Clippers @ Suns 1-4-19

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can’t believe I need to explain this.

Some people resist being taught, some outright refuse thinking they know better. Some people are just dumber than others and may be incapable of learning something or take much longer to learn.

As far as whether I blame Igor for their slow starts. Honestly I have no idea and neither do you because neither of us have any idea what is being said to the team.

But in general I will always put more blame on the players to motivate themselves because they are supposed to be professionals and quite frankly can cost themselves millions for not putting out full effort.

I mean, they were just quoted as saying they needed to come out as the aggressors and this is the filth they deliver? Good god I think I’m all out of any residual positivity and reasonableness. It’s taken years to wear me down from being a realist to just a flat out pissed off pessimist, but I guess I’m there.

I don’t see anything clever from Igor.

I don’t see booker ever ascending to a next level.

This far into the season for Ayton to get his lunch eaten and then shat upon by Gortat . . . GOR-freaking-TOT!?!

Melton and okobo are what they are, less talented 3-4 year projects.

Warren is soft. Physically and mentally.

Bridges would be great . . . on a team where he could settle into a complimentary role because he’s never going to be more than a 3 and D guy, not that I was expecting more than that. But he’s just wasted on this team and maybe not worth the two firsts we gave up for him.

JJ might just be MKG II.

We are going to overpay for oubre or just let him leave. Either way I doubt he’ll be a reason for our turnaround . . . that is scheduled for . . . never

Holmes is what he is. A wonderful backup. Got nothing negative for him.

Old man Crawford is a nice story. But that’s it.

Daniels can probably win a three point shooting contest.

I think I now hate this team. They had given a glimmer of hope. Not just with the four game winning streak, but playing close games. The current crap is just that, crap. Going down 20-30 points regularly ensures no matter how hard you claw back and how close you make it, it’s not going to be enough. The closer looking scores are just full of crap. It’s all friggin crap.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yes he is. He had a brief stretch where he looked like he'd turned the corner but it didn't last long. He's not as bad as Booker but he's still below average. And that's without considering that he doesn't rebound decently even for a small forward let alone the power forward spot he's been holding down. I've been a Warren supporter from the beginning but I'm tired of him now, if we can get decent value from him he's the first guy I'd trade.

He's one of the last I'd trade because he finally started to learn how to shoot 3s. If he puts in the work next summer to work on his defense like he did on his 3pt shot this past summer then I'll take that.

Especially considering he's on a very team friendly contract unlike guys like Booker for example who is about to be very overpaid.

 

[SirStefan32]

He's one of the last I'd trade because he finally started to learn how to shoot 3s. If he puts in the work next summer to work on his defense like he did on his 3pt shot this past summer then I'll take that.

Especially considering he's on a very team friendly contract unlike guys like Booker for example who is about to be very overpaid.

I like TJ a lot. His contract is outstanding. His three-point shooting has made him a very good NBA player. That said, I would have no issues trading him for a real point guard. He is not a good defender, he is a very poor rebounder, and he is easy to take out of the game for the opposing teams. If he is not scoring, he doesn't do anything. Right now, I question his fit next to no defense Booker and no defense Ayton. That's not his fault. If Ayton were a beast, TJ would be a good fit, but I am not sure how TJ fits next to two poor defenders.

Now, in all fairness, if the Suns got themselves a good point guard, the offense may be good enough to offset the defense. It is also worth pointing out that Warren is really the only consistent scorer outside of Booker and to some degree, Ayton. Unless they get a point guard who can score, Phoenix would miss TJ on offense.

Not saying I want to trade TJ, but if someone offered a legitimate point guard, I'd probably do it.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think there’s a difference between bad coaches and assistant coaches. Guys like Watson and Hunter were bad ones. Horny and Igor are assistants that don’t have the chutzpah to run a team. I feel kinda bad for Igor even though he’s not the guy going forward. He’s a lead assistant playing HC for the worst franchise in basketball.

 

[taz02]

The coach isn't the only problem but it's hard to argue he isn't part of it.

He doesn't seem to motivate guys. I believe it is absolutely the leaders job to motivate people under his leadership.

Positive line up changes are slow to be made or forced by the players he plays big minutes being traded, leaving him no choice.

