The Rosen Problem

[Ohcrap75]

Not denying that you may be right. And honestly...... I will be fine either way.

I will be a die hard fan regardless, just prefer to root for a team willing to swing for the fences over a play it safe, let's hope our prototypical looking QB is better than literally all of the advanced stats say he will be.

If our GM will hire an unconventional HC. I would hope he would have the balls to hire an unconventional QB when the opportunity presents itself. Especially when that QB's ceiling has the chance to be so generational in nature.

The unfortunate part of this is that the board seems to be taking sides and subconsciously disliking one player more than they generally would to make the case for their guy. No matter how bad I would want us to give Rosen one more season to see what he has, I have to realize that there is a real possibility that Murray will be our guy. And because I will still be a fan, I don't want to allow myself to hate the dude before he gets his fair shot. So this is my peace offering to all the "Kyler Guys"!! If we go that direction, I will truly be hoping you were right about Murray!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Maybe. I do believe I am looking at all of the data and then basing my decision off of those results.

The arguments that annoy me are the ones that do not advance the discussion.

1. Name calling. Dwarf. T-Rex. etc.
2. All of that data doesn't matter when you get to the big dance.
3. Look at the ALABAMA game! But then ignore that Oklahoma's defense lost that game, Not KM's play.
4. He didn't run the 40! Look..... He must not be fast!

About the part I bolded:
Based on the vitriol of some of those posters... I think they would prefer to be right about their position instead of eating crow. In fact, they will probably say something like: "I'm not sorry that Kyler changed the game, How was I supposed to know that would happen!?!?!"

He played like ***** in the Alabama game.

19/37 is a poor completion percentage.

Many horrible throws.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Regressed during college? You can't even present a good argument.

He was obviously better as a junior than as a freshman. At least google his stats and you will see that.

You do realize he play for Jim Mora? Mora is an awful football coach who has failed everywhere he's gone.

That's fair. My apologies for the exaggeration.

What I should have said: Had no significant statistical improvements made in the three years he was at UCLA.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I like Murray too, but he isn't a perfect prospect like you guys make him out.

There is legitimate concerns about why he won't fully workout. Legitimate concerns about his devotion to football. Legitimate concerns about his weight and height.

And the Cardinals could be missing out on a franchise defensive player.

If Rosen becomes a good quarterback and Bosa/Williams become a franchise defensive player, Murray better be a transcendent player to make it worth it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That's fair. My apologies for the exaggeration.

What I should have said: Had no significant statistical improvements made in the three years he was at UCLA.

He was good as a freshman. UCLA actually got significantly worse as a team while he was there.

He did improve in nearly every category.

 

[Dr. Jones]

He was good as a freshman. UCLA actually got significantly worse as a team while he was there.

He did improve in nearly every category.

Hence the word significant.
3% on his comp percentage.
1 INT better
9 less passes. 100 more yards.

All of his slight improvements are statistically insignificant when looked at from a higher elevation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hence the word significant.
3% on his comp percentage.
1 INT better
9 less passes. 100 more yards.

All of his slight improvements are statistically insignificant when looked at from a higher elevation.

On a much worse team.

 

[Dr. Jones]

On a much worse team.

2015: 8-5
2016: 4-8 <-- He barely played
2017: 6-7

2 games does not equate to "much worse". Especially when you look at how crappy the Pac-12 was. They finished one game out of 2nd place in the Pac-12 south his senior year.

 

[BW52]

Keep beating on them with facts Doctor. We've got the right of it as long as work from the idea of Murray's talent and potential.

.Another real fact-How many 5`10 QBs have been successful in rthe NFL? How many 5`10 QBs have been worthy of Top pick in the draft?
Here`s a real fact CW-Murray 5`10 and with added weight has twice refused to run in front of scouts.How many 5`10 QBs have been the exception to the rule about short Qbs?

 

[Krangodnzr]

2015: 8-5
2016: 4-8 <-- He barely played
2017: 6-7

2 games does not equate to "much worse". Especially when you look at how crappy the Pac-12 was. They finished one game out of 2nd place in the Pac-12 south his senior year.

Record doesn't tell the whole story.

It's college football bruh. 6 games are usually easy wins for most programs.

 

[Dr. Jones]

2015: 8-5
2016: 4-8 <-- He barely played
2017: 6-7

2 games does not equate to "much worse". Especially when you look at how crappy the Pac-12 was. They finished one game out of 2nd place in the Pac-12 south his senior year.

Is it fair to say that Josh Rosen (from 16 to 17) was only worth 2 wins above his backup? In college?

Or that even though his team got worse (in your opinion) he didn't elevate the team around him?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Look at the difference.

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[Krangodnzr]

Look at the difference.

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Meh just pull the full stats and look.

UCLAs defense was REALLY bad his junior year.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

.Another real fact-How many 5`10 QBs have been successful in rthe NFL? How many 5`10 QBs have been worthy of Top pick in the draft?
Here`s a real fact CW-Murray 5`10 and with added weight has twice refused to run in front of scouts.How many 5`10 QBs have been the exception to the rule about short Qbs?

