Report: Suns engaged in trade talks for Dallas PG Dennis Smith Jr

[devilalum]

BTW, Booker is worse than Warren at #372 in Defensive Win Shares and 4th from last in Defensive Rating.

They simply need to stop being on the court together. This is why we are getting in these huge first quarter holes.

Booker and the Suns are more aware of this than we are. If the Suns are gonna win with defense something’s gotta change.


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[Mainstreet]

Another confirmation the Suns are not interested in Dennis Smith JR.

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[AzStevenCal]

BTW, Booker is worse than Warren at #372 in Defensive Win Shares and 4th from last in Defensive Rating.

They simply need to stop being on the court together. This is why we are getting in these huge first quarter holes.

At least with Booker we can hope that his injuries exacerbated his defensive issues. And unlike Warren, he rebounds well for his position and racks up numbers in other statistical categories too.

 

[slinslin]

BTW, Booker is worse than Warren at #372 in Defensive Win Shares and 4th from last in Defensive Rating.

They simply need to stop being on the court together. This is why we are getting in these huge first quarter holes.

You need to educate yourself more on these advanced stats before using them. Advanced defensive metrics are very dangerous to use and generally regarded as unreliable at best compared to offensive metrics.

A lot of defensive metrics are just a by-product of calculating offensive stats, often the result of overall stat - offensive stat and widely acknowledged as inaccurate. DBPM is an example of this.

For example Klay Thompson is a good defender but by mot advanced defensive metrics he is basically just as bad as Booker.
Having high or low defensive win shares does not necessarily make you a good or bad defender at all.

 

[slinslin]

Defensive Box PM = -1.7 Source: Basketball Reference.com

Defensive Win Shares League Ranking: #337 Source NBA.Com

Defensive Rating 5th from last Source Foxsports.com

DBPM is an almost useless stat.

It is just the by product of calculating OBPM and substracting it from overall BPM.

The better offensive player you are the harder it is to have a high DBPM.



from bbref:

Defensive BPM is simply overall BPM minus offensive BPM. The offensive BPM regression was tuned to minimize weighted squared error on both offensive and defensive RAPM simultaneously.

The defensive list is rather repetitive – apparently Ben Wallace was really good at playing defense? Defense is only partially captured by the box score, so elite defenders based on position and communication, like Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan, will not be properly represented. The regression mathematically accounts for that, pulling all of the estimates closer to average.

 

[slinslin]

At least with Booker we can hope that his injuries exacerbated his defensive issues. And unlike Warren, he rebounds well for his position and racks up numbers in other statistical categories too.

I'd agree, Warren to me is a candidate to "sell high". I think he is guilty of ball watching too much on defense and he is in his 5th year and has no vision for teammates when he is driving.

 

[sunsfan88]

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[Sunburn]

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Wow. Yucky.

 

[slinslin]

to be fair Dennis Smith has a true shooting percentage of about 54% this year which is slightly below league average.

Michael Carter William's TS% in his 2nd year was 46%..

 

[Rab]

I really don’t see any reason to trade for DSJ. I don’t see him as a serious upgrade to Melton at this point, especially defensively. I’ve seen quite a few of his games and nothing has ever jumped out at me outside of his athleticism. Why give up assets for him with the way the season has gone. I’m not a fan of giving up JJ and/or Warren depending on the package the Mavs are looking to ship. Maybe I’d think a little different if Oubre was locked up longer term. That would make them a little less painful to let go.

Prior to the season I was all for including Warren in a trade for a PG. This wasn’t because I didn’t like him as a player, but thought he had probably hit a ceiling. He’s been able to expand his game this year and you just don’t find production from guys on reasonable deals such as his.

For as much as JJ can frustrate me I just see what is potentially there and it keeps me intrigued. I don’t know what it will take to get him more consistent, but I’d rather hang onto him than trade him for DSJ.

This far into the year, unless there is a deal that comes about that you can’t turn down for a future PG, just keep playing Melton while hanging on to all assets and see what happens over the summer. DSJ just isn’t enough for me to be one to give up players for.


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[Proximo]

So Gambo just said the suns are not interested because he takes to many shots, and they are focused on a pg that will be the 4th or 5th option and be more of a distributor.

Ok, assuming that is true, why would they have any interest in Rozier or Russel?

Who would that mean they are interested in in free agency? Rubio?

