Clippers @ Suns 1-4-19

[1Sun]

I’m not going to agree with you that it’s all Koko’s fault but at this point it’s pretty hard to argue that he’s not part of the problem.


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I never said it was all his fault, just that he's a big part of the problem. Believe me; I am well aware of our gaping holes at the point guard and power forward positions.

I don't think jettisoning Igor solves our problems, but I don't think we can begin to solve our problems unless we jettison Igor.

 

[devilalum]

I never said it was all his fault, just that he's a big part of the problem. Believe me; I am well aware of our gaping holes at the point guard and power forward positions.

I don't think jettisoning Igor solves our problems, but I don't think we can begin to solve our problems unless we jettison Igor.

Yeah, there’s lots of blame to go around.

We all know the largest part goes to Mr. S.


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The one thing that gives me hope that they haven't tuned him out yet is that they are at least trying to play to the end of the game. Under Triano or Watson they probably would have lost some of these recent games by about 40+ points, but instead fought to the end. The first thing that needs to happen is they need to make a change or changes to the starting lineup to try and get out to better starts. Then continue the search for an at least solid point guard to add to the mix.

Yes I agree with this. I don’t think it’s a lack of desire or effort. I think it’s a lack of consistent effort. And stupidity. I believe we have a collection of relatively stupid players. I would chalk it up to youth but I see them constantly make the same mistakes over and over and over again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I just don't get it. They CAN defend, and they CAN score. We see it every damn game. Why can't they do those things in one of the quarters (usually first)? I get that they are young, I get that they need a point guard, but they are young and without a point guard in quarters and halves where they play well.

Lapses in effort and stupidity . . . and youth.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They don't need Jerry West or Doug Collins, or Larry Brown. They need a real NBA point guard and another player or two who can score a little bit.

They need someone who's actually qualified to a) find those players and b) actually entice them to come to what looks like a dumpster fire to the rest of the league. I don't think the James Jones/Sarver combo is equipped to do either one of those things.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i had Igor all wrong
it's not that, after a full workout the day before another 1st quarter blowout,
the Suns entered the game ill-prepared, unmotivated, and out-strategized.
-- and were embarrassed on their home court,
until the Suns' young go-getters, again, disrupted the opposing bench
once their team lost interest

it must be Igor's strategy.
something he's been working on for 17 years as an assistant to a variety of coaches.
watching. planning, for the day he could put his version of boxing's rope-a-dope into action
-- to lull the opponent into complacency. then strike

it just needs a little tweak
being down 20 to 30 points by half is apparently not enough

 

[leclerc]

Come on team. Next two weeks make sure Ayton has most or second most FGAs (and hopefully FTAs). And play some defense please.

 

[BC867]

What is wrong with putting pressure on booker and ayton?

As team leaders they should feel pressure.

They should be pissed off, it means they care, which is the first step in fixing any problem.

I am not worried at all about booker getting pissed. It’s going to make him better. Why do you assume he is a crybaby quitter. If he was a quitter he would have already quit.

I don’t care what the suns current record is, the talent is improving and booker sees that too.

Putting pressure on Booker the Shooting Guard is one thing. Taking the easy way out and spreading him too thin is something else.

Putting pressure on a rookie (even the #1 pick) from the start of the season is outrageous. Ayton is getting accustomed to playing Center against NBA pro's. He is getting accustomed to the rigors of an NBA schedule, that doesn't even allow for constant practice sessions.

He is getting accustomed to moving (back) to Center from Power Forward at UofA. And he is trying to learn the fine point of balancing tough defense and making fouls. It is a lot more difficult than it looks to us in the stands or in front of the TV.

The scourge of modern fans. Expecting instant gratification. Except for the very top superstars in NBA history (and even most of them took time), they weren't "leaders" from the get-go.

The Suns don't have an experienced leader in his prime. And that includes the GM and Head Coach positions. Nor a basketball mind among the owners, evidently.

Proximo, you've put your finger on the key word, "leaders". From top to bottom, the only one who is anywhere near filling that role is DBook, and he just turned 22 a couple of months ago. 'Nor the formula for success!

 

[1Sun]

Putting pressure on Booker the Shooting Guard is one thing. Taking the easy way out and spreading him too thin is something else.

Putting pressure on a rookie (even the #1 pick) from the start of the season is outrageous. Ayton is getting accustomed to playing Center against NBA pro's. He is getting accustomed to the rigors of an NBA schedule, that doesn't even allow for constant practice sessions.

He is getting accustomed to moving (back) to Center from Power Forward at UofA. And he is trying to learn the fine point of balancing tough defense and making fouls. It is a lot more difficult than it looks to us in the stands or in front of the TV.

The scourge of modern fans. Expecting instant gratification. Except for the very top superstars in NBA history (and even most of them took time), they weren't "leaders" from the get-go.

The Suns don't have an experienced leader in his prime. And that includes the GM and Head Coach positions. Nor a basketball mind among the owners, evidently.

