NFL opening night Dallas @ TB

Chopper0080

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One thing evident from watching both offenses last night was how much better they are than what we have seen from Kliff.

So much more variety. TE's heavily involved, RB's running routes that aren't just checkdown options, endless route variations, so much pre snap motion and actually moving receivers around to make the most of matchups.

It was like comparing a Botticelli to my 4 year olds finger paintings.
To be fair, I don't know that Murray can handle that much yet. Dak started 4 years in the SEC and is on year 6 in the NFL. He is a significantly more advanced passer than Kyler is even if he is not as talented. And Brady is Brady. You can just do more with those guys than you can with Kyler right now.

(If you are asking if Kliff's offense looks like it can build to that level, I would say, I don't see it right now)
 
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To be fair, I don't know that Murray can handle that much yet. Dak started 4 years in the SEC and is on year 6 in the NFL. He is a significantly more advanced passer than Kyler is even if he is not as talented. And Brady is Brady. You can just do more with those guys than you can with Kyler right now.

(If you are asking if Kliff's offense looks like it can build to that level, I would say, I don't see it right now)
This sounds like a lot of excuse making to me. If he can’t handle all the nuances it takes to run offense by year 3 in the exact same system then that’s a problem.
 

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This sounds like a lot of excuse making to me. If he can’t handle all the nuances it takes to run offense by year 3 in the exact same system then that’s a problem.
I can’t tell if this is a serious post or not. Does having more experience not matter?
 
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I can’t tell if this is a serious post or not. Does having more experience not matter?
By year three in an offense that is pretty much identical to what he ran in college and has been tailored to him specifically? And we were told way back in year one was showing everyone else what to do and calling out mistakes? Come on bro.... Time to quit cutting him some slack. If he isn’t fully engrained and mentally able to run all the nuances of this O by now something is wrong. Not even arguable. If you want to argue reading defense? Maybe. Running the offense? No way.
 

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Brady is amazing. I want to see him play until he's 50. I never thought I would ever, ever root for him, but damn, he's not human.
 

DVontel

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By year three in an offense that is pretty much identical to what he ran in college and has been tailored to him specifically? And we were told way back in year one was showing everyone else what to do and calling out mistakes? Come on bro.... Time to quit cutting him some slack. If he isn’t fully engrained and mentally able to run all the nuances of this O by now something is wrong. Not even arguable. If you want to argue reading defense? Maybe. Running the offense? No way.

I don’t think the point is that if he can run all the nuances of the offense, I’m sure he can & has. I think the point is if he can run it at the level Dak is currently at right now. With that, comes experience which Dak clearly holds over Kyler right now. I don’t see how that’s excuse making at all. I thought that would be noticeable if anything.
 

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To be fair, I don't know that Murray can handle that much yet. Dak started 4 years in the SEC and is on year 6 in the NFL. He is a significantly more advanced passer than Kyler is even if he is not as talented. And Brady is Brady. You can just do more with those guys than you can with Kyler right now.

(If you are asking if Kliff's offense looks like it can build to that level, I would say, I don't see it right now)

I can’t tell if this is a serious post or not. Does having more experience not matter?

How many years does he need?

Josh Allen came into the NFL with 649 pass attempts in Mountain West with a 56% comp percentage and a 44/21 TD/INT ratio and was fire last year running a complicated NFL offense.

Kyler had 519 pass attempts, 67% comp and 50/14.

I'm sorry but I simply don't buy that 130 less pass attempts is some major difference. Kyler entered the league more prepared than Allen did.

If he can't run an NFL offense in year 3 he's in the wrong job.

FWIW I don't think this is Kyler. I think he'd be just fine.
 

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High School - Freshman. Yes, they won. My son dropped an interception. Ugh.
Nice to hear about the win, sorry about the dropped pick. If this is your first kid to play HS football, it goes by so fast. My son is now a SR and had their opener last Friday. He can't believe that there are only 9 games left, neither can I. Both of you enjoy the run!
 

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By year three in an offense that is pretty much identical to what he ran in college and has been tailored to him specifically? And we were told way back in year one was showing everyone else what to do and calling out mistakes? Come on bro.... Time to quit cutting him some slack. If he isn’t fully engrained and mentally able to run all the nuances of this O by now something is wrong. Not even arguable. If you want to argue reading defense? Maybe. Running the offense? No way.

agreed. It’s not even like he some second, third round or even late first rounder. He was the first pick in the entire draft. Year 3 is a put up or shut up year.
 

Chopper0080

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Nice to hear about the win, sorry about the dropped pick. If this is your first kid to play HS football, it goes by so fast. My son is now a SR and had their opener last Friday. He can't believe that there are only 9 games left, neither can I. Both of you enjoy the run!
Yes, first kid and I agree that it goes by very quick. I have a friend I used to coach with who doesn't have kids and he asked why I would drive 5 hours round trip to watch a 2 hour football game. I told him you only get so many and I am not willing to miss them if I can avoid it. Enjoy the senior year.
 

Chopper0080

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How many years does he need?

Josh Allen came into the NFL with 649 pass attempts in Mountain West with a 56% comp percentage and a 44/21 TD/INT ratio and was fire last year running a complicated NFL offense.

Kyler had 519 pass attempts, 67% comp and 50/14.

I'm sorry but I simply don't buy that 130 less pass attempts is some major difference. Kyler entered the league more prepared than Allen did.