So Smith called out sick from practice today. This is the Bledsoe situation all over again. He is going to be traded and cheap.

 

[1Sun]

So Gambo just said the suns are not interested because he takes to many shots, and they are focused on a pg that will be the 4th or 5th option and be more of a distributor.

Ok, assuming that is true, why would they have any interest in Rozier or Russel?

Who would that mean they are interested in in free agency? Rubio?

So Smith called out sick from practice today. This is the Bledsoe situation all over again. He is going to be traded and cheap.

They really need a PG who can be a third option behind Ayton and Booker, leaving the wings and/or an eventual 3DR (three point shooting, defense and rebounding) power forward to fill their roles and not do too much. Other than Warren, who is erratic and inefficient, scoring really isn't the mantra of any of our wings, not should ig have to be, as they (especially Jackson and Bridges) are more effective when they are not called upon to score a lot.

 

[SirStefan32]

So Gambo just said the suns are not interested because he takes to many shots, and they are focused on a pg that will be the 4th or 5th option and be more of a distributor.

Ok, assuming that is true, why would they have any interest in Rozier or Russel?

Who would that mean they are interested in in free agency? Rubio?

So Smith called out sick from practice today. This is the Bledsoe situation all over again. He is going to be traded and cheap.

My guess is that Igor wants Rubio. Two pending free agents from Indiana are the other two who fit. Tyus Jones too, probably.

 

[Chaplin]

There is absolutely NO question that Doncic's arrival has impacted DSJ this season. I remember last season liking DSJ a lot--he average 15/6 last season. This season has dropped because Doncic is a good ballhandler and runs the offense a lot.

A lot of people are complaining that he isn't a true "PG", but last season he handled the role just fine without another dynamic facilitator on the team.

I'm not really for getting him, BUT I don't believe he's as bad a fit as this year's stats show.

 

[sunsfan88]

There is absolutely NO question that Doncic's arrival has impacted DSJ this season. I remember last season liking DSJ a lot--he average 15/6 last season. This season has dropped because Doncic is a good ballhandler and runs the offense a lot.

A lot of people are complaining that he isn't a true "PG", but last season he handled the role just fine without another dynamic facilitator on the team.

I'm not really for getting him, BUT I don't believe he's as bad a fit as this year's stats show.

His stats last year showed that he is one of the worst shooters in the league as well, both FT % wise and 3pt % wise. His TS of 47% was horrific that year.

On a team like the Suns which needs 3pt shooting from the PG position, DSJ doesnt make much sense.

 

[Chaplin]

His stats last year showed that he is one of the worst shooters in the league as well, both FT % wise and 3pt % wise. His TS of 47% was horrific that year.

On a team like the Suns which needs 3pt shooting from the PG position, DSJ doesnt make much sense.

I don't get why you're so picky. We've been SCREAMING for a PG for a year and a half now. If he can run the offense, and there is some proof that he can, then he should be a possibility.

His shooting can be improved. He's young, he's cheap (for now), and he's a good fit athletically. And he has improved defensively over his year and a half in the league. Compared to other players, I'm not sure how much better you're going to get. Unless you are absolutely certain we can get one of the "star" point guards available in Free Agency.

Depends on the package, but DSJ is a risk I'd take.

 

[devilalum]

If Melton were allowed to shoot as many times a game as Smith would his stats be better?

During Summer League Melton had the green light and he put up some nice numbers.


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[1Sun]

If Melton were allowed to shoot as many times a game as Smith would his stats be better?

During Summer League Melton had the green light and he put up some nice numbers.


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My guess is they would be about the same. Neither is NBA starting point guard material, in my opinion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Melton were allowed to shoot as many times a game as Smith would his stats be better?

During Summer League Melton had the green light and he put up some nice numbers.


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I think no. And I like Melton. Far too often I see Melton get to the rack and clunk a drive hard off the backboard. I may be wrong but I think DSJ is a better finisher. All that said I’m still unsure whether I believe DSJ to be a big upgrade over Melton. On a team where we needed volume scoring I’d say yes, but I don’t think that’s what this team is destined to evolve into. I think we’ll likely have a big two in book and Ayton and then really even scoring throughout the rest of the lineup. I think we are a team that might longterm be a team that pins success on defense and Melton is more likely (imo) to become a standout there verses DSJ.

In the end, though a bit concerned about fit, I don’t hate DSJ and if the right deal presented itself I’d roll the dice.