Proximo, you've put your finger on the key word, "leaders". From top to bottom, the only one who is anywhere near filling that role is DBook, and he just turned 22 a couple of months ago. 'Nor the formula for success!

All the more reason that this team in particular desperately needs a head coach who can be such a leader. Igor has neither the capacity nor the temperament.

 

[BC867]

Okay THAT’S interesting. I don’t think any of us knew about that. And haven’t seen any reporting on it. I would say it’s nice to see some emotion out of him, but I don’t know enough about him to see this as a plus or minus, what it arose out of, or any trigger for more inspired play in the second half.

Games like last night do nothing to quell my haunting visions of Benoit Benjamin.

I'll repeat my opinion that, as a brand new rookie (especially with the pressure of being the #1 pick), Ayton is following the leadership of Devin Booker (himself only 22 years old).

Book has shown public signs of frustration. It is not a stretch to realize that Ayton has identified with that. How could he not?

Every time Book states disappointment in post-game interviews ... and uses the word "again" ... that is making a statement about management. Think about it!

Let's take this a step farther. Last season, it was tanking. Could it be that, being staffed and playing even worse as a team this season, maybe, just maybe, the players (as most of us) are waiting for the Suns to hit rock bottom (if they haven't already) and MAJOR housecleaning to begin?

Add to that the frustration that it has to begin with the putz at the top and there is no sign of that (except his threat to relocate, followed by damage control). Nothing but negatives.

I don't blame any of the players for their frustration. The Phoenix Titanics. It was not the passengers who hit the iceberg. All they could do was panic.

 

[1Sun]

I'll repeat my opinion that, as a brand new rookie (especially with the pressure of being the #1 pick), Ayton is following the leadership of Devin Booker (himself only 22 years old).

Book has shown public signs of frustration. It is not a stretch to realize that Ayton has identified with that. How could he not?

Every time Book states disappointment in post-game interviews ... and uses the word "again" ... that is making a statement about management. Think about it!

Let's take this a step farther. Last season, it was tanking. Could it be that, being staffed and playing even worse as a team this season, maybe, just maybe, the players (as most of us) are waiting for the Suns to hit rock bottom (if they haven't already) and MAJOR housecleaning to begin?

Add to that the frustration that it has to begin with the putz at the top and there is no sign of that (except a threat to relocate, followed by damage control). Nothing but negatives.

I don't blame any of the players for their frustration. The Phoenix Titanics. It was not the passengers who hit the iceberg. All they could do was panic.

I am thinking more and more that this is going to end with a very disgruntled Devin Booker being traded...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'll repeat my opinion that, as a brand new rookie (especially with the pressure of being the #1 pick), Ayton is following the leadership of Devin Booker (himself only 22 years old).

Book has shown public signs of frustration. It is not a stretch to realize that Ayton has identified with that. How could he not?

Every time Book states disappointment in post-game interviews ... and uses the word "again" ... that is making a statement about management. Think about it!

Let's take this a step farther. Last season, it was tanking. Could it be that, being staffed and playing even worse as a team this season, maybe, just maybe, the players (as most of us) are waiting for the Suns to hit rock bottom (if they haven't already) and MAJOR housecleaning to begin?

Add to that the frustration that it has to begin with the putz at the top and there is no sign of that (except his threat to relocate, followed by damage control). Nothing but negatives.

I don't blame any of the players for their frustration. The Phoenix Titanics. It was not the passengers who hit the iceberg. All they could do was panic.

I think you’re connecting a lot of dots that aren’t necessarily connected.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yes he is. He had a brief stretch where he looked like he'd turned the corner but it didn't last long. He's not as bad as Booker but he's still below average. And that's without considering that he doesn't rebound decently even for a small forward let alone the power forward spot he's been holding down. I've been a Warren supporter from the beginning but I'm tired of him now, if we can get decent value from him he's the first guy I'd trade.

I would trade Bridges over Warren because Bridges may actually have more trade value as he's younger plus he also doesn't have any skills on the offensive end. His shooting in college has not translated to the pros at all and can't do much of anything else either on that end. Excellent defender though.

 

[sunsfan88]

I just don't get it. They CAN defend, and they CAN score. We see it every damn game. Why can't they do those things in one of the quarters (usually first)? I get that they are young, I get that they need a point guard, but they are young and without a point guard in quarters and halves where they play well.

They haven't been the same since that OT loss to the Wizards. Played very well in the games leading to that one.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yeah, there’s lots of blame to go around.

We all know the largest part goes to Mr. S.


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By far.

 

[sunsfan88]

The whole team was out of it tonight. Ayton was visibly irate and pissed when he was taken out in the 2nd. Slamming his chair, slapping his hand on the floor. When the team came out during half to warm up, he came out of the locker room and sat on the bench till the 3rd was starting. He wasn't aggressive at all at any time during the game. He had several opportunities to shoot, drive, etc on offense and looked to pass instead. He needs to show aggressiveness when he has the ball. He's our most consistent scorer yet doesn't do anything but catch the ball at the top of the key, help sets a double screen and passes out. He hasn't been setting decent screens for numerous games this year as well. Halfway through the 4th qtr and you only have 1 foul? Hammer somebody if you can't block the shot. Make em earn that ****. Don't get me started on Jax. He was atrocious tonight as well.

