 3rd best QB I have watched play for AZ. I also have to remind myself that one of my issues with him was his inexperience so I shouldn't be shocked when it rears it's head in year 3.

3rd? You don't think he hasn't already surpassed Palmer?

 

[DVontel]

Because many would argue that you have to walk before you can crawl. We are going to the playoffs for the 6th time in 39 years. Late season collapse or not, you aren't going to fire your 42 year old HC who is doing it in his 3rd year and to dismiss that fact is also an error.

I get it that the details matter, but here is the blind resume.

42 year old HC who has won more games every season as a coach and gets to the playoffs his third season. Has coached his young QB to a ROTY and two Pro Bowls in those three seasons. Has done this in arguably the toughest division in football.

That is the dream of most franchises in the NFL.

Kliff’s resumé is fascinating to look at in a weird way. Took over the worst team in the NFL & the team has improved in the win total each year with the playoffs trip in his 3rd year. I don’t think anyone envisioned him being apart of that. This is not in defense of him. The collapses are troubling, shouldn’t be defending that, but man it’s real interesting to look at.

 

[Harry]

I think the league has a rule about putting playoff tickets on sale if you’re close to making the dance.


Tampa dumped Tony Dungy and Gruden lead them to the Super Bowl the following year.

Green Bay dumped Mike McCarthy and immediately got better.

Cleveland dumped Freddie Kitchens for Stefanski and made the playoffs the next year.

It’s not hard to dig out these names, bro.

Sometimes it’s just timing. Dungy goes to Indy and wins it all.

 

[Harry]

Hey, I love to chat about non-sense that will never happen. Why I love roster building and the draft and FA. All discussion about players who we never seem to draft or sign. lol

My point is more about the vitriol these discussions devolve into. I get that people want better and there is plenty of areas of improvement, but I know I have to remind myself that despite his issues, Kyler is the 3rd best QB I have watched play for AZ. I also have to remind myself that one of my issues with him was his inexperience so I shouldn't be shocked when it rears it's head in year 3.

My fear is he may have peaked if he’s unwilling to humble up and learn better skills. I’d keep him. However, I wouldn’t extend him. Let’s see where he goes next year. If he’s great pay him the big money. I don’t see him leaving Hopkins. If he doesn’t move forward, it’s time to move on.

 

[Harry]

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. All of this ignores the absolute suckitude we've had for coaches, for the most part. Who cares if he's the 9th-winningist coach on a historically loser franchise? I don't think we can much hang our hat on that stat to defend him or want to keep him. JMO.

Under Dollar Bill too often this team hired the cheapest coaches they could find. They lost good coaches over money. You can really see a results difference after MB took over.

 

[THESMEL]

There are tons of people out there who don't have a clue what they're talking about,"

I hope Kyler was talking about the details, because many fans have seen bad and good football For 3-4 times his lifetime. I understand him on the surface. But down deep, we are the Arizona Cardinal football club. Players and coaches come and go, GMs. Staffs good and bad.

I do agree we are not far off, but it starts with running the damned ball, like other teams are beating us with, colts only averaged 2.5 yards after the big run too start the game! But they kicked our AZ - cause we were defending the damn run every plat, opening up easier conditions for their play action and pass game.
it ain’t rocket science, don’t run effectively, they won’t defend it , makes it maximum hard for the oline, defense and special teams.

 

[DaHilg]

My big problem is I feel, with Keim and KK, that we're wasting prime KM years. That's why I don't want KK to get more time, as I don't think he will ever take us to the promised land or develop KM in the way he needs.

Completely agree.. eating another year into KMs rookie contract with a coach that looks to be not the solution of his deveopement and this teams development would be no bueno.

 

[DaHilg]

Because many would argue that you have to walk before you can crawl. We are going to the playoffs for the 6th time in 39 years. Late season collapse or not, you aren't going to fire your 42 year old HC who is doing it in his 3rd year and to dismiss that fact is also an error.

I get it that the details matter, but here is the blind resume.

42 year old HC who has won more games every season as a coach and gets to the playoffs his third season. Has coached his young QB to a ROTY and two Pro Bowls in those three seasons. Has done this in arguably the toughest division in football.

That is the dream of most franchises in the NFL.

I don’t think being 42 years old matters much in being a coach. What’s it matter if he’s 42 or 55 years old? Maybe relate socially more with the players? I don’t see value in that.

Nowadays, the lifespan of the average coach is around 4-5 years regardless of a playoff appearance in that span or not. Coaches are replaceable unless your name is Bellichek or Andy Reid (some other HOF’ers out there currently, but these are the ones consistently at the top of the game).

 

[TheCardFan]

Coaches are replaceable unless your name is Bellichek or Andy Reid

Don't forget...Reid got run out of Philly.

How nice would it be to have a HC for the Cardinals last 10 years or more?

Jim Hanifan and Coryell lasted 6 years. Coryell should have been 10 easy.
Whis and Arians were 5 years.

 

[DaHilg]

Don't forget...Reid got run out of Philly.

How nice would it be to have a HC for the Cardinals last 10 years or more?

Jim Hanifan and Coryell lasted 6 years. Coryell should have been 10 easy.
Whis and Arians were 5 years.

Ya, but you’re missing quite a lot of context there.. he also had 10 or more wins in 5 of his first 6 years AND won at least 1 playoff game in each of those 5 years. His only losing season in that span was his first season…

He got tan out of town after a 8-8 followed by a 4-12 season after not winning a SuperBowl in ~12 years. It was prob time for him to go at that point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just because you don’t like the comparison doesn’t make it specifically what you asked.

You asked for playoff-ready teams making a head coaching switch and immediately getting better. I gave you three examples. It happens literally all the time.

You also forgot Nora Turner replacing Marty Schottenheimer who couldn’t win a playoff game to save his life with San Diego, even as a 1 seed a couple times. Marty got fired, Norv came in and won multiple playoff games his first year and got them to the AFC Title game immediately and then won a playoff game the next season also.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the price we will pay with Kyler is that the window will be smaller than it should be because of his inexperience when we drafted him.

I don’t hope we’re not a prime Kyler yet. We blew his cheapest years, but I hope and expect his prime to start two years from now and run through the first two years of his third contract.

That entirely depends on him deciding that he is a “film guy” and that you can optimize your talent by building your brain as well as your body.

You also forgot Nora Turner replacing Marty Schottenheimer who couldn’t win a playoff game to save his life with San Diego, even as a 1 seed a couple times. Marty got fired, Norv came in and won multiple playoff games his first year and got them to the AFC Title game immediately and then won a playoff game the next season also.

They were already a playoff team. I felt bad for Marty. It didn’t feel like Turner got that cursed franchise much further.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I got an email from a newspaper guy asking the following. If the Cards lose their last 2 games, do I believe Kingsbury will be fired? I‘ve already indicated on the board I would fire the entire staff. However, I believe they will retain Kingsbury. In my mind the only way things might get better in that eventuality is if they mandated changes. Maybe if they required hiring an Offensive Coordinator and a QB coach that might fix the offense if Murray accepts changing. Finally they’d need to fire Joseph. I do not see those changes happening, but sadly I believe Kingsbury stays. The Cards will be so thrilled about making the playoffs, nothing else will matter. Plus if they fired the coach then didn’t make the playoffs, the blowback would be unreal.

Harry, adore your football insight but geez... I get you do not like the guy, chill lol