 

[Mainstreet]

My guess is that Igor wants Rubio. Two pending free agents from Indiana are the other two who fit. Tyus Jones too, probably.

I'm hoping Igor has better taste in free agents this time around. The two point guards you mention should probably work as well as some lesser names.

 

[Russ Smith]

There is absolutely NO question that Doncic's arrival has impacted DSJ this season. I remember last season liking DSJ a lot--he average 15/6 last season. This season has dropped because Doncic is a good ballhandler and runs the offense a lot.

A lot of people are complaining that he isn't a true "PG", but last season he handled the role just fine without another dynamic facilitator on the team.

I'm not really for getting him, BUT I don't believe he's as bad a fit as this year's stats show.

he's a scorer more than a facilitator and he's a ball stopper. he's not a bad player but statistically he doesn't fit with Doncic. ESPN says( didn't fact check) they average just under 101 per 40 with him and Doncic together, just under 107 with doncic and Brunson together and about 112 with doncic and Barea together. His shooting is actually better this year I would submit because he's off the ball more so taking less bad shots off the dribble.

Great athlete just doesn't fit with Doncic.

 

[slinslin]

My guess is that Igor wants Rubio. Two pending free agents from Indiana are the other two who fit. Tyus Jones too, probably.

where was this weird Suns fans infatuation with Rubio born from?

For the right (CHEAP!!!)price I guess yeah but seems more likely to me that they target D'Angelo Russell.

Rubio regressed this season, he is still a terrible shooter. Rebounding and steals are all career lows. His PER is way below league average.

Tbh Rubio has been bad. Defense was his redeeming quality.

And the Suns need a bit more explosion from their PG. Rubio is too passive. A good PG has to be a threat at getting to the rim.

 

[SirStefan32]

where was this weird Suns fans infatuation with Rubio born from?

For the right (CHEAP!!!)price I guess yeah but seems more likely to me that they target D'Angelo Russell.

Rubio regressed this season, he is still a terrible shooter. Rebounding and steals are all career lows. His PER is way below league average.

Tbh Rubio has been bad. Defense was his redeeming quality.

And the Suns need a bit more explosion from their PG. Rubio is too passive.

Actually, I have never been a huge Rubio fan. I haven't gone to the search function to verify, but I don't remember being high on Rubio. As the matter of fact, I recall having disagreements with people about him. Look at the post that I was responding to- it was said that the Suns want someone who is OK being a fourth of fifth option, and being more interested in distributing. With Igor's history with Rubio, I think it's reasonable to consider that the Suns may be going after him in the summer. Also, the Suns do not need "explosion" from their PG. They need someone who can dribble, pass, create for others, bring the ball up the court, etc. They don't need a volume scorer.

All that said, Rubio's shooting is not awful. He is about 1.5% worse than last year, still shooting 34% from three. Assists numbers are better than last year, though his Utah numb ers have been lower than his Minni numbers. That's normal, as he is playing alongside a ball-dominant SG. He would be a fine point guard in Phoenix. My only fear is that the Suns are going to overpay him next summer.

 

[slinslin]

it is not about volume scoring, we need a PG who gets inside the paint, puts pressure on the defense. Draws fouls on big guys, simply can maneuver inside the paint and find Ayton in the paint too.
Someone who can play inside and out, penetrate and make the defense collapse to find an open shooter or to score himself or drop it off to Ayton.

I think that is the most glaring hole that our current PGs have. They put no pressure on the defense and Booker is not good at that either.

Imo one of the things that separates most of the good PGs from mediocre PGs.

I think on our roster Josh Jackson is the best at it but unfortunately a bad and weak finisher still.

Our ball movement on the perimeter is good enough imo.

 

[Mainstreet]

where was this weird Suns fans infatuation with Rubio born from?

For the right (CHEAP!!!)price I guess yeah but seems more likely to me that they target D'Angelo Russell.

Rubio regressed this season, he is still a terrible shooter. Rebounding and steals are all career lows. His PER is way below league average.

Tbh Rubio has been bad. Defense was his redeeming quality.

And the Suns need a bit more explosion from their PG. Rubio is too passive. A good PG has to be a threat at getting to the rim.

I think the reason Rubio gets included into the point guard conversation is because he will likely be more obtainable in the off season.

Any Suns fan would want the type point guard you describe in post #74.

The key is finding one without giving up the farm.