If he can't run an NFL offense in year 3 he's in the wrong job.

FWIW I don't think this is Kyler. I think he'd be just fine.
Kyler played one year at Oklahoma where everything was blocked well and he had matchup advantages all over the field. Josh Allen had average at best talent and had to find or create mismatches to be successful. It is just different. And it isn't to say Kyler isn't executing the offense at a high level, it is just that Dak and Brady have seen so much that they know and are confident in identifying defenses and creating mismatches they can take advantage of. The play with a precision and understanding that Kyler is just not at.

Also 6'5 240 with 4.75 speed makes things significantly easier than 5'10 215 with 4.4 speed as a QB. Allen doesn't have to be able to move in the pocket to create throwing lanes like Kyler needs to be able to do.
 

Chopper0080

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Being critical of Kyler's pocket execution in the passing game is akin to being critical of Lamar Jackson's. They both aren't there and may never get there, but they do so many other good things they can still be successful.
 

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Watching both these QB's throwing up the middle just reminds me that KM struggles doing it
And by watching the game I hope you noticed both teams ran play action from under center to get clear passing lanes over the middle as well. They did that with QBs much taller. It would help if we did that as well every now and then.
 

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Kyler played one year at Oklahoma where everything was blocked well and he had matchup advantages all over the field. Josh Allen had average at best talent and had to find or create mismatches to be successful. It is just different. And it isn't to say Kyler isn't executing the offense at a high level, it is just that Dak and Brady have seen so much that they know and are confident in identifying defenses and creating mismatches they can take advantage of. The play with a precision and understanding that Kyler is just not at.

Also 6'5 240 with 4.75 speed makes things significantly easier than 5'10 215 with 4.4 speed as a QB. Allen doesn't have to be able to move in the pocket to create throwing lanes like Kyler needs to be able to do.

This is basically saying Kyler can only play with an elite O line and receivers and he'll always be restricted due to size.

If any of this is true theres no hope and it doesn't matter how many snaps he had in college.

Kyler has made 1100 NFL pass attempts. If he's not ready now I doubt he ever will be.
 

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Yes, first kid and I agree that it goes by very quick. I have a friend I used to coach with who doesn't have kids and he asked why I would drive 5 hours round trip to watch a 2 hour football game. I told him you only get so many and I am not willing to miss them if I can avoid it. Enjoy the senior year.
DAD of the year. You get it.
 
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By year three in an offense that is pretty much identical to what he ran in college and has been tailored to him specifically? And we were told way back in year one was showing everyone else what to do and calling out mistakes? Come on bro.... Time to quit cutting him some slack. If he isn’t fully engrained and mentally able to run all the nuances of this O by now something is wrong. Not even arguable. If you want to argue reading defense? Maybe. Running the offense? No way.

I'm pretty sure he has the offense down pat but I don't think he has the experience necessary reading defenses. He's getting better but that is definitely something that needs more experience.
 

THESMEL

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run the ball with the running backs an equal percentage of time and everyone will play better, run has to be a primary weapon. Except our 2ndary - I don’t think it will cover this worse NFL pass offense.
 

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run the ball with the running backs an equal percentage of time and everyone will play better, run has to be a primary weapon. Except our 2ndary - I don’t think it will cover this worse NFL pass offense.
There's only a few elite backs and none of them command the money of a Hopkins or Murray. They're not paying these dudes to hand the ball off and block.
 

THESMEL

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well if you want to see the best of Hopkins and Murray - running backs have to earn play action and r/p option - don’t disrespect NFL defenses by playing one dimensional - I mean there has to be the ability to punish a defense that goes small, all in on pass rush and pass defense defense, beyond getting Murray hurt more.
 

HomerPimpson

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well if you want to see the best of Hopkins and Murray - running backs have to earn play action and r/p option - don’t disrespect NFL defenses by playing one dimensional - I mean there has to be the ability to punish a defense that goes small, all in on pass rush and pass defense defense, beyond getting Murray hurt more.
That used to be true, when nickel and dime defensive players weren't as fast, as big, and as strong as they are now. Now, a team can play 5 DBs almost exclusively and still contain the run.

The art of run blocking has also seriously deteriorated in the last few decades. TEs used to be primarily blockers back in the day, that's why I love a TE like Kelce or Gronk because they're elite blockers at that position as well as being vertical threats. That's rare and elite though.
 

THESMEL

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Still very much true - even more so with a 17 game season! And this joke of a preseason, who is more prepared opening day , Titans or cardinals? who is more prepared for a late season weather game , cardinals or Titans? I really don’t know, they have been in bubble wrap? I do know we have not had the will to run since dennis green. We did well when we could run , edge and CJ , even beanie, DJ , petered out when we couldn’t Run.
 

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Still very much true - even more so with a 17 game season! And this joke of a preseason, who is more prepared opening day , Titans or cardinals? who is more prepared for a late season weather game , cardinals or Titans? I really don’t know, they have been in bubble wrap? I do know we have not had the will to run since dennis green. We did well when we could run , edge and CJ , even beanie, DJ , petered out when we couldn’t Run.
I think that's actually very insightful and I hadn't thought of that aspect. It will be very interesting if run percentages and averages increase due to the extra game, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Especially when teams are managing fatigue later in the season. In your scenario, a team like the Titans don't actually gain anything though because Henry isn't going to get MORE carries this year, which means the ball will go to lesser players. Still interesting.
 

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