Cardiac
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Posts
- 12,452
- Reaction score
- 4,155
Yep, your prince is the ONLY player that doesn't HAVE to run the 40. If you can't see the hypocrisy in this then we are done.
Cards meeting today (3/19) in OK with Murray
- Thread starter az jam
- Start date
Yep, your prince is the ONLY player that doesn't HAVE to run the 40. If you can't see the hypocrisy in this then we are done.
POISON
Formerly known as Okieguy
Lame......
He didn't run the 40. He won't run the 40... and he will STILL go top 5....as much as that hurts your feelings. When it's your money on the line- you can do as you please too...but that would require you to be good at something other than talking crap on the internet .Go figure .
Cardiac
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Posts
- 12,452
- Reaction score
- 4,155
...and you provided ZERO answers to my question about how running the 40 would benefit him...that's says all I needed to know. I told you I would consider changing my stance if you could provide a decent argument for it.
Solar7
Go Suns
I get it, but he's also playing against guys in college that are going to be insurance salesmen while reaping the benefits of a stacked roster with innovative coaching. That team is tailor-made to mask the deficiencies of a player.
No one's frustrating me with the "he could be really good" argument, he's just not a surefire #1 overall pick. Every Murray supporter seems to be outraged we could dare question that this is going to be the best player in NFL history. There's frequent concepts like:
"Height isn't at all an issue, NFL QBs just haven't been given a chance"
"Murray won't get hit, he's the best at avoiding hits, don't even worry about injury"
"He is a better player than Russel Wilson"
"Baseball is absolutely not a concern and it's ridiculous of anyone to question it"
"Not participating in a majority of workouts in any session is not at all a problem and you're ridiculous to question it"
"He's only played one year but questioning why he failed at another program and was never considered a Heisman candidate is again, ridiculous"
I'm not seeing a ton of Murray supporters who will acknowledge there are some major issues around the guy. It's either he's the best player to ever hold a football, or you're a blind hater.
POISON
Formerly known as Okieguy
I believe it was Texas A&M dude
No, I didn't say you were a failure. You are good at talking crap on the internet, like I said.
Dude is a top 10 pick in two sports and middle aged dudes telling him what he should And shouldn't be doing. Not sure how he has done this well so far without you and your wise expert advice .
Cardiac
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Posts
- 12,452
- Reaction score
- 4,155
Okay, my bad. The flogging and hanging takes place at noon tomorrow.
Solar7
Go Suns
I'll answer for him. Because if a guy was really passionate about being the first overall pick and proving his worth to be the best player he could be, he would do everything he possibly could to prove it.
Case in point, your boy Baker Mayfield, who proved to everyone that he would do anything and everything in this process, when he didn't really have to.
It's a knee-jerk reaction to people who have anointed him infallible before the dude even takes a single NFL snap.
One would think the Cards would have some stipulations in his contract that would safeguard them against a jump to baseball due to him changing his mind mid contract. If the A’s can write them in their deals the cardinals certainly will.
POISON
Formerly known as Okieguy
Nothing in California is cheap. Over taxed, illegal aliens everywhere, bums camping on the streets, measles and other diseases are "magically " showing up again. You also may have to dodge feces wherever you walk in San Francisco or LA. Enjoy your cheap beer, lol
Solar7
Go Suns
A contract stipulation isn't going to get you a new QB of the future. It's gonna save you a couple million in real cash, maybe, still affect the cap, and leave our starting QB as Ryan Tannehill or something.
Cardiac
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Posts
- 12,452
- Reaction score
- 4,155
There are plenty of athletes that have god given talent that will be drafted high, doesn't mean that I can't question some of their mental make up or decision making.
A red flag for me is he gains 20 lbs and then won't run the 40. How many draftee's. top ten or not refuse to run the 40? Either he is hiding something or thinks he is special, either way I don't like it and I'm guessing decision makers in the NFL have concerns as well.
Plenty of fantastic talents that have flamed out because they don't have the right mental make up. Murray has some red flags based on his decisions during the draft process. He may prove to be the exception to the rule but he may not.
He isn't a cant-miss prospect, Imo. That's bosa and Williams. He is a high risk player bc he really has no comps. But he is probably the highest reward as well, if he pans out. I just don't buy the "he's too short" talk when OU's offensive line is literally bigger than most NFL lines . He didn't fail at Texas am...he played sparingly as a true freshman and then transferred out at the end of the year (as well as the other 5 star qb who he split time with). Texas AM was a dumpster fire under sumlin .He got out after his freshman year. Sat behind Baker Mayfield for two years.