This was posted on another forum by a fan who was at the game. Disappointing if true.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would trade Bridges over Warren because Bridges may actually have more trade value as he's younger plus he also doesn't have any skills on the offensive end. His shooting in college has not translated to the pros at all and can't do much of anything else either on that end. Excellent defender though.

I think that's about the worst decision we could make. He needs to fill out and add some strength so that he can handle the bigger and stronger NBA players and hit the longer NBA 3. But giving up on someone that can be a real difference maker defensively is pretty much the last thing we should do IMO. I'd trade anyone but Booker and Ayton before I'd consider moving Bridges.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think that's about the worst decision we could make. He needs to fill out and add some strength so that he can handle the bigger and stronger NBA players and hit the longer NBA 3. But giving up on someone that can be a real difference maker defensively is pretty much the last thing we should do IMO. I'd trade anyone but Booker and Ayton before I'd consider moving Bridges.

Defense is important but players who are all defense but zero offense don't have much value in the longrun. Guys like Tony Allen for example are extremely valuable but there's a reason he bounced around the league while there have been guys who play very little to no defense but are excellent offensively that play with one or two teams their whole careers.

Especially with the rules of today's NBA, defense only players just aren't valued as much as their counterparts.

I wouldn't dump Bridges or trade him for the sake of trading him either. It would have to be someone like Kemba Walker or something for me to consider it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Defense is important but players who are all defense but zero offense don't have much value in the longrun. Guys like Tony Allen for example are extremely valuable but there's a reason he bounced around the league while there have been guys who play very little to no defense but are excellent offensively that play with one or two teams their whole careers.

Especially with the rules of today's NBA, defense only players just aren't valued as much as their counterparts.

I wouldn't dump Bridges or trade him for the sake of trading him either. It would have to be someone like Kemba Walker or something for me to consider it.

I think he'll be a 15 point per game scorer in 2 years and one of the league's best all around defenders. He's not just a Tony Allen in the making. He's got a nice shot but he lacks NBA range. That's usually fixable as opposed to repairing a broken shot.

 

[SirStefan32]

I would trade Bridges over Warren because Bridges may actually have more trade value as he's younger plus he also doesn't have any skills on the offensive end. His shooting in college has not translated to the pros at all and can't do much of anything else either on that end. Excellent defender though.

Oh man, I disagree there big time. He is already one of the top wing defenders in the league. His shooting will be fine. He is shooting OK, and it will take him a little while to get used to the longer three-point line. His shot is solid though.

Outside of Booker and Ayton, he is at the top of my "DO NOT TRADE" list. With Booker and Ayton being the two future stars to build around, Suns cannot afford to trade any elite defenders.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Oh man, I disagree there big time. He is already one of the top wing defenders in the league. His shooting will be fine. He is shooting OK, and it will take him a little while to get used to the longer three-point line. His shot is solid though.

Outside of Booker and Ayton, he is at the top of my "DO NOT TRADE" list. With Booker and Ayton being the two future stars to build around, Suns cannot afford to trade any elite defenders.

Like you said, the fact that he is already one of the best perimeter defenders in the league is enough for me to not want to trade him. He is also doing that while being super skinny. I would imagine he will only get more effective at everything (defense and three point shooting included) simply by getting stronger.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think he'll be a 15 point per game scorer in 2 years and one of the league's best all around defenders. He's not just a Tony Allen in the making. He's got a nice shot but he lacks NBA range. That's usually fixable as opposed to repairing a broken shot.

He needs to get the hitch out of his shot in order for it work consistently with NBA range imo.

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[AzStevenCal]

He needs to get the hitch out of his shot in order for it work consistently with NBA range imo.

You mean the hitch in that video where he made something like 7 straight shots? I saw that video and the internet Suns fans freak out about it back in June I believe. And here is what Scott Bordow said about it several days later:

Also, I asked Mikal Bridges about that video from a week or so ago in which he seemed to have an extreme hitch in his shot. He said that wasn't his game shot, that he was shooting after a long, hard practice and not worried about how fast he was getting the shot up

 

[SirStefan32]

And he is already shooting 34% this year. It's not like he is a poor shooter. Tony Allen was a 28% three-point shooter for his career, and only attempted 0.5 threes per game. Bridges is already taking 3.8 threes per game and hitting 34%.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lapses in effort and stupidity . . . and youth.

Well, sure, I think the youth part goes a long ways towards explaining the lapses in effort and the stupid plays too. But some of it can be explained by these numbers - 1, 2, 10, 17. 1 GM gone from last season, 2 Head coaches gone from last season, 10 players on the roster today that weren't there last season and 17 players that spent time with us last season that are no longer with us. Continuity we ain't got.