Suns @ Mavericks Monday game thread 2-1-2021

[Ronin]

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[elindholm]

Ask Nikola Jokic if he feels that Ayton would lose the team playoff games.

You can't lose playoff games until you get to be in them.

 

[Chaplin]

OKC game we just lost was on him. When Booker goes out, we needed him to step up and instead he scored 5 points in a game we lost at hone by 5 to a lousy team.

That's just an opinion, not a quantifiable reason for the loss. Sure, in ALL our losses it would be better if Ayton scores 30 points.

That's like saying we lost the OKC game because CP3 didn't score 5 more points.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's just an opinion, not a quantifiable reason for the loss. Sure, in ALL our losses it would be better if Ayton scores 30 points.

That's like saying we lost the OKC game because CP3 didn't score 5 more points.

Dude that argument can be made about any player in any game. You can’t seriously be arguing that Ayton’s 5 point game when our best scorer was out and we lost by five wasn’t a primary reason we lost, can you?

 

[Ronin]

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[Chaplin]

Dude that argument can be made about any player in any game. You can’t seriously be arguing that Ayton’s 5 point game when our best scorer was out and we lost by five wasn’t a primary reason we lost, can you?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

To claim that Ayton is going to lose us a playoff game is lunacy. But I don't expect you to agree with that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's just an opinion, not a quantifiable reason for the loss. Sure, in ALL our losses it would be better if Ayton scores 30 points.

That's like saying we lost the OKC game because CP3 didn't score 5 more points.

Chap, come on. No one is saying they needed Ayton to score 30 points or anything close to that. But he just completely no-showed on offense and gave up 21/11/4 to his matchup with Horford. I mean, if the above is really case, then you can never lay a loss at anyone's feet.

it's okay to just say "Oh yeah, that one was on him".

 

[Chaplin]

Fine.

I'm out.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was wondering why Nader didn't play yesterday so a reported sore ankle explains it.

 

[TJ]

Chap, come on. No one is saying they needed Ayton to score 30 points or anything close to that. But he just completely no-showed on offense and gave up 21/11/4 to his matchup with Horford. I mean, if the above is really case, then you can never lay a loss at anyone's feet.

it's okay to just say "Oh yeah, that one was on him".

I hate blaming individuals for losses. Ayton played like doo doo that game, but others could've also stepped up to get that win. Just like Ayton should step up when Booker has 8+ turnovers or CP3 cant hit the broadside of a barn.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

To claim that Ayton is going to lose us a playoff game is lunacy. But I don't expect you to agree with that.

You’re changing the discussion. You claimed that Ayton can’t be held responsible for losing a game. Cheese pointed one out that’s difficult to argue against. Now you’re reverting back to an argument with someone else about a potential playoff game. I never mentioned anything about a playoff rather your contention that Ayton shouldn’t be blamed for his 5 point game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hate blaming individuals for losses. Ayton played like doo doo that game, but others could've also stepped up to get that win. Just like Ayton should step up when Booker has 8+ turnovers or CP3 cant hit the broadside of a barn.

Well the individuals play the game so it’s either them or the coach in some combination of responsibility. In some games it’s tough to discern where the failure occurred. When you’re outdone 21/11 to 5/6(?) when your leading scorer is out, it’s a little easier, no?

 

[Chaplin]

You’re changing the discussion. You claimed that Ayton can’t be held responsible for losing a game. Cheese pointed one out that’s difficult to argue against. Now you’re reverting back to an argument with someone else about a potential playoff game. I never mentioned anything about a playoff rather your contention that Ayton shouldn’t be blamed for his 5 point game.

I was responding to someone that said that Ayton would lose us a playoff game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was responding to someone that said that Ayton would lose us a playoff game.

I get that. But the conversation evolved to the point where you said there’s not a loss that could be laid at Ayton’s feet (or something to that effect). Cheese pointed to that specific game and you seemingly tried to argue that the loss couldn’t be attributed to Ayton. No? Am I getting that evolution of the conversation wrong?

 

[Dr. Jones]

I hate blaming individuals for losses. Ayton played like doo doo that game, but others could've also stepped up to get that win. Just like Ayton should step up when Booker has 8+ turnovers or CP3 cant hit the broadside of a barn.

Well the individuals play the game so it’s either them or the coach in some combination of responsibility. In some games it’s tough to discern where the failure occurred. When you’re outdone 21/11 to 5/6(?) when your leading scorer is out, it’s a little easier, no?

When benching your #1 pick is the best way to field a playoff level 5-man unit in crunch time...... Ayton just doesn't seem to show the fortitude to play in big pressure moments.