The question is....does he give you a better chance to win than Rosen. To me, Rosen is Jay Cutler 0.9. Big arm...avg accuracy ..turnover prone...And kind of a head case.
That's a fair concern. He probably added some weight for his combine weigh in. Played around 195 during the season. If he didnt run bc of the added weight, then that is a business decision. If you knew it wasn't going to help you to run after the added weight, then why run? To satisfy curious minds? The only people that matter are the dudes writing the checks. And If they don't care about the 40, then it is what it is.
His attitude if a fair concern . He's a terrible interview. But you have to go off that his teammates and coaches say...and they have been unanimously positive at every level. Dan Patrick interviews really don't mean crap in regards to being a leader or his character.
Solar7
Go Suns
- Highest reward
Sure, not gonna argue there. Any QB is the highest potential reward though. But also, generally, the highest risk. You simply can't give up on Murray next year, no matter how awful he might be.
- Too short
College kids with his kind of athletic ability aren't forced to stay in their lane/the pocket like NFL players are. I know there's changes in the wind, but guys like Brees and Wilson have to compensate for their height by being extraordinarily smart players.
- A&M
You're just not going to win me with the "didn't even win the open competition for starting QB because Sumlin was a mess, and that's why he threw 5 TDs to 7 INTs and transferred to be the backup to a walk-on" talk. Not sure what else to say here.
- Him vs. Rosen
I don't know. Rosen is of course a question mark, but it's just as relevant as asking "Does Ryan Fitzpatrick give you a better chance to win than Rosen?" He might, in the moment. But ending things with Rosen means accepting we wasted three draft picks for what is likely to be a marginal return, and puts us firmly out of the discussion for more tantalizing and consistent players in the coming years, like Tua and Lawrence.
And all of that is ignoring that if Murray flops, we're going to be out a General Manager, trying to find someone to take over a roster with two of the riskiest choices at HC and QB in the history of the NFL.
BigRedRage
Reckless
He's the fastest QB in the draft...that's not a debate. 40 time or not.
Running doesn't improve his stock right now. Posting a slower time does hurt his stock. I've got no problem with him making a business decision to not run it.
The baker situation was different. He was considered the #3 or #4 QB in that class, and no talk about him going #1 until the day before. He had tons of room to improve his draft stock. That's completely different than being near #1 unanimous prior to combine...where the only way to go is down .
OP
OP
az jam
ASFN Icon
Thanks for coming on to this board and all your comments, thoughts and information on Murray. I do respect your opinion and feel bad about some of the immature behavior by some on this Board. I just have learned to ignore it. I'm a long term Cards season ticket holder and do like Josh Rosen. I think KK can develop him and the Cards can build a good team with him. On the other hand, I feel Murray is special and can be an impact player especially in KK's offense. IMO the Cards are going to draft him. It will be an exciting season. The debates between him and Rosen will continue through out their careers.
He split time at A&M with another freshman 5 star qb. They split starts and split quarters in the game. He played one year as a true freshman , in the SEC. Thats not a full seasons worth of stats. BOTH of those freshman QBs who started, transferred at the end of the year. I'm not concerned that he went 5 tds 7 ints as a true freshman, in the SEC , in limited playing time, for one year. He transferred and had to sit a year due to transfer years...and he had to watch while Baker had one of the best seasons in college football history. So yes...Baker started the next year too. Not going to hold his limited playing time as a true freshman against him.
I will say this- I heard that if Baker had not performed how he did the previous year....and and they were both clean slates with no prior of knowledge of success/failure...that Kyler would have won that job. But thats not how it went down, and they weren't going to bench Baker after the season he had.
Solar7
Go Suns
Sure, I'm down to level set and say he's the fastest QB in the draft. However, he's also put on weight because of doubts about his size, and he might not be able to maintain the same speed. That's what I need to see, is if the guy's frame is maxed out to hold weight and keep that elite gear.
More power to Kyler Murray to maximize himself getting paid, but as a paying fan, I'm not interested in making sure Kyler gets paid, I'm interested in seeing the team draft a player that will win games. As a GM, I'm interested in the guy who is going to do his all to make sure I keep my job.
You do realize that Kyler has nothing guaranteed to him yet, right? If we and the Giants pass on him, he could pull a real Aaron Rodgers.
Sure financial protection but still a completely blown #1 pick if he did that which would set this team wayyyyy back... BIG PICTURE.