BW52, this morning I posted in another thread that while his height matters, its outweighed by all the other evidence in his favor. Please go check that post out sir. It's in the Murray may not be running thread.

Also, this morning there's a news article from a local beat-writer here in OKC that is speculating that Murray did not run because he already is locked in as the number one pick, and did not want to risk injury.

It's only speculation, but its a reasonable alternative to the theory that he was scared to run because of his weight.

 

[BW52]

BW52, this morning I posted in another thread that while his height matters, its outweighed by all the other evidence in his favor. Please go check that post out sir. It's in the Murray may not be running thread.

Also, this morning there's a news article from a local beat-writer here in OKC that is speculating that Murray did not run because he already is locked in as the number one pick, and did not want to risk injury.

It's only speculation, but its a reasonable alternative to the theory that he was scared to run because of his weight.

Speculation by a HOMER newspaper.Reasonable? come on CW...that's stretching a bit?The way it looks is that he didn`t run because of the added weight...that's the logical explanation.CW I admire your loyalty to the guy but the draft pick locked up is pure fantasy by the OKie writer IMHO.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Speculation by a HOMER newspaper.Reasonable? come on CW...that's stretching a bit?The way it looks is that he didn`t run because of the added weight...that's the logical explanation.CW I admire your loyalty to the guy but the draft pick locked up is pure fantasy by the OKie writer IMHO.

How dare you the cast a shadow on the journalistic integrity of the Daily Oklahoman sir! How dare you!

 

[BW52]

How dare you the cast a shadow on the journalistic integrity of the Daily Oklahoman sir! How dare you!

Journalistic integrity? I thought that went out the window when newspapers realized that unless more people started paying attention to them again the papers would likely go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Is it fair to say that Josh Rosen (from 16 to 17) was only worth 2 wins above his backup? In college?

Or that even though his team got worse (in your opinion) he didn't elevate the team around him?

No.

UCLA got worse every year.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Journalistic integrity? I thought that went out the window when newspapers realized that unless more people started paying attention to them again the papers would likely go the way of the dinosaurs.

lol... that's the world we live in now eh sir? Gone are the days of actually trusting the Cronkites of the world. Oh well. Still some good things too.

 

[BW52]

lol... that's the world we live in now eh sir? Gone are the days of actually trusting the Cronkites of the world. Oh well. Still some good things too.

Well whats the old saying ? "adapt or get passed by"

 

[PJ1]

I heard if the Cardinals give up on Rosen and move him it will be the quickest any team has given up on a top 10 QB pick in NFL history.

 

[BW52]

I heard if the Cardinals give up on Rosen and move him it will be the quickest any team has given up on a top 10 QB pick in NFL history.

That's bring to mind that if Rosen is so bad as some here seem to think then why would the Giants be rumored to want to trade for him?Makes no sense .Didn`t the Cards just hire a guy who sold the idea that he can improve Rosen.Giving up after 1 year would be foolish.Even that waste of space Nkemdiche has gotten 3 years to see if he can contribute.

 

[PJ1]

That's bring to mind that if Rosen is so bad as some here seem to think then why would the Giants be rumored to want to trade for him?Makes no sense .Didn`t the Cards just hire a guy who sold the idea that he can improve Rosen.Giving up after 1 year would be foolish.Even that waste of space Nkemdiche has gotten 3 years to see if he can contribute.

Agreed. And Chad Williams will break through any time now.

 

[scandalous_b]

You asked a question "Who said this"

I answered your question

As far as predictability, do you know the one stat from college that is the biggest predictor of success?

If you do, do you take stock in it?

Would you draft someone who is poor in that catagory?

If you answers were:

Yes
Yes
No

Congratulations, you just made a predictive model that will be correct more likely than not.

1. I didn't ask a question.

2. I have no idea what your predictive model outline has anything to do with this. It's not even a good outline.

You're out here citing PFF player forecasts as if they're fact. I am here to tell you that, while their model is probably better than a lot of things out there, it's still not something you should treat as the gospel. Using it as the main piece to defend your argument that Rosen sucks and will always suck doesn't exactly cut it for me.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

1. I didn't ask a question.

2. I have no idea what your predictive model outline has anything to do with this. It's not even a good outline.

You're out here citing PFF player forecasts as if they're fact. I am here to tell you that, while their model is probably better than a lot of things out there, it's still not something you should treat as the gospel. Using it as the main piece to defend your argument that Rosen sucks and will always suck doesn't exactly cut it for me.

Fail again

Go read post 1. Is that link a PFF link? Gasp it isn't...

When I literally put "www.pro-football-reference.com"

In my instruction to read some advanced stats.

Was that PFF?

Gasp it isn't...

You mean I went to multiple sources AND they all say Rosen was the worst QB in football last year?

Why this poor guy needs some help