He's still so young but damn man..... those 7 minutes were pretty bad. And a more capable squad lights his butt up.

 

[Chaplin]

When benching your #1 pick is the best way to field a playoff level 5-man unit in crunch time...... Ayton just doesn't seem to show the fortitude to play in big pressure moments.

He's still so young but damn man..... those 7 minutes were pretty bad. And a more capable squad lights his butt up.

Are you advocating for that? I would say no to benching, and no to benching him being the best way to field a playoff unit. That seems pretty reactionary in response to 7 minutes of bad play.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When benching your #1 pick is the best way to field a playoff level 5-man unit in crunch time...... Ayton just doesn't seem to show the fortitude to play in big pressure moments.

He's still so young but damn man..... those 7 minutes were pretty bad. And a more capable squad lights his butt up.

I still have huge expectations for Ayton otherwise I wouldn’t get so frustrated. I still consider him key to our future.

 

[TJ]

When benching your #1 pick is the best way to field a playoff level 5-man unit in crunch time...... Ayton just doesn't seem to show the fortitude to play in big pressure moments.

He's still so young but damn man..... those 7 minutes were pretty bad. And a more capable squad lights his butt up.

Meanwhile, last Sunday, he played the entire 4th and dominated the Mavs on defense and was productive on the offensive end. And afterwards, he was nothing but appreciative to Monty for putting him in that spot.

Obviously, you're looking for his negatives, but it all balances itself out. Don't take a singular situation and overgeneralize it. I've seen Booker kept on the bench for an extended period of time because bench players were playing better. Monty is big on chemistry, but he also knows who his best three players are in the end.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Are you advocating for that? I would say no to benching, and no to benching him being the best way to field a playoff unit. That seems pretty reactionary in response to 7 minutes of bad play.

Agree with Chap here, but maybe not for the same reasons. The Suns need to continue to put him in those situations to see if he's capable of learning and advancing, or if he'll continue to struggle. Gotta get those reps in, even at the expense of a few losses (and yes, possibly even if it means jeopardizing playoff positioning or even a spot altogether) so that they have that information to determine whether he's worth a max extension.

But, who am I kidding, DA will probably get the max regardless.

 

[GatorAZ]

Agree with Chap here, but maybe not for the same reasons. The Suns need to continue to put him in those situations to see if he's capable of learning and advancing, or if he'll continue to struggle. Gotta get those reps in, even at the expense of a few losses (and yes, possibly even if it means jeopardizing playoff positioning or even a spot altogether) so that they have that information to determine whether he's worth a max extension.

But, who am I kidding, DA will probably get the max regardless.

Sarver sure as hell isn’t giving him the max. If they let the market determine his value a team out there might offer something huge.

 

[Covert Rain]

Commenting late but is it me or did Chris Paul seemed unleashed this game? I have felt all season that he has been trying really hard to get everyone involved. Maybe someone said....go get yours. This proves that he can get his points, Booker can get his and even if Ayton isn't giving you twenty.....as long as he shows up in the paint (17 rebounds) it can result in some wins. Man if Ayton puts it all together and puts up 18 on nights like this? It could be the difference between playing these games close verses closing teams out.

 

[elindholm]

Sarver sure as hell isn’t giving him the max. If they let the market determine his value a team out there might offer something huge.

Ayton is absolutely getting the max. Look at the pool of players who get max extensions on their rookie deals and tell me that no GM in the league will put Ayton at that level.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton is absolutely getting the max. Look at the pool of players who get max extensions on their rookie deals and tell me that no GM in the league will put Ayton at that level.

Agree. Someone will give him that money unless he totally tanks it. Sarver doesn't set the market. All it takes is a couple teams willing to pay him that much and that's the market.

 

[overseascardfan]

Interesting scenario in a couple of years. Doncic is definitely getting frustrated in DAL with the skid they are on. Not sure if Cuban can bring in the necessary talent to help Doncic turn DAL into title contender. Say Doncic doesn't sign extension with DAL, could PHX be a possible destination for him? He and Ayton will be eligible for max deal around the same time but PHX could ask Ayton to wait to sign max deal until Doncic signs and then they can sign Ayton under Bird rules to get around cap. Sort of what MIA is trying to do with Bam, they are trying to get another big piece before having him sign a max extension, they tried to do it with Giannis but he re-signed with MIL.

Total pipe dream as I figure if Doncic was to leave DAL it would be for LAL.

 

[Ronin]

Replay is on NBATV. Like right now