Offense does not take advantage of Ayton. I'm no expert but his offense seems to be guard oriented and completely reliant and centered on the one position where we have no talent. Seems backwards to me.

Before the LA game he complained about three rookies in the starting five but hasn't change it. Maybe try Oubre for early energy or Holmes and Ayton on the floor together, at this point why not.

He seems like a deer in the headlights when opposing teams go on long runs. He doesn't seem to use time outs or make adjustments to stop long scoring runs.

I don't know, at this point anyone who points out a flaw with the players, coach or management is probably right.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Until the Suns management gets Koko a PG its going to be more of the same. Its like a football team without a quality QB. Im still hoping for the old and run down Dragic to lead this team for the next couple years. It would be night and day difference in everyones game. But, it will never happen so let them suck.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I mean, they were just quoted as saying they needed to come out as the aggressors and this is the filth they deliver? Good god I think I’m all out of any residual positivity and reasonableness. It’s taken years to wear me down from being a realist to just a flat out pissed off pessimist, but I guess I’m there.

I don’t see anything clever from Igor.

I don’t see booker ever ascending to a next level.

This far into the season for Ayton to get his lunch eaten and then shat upon by Gortat . . . GOR-freaking-TOT!?!

Melton and okobo are what they are, less talented 3-4 year projects.

Warren is soft. Physically and mentally.

Bridges would be great . . . on a team where he could settle into a complimentary role because he’s never going to be more than a 3 and D guy, not that I was expecting more than that. But he’s just wasted on this team and maybe not worth the two firsts we gave up for him.

JJ might just be MKG II.

We are going to overpay for oubre or just let him leave. Either way I doubt he’ll be a reason for our turnaround . . . that is scheduled for . . . never

Holmes is what he is. A wonderful backup. Got nothing negative for him.

Old man Crawford is a nice story. But that’s it.

Daniels can probably win a three point shooting contest.

I think I now hate this team. They had given a glimmer of hope. Not just with the four game winning streak, but playing close games. The current crap is just that, crap. Going down 20-30 points regularly ensures no matter how hard you claw back and how close you make it, it’s not going to be enough. The closer looking scores are just full of crap. It’s all friggin crap.

Okay I’ve calmed down from last night. But man is the-present infuriating.

 

[Bada0Bing]

Ayton looks like he doesn’t want to be out there.

Yeah, I'd like to know what was going on with him last night.

I was at the game. When he sub'd out in the 2nd quarter he kicked the chair, threw his warmup jacket on the floor, and appeared to drop some f-bombs or something.

Then when the team came out at halftime he sat on the bench while the rest of the team warmed up taking shots.

I was hoping he'd come out in the 2nd half and play with some heart and wreck somebody, but that definitely didn't happen.

I'm a patient guy, but this is getting ridiculous. There are guys in my 40+ league that play harder than him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, I'd like to know what was going on with him last night.

I was at the game. When he sub'd out in the 2nd quarter he kicked the chair, threw his warmup jacket on the floor, and appeared to drop some f-bombs or something.

Then when the team came out at halftime he sat on the bench while the rest of the team warmed up taking shots.

I was hoping he'd come out in the 2nd half and play with some heart and wreck somebody, but that definitely didn't happen.

I'm a patient guy, but this is getting ridiculous. There are guys in my 40+ league that play harder than him.

Okay THAT’S interesting. I don’t think any of us knew about that. And haven’t seen any reporting on it. I would say it’s nice to see some emotion out of him, but I don’t know enough about him to see this as a plus or minus, what it arose out of, or any trigger for more inspired play in the second half.

Games like last night do nothing to quell my haunting visions of Benoit Benjamin.

 

[Mainstreet]

Let's get Kokoskov a point guard and see where the team is when the season ends. I like the analogy the Suns are like a football team without a quarterback.

The Suns lack of consistent offensive production usually leads to a lot of easy shots for the opponent in transition and added scoring opportunities off rebounds. I think the team gets frustrated about the situation because at some point they know the other team is going to run away with the game.

The Suns need better scoring opportunities only a point guard can provide. They need a point guard and a physical presence like Harrell upfront.

My fear is the Suns have already tuned out Igor without a fair opportunity. It's like the Suns go to dinner without a spoon and fork.

 

[1Sun]

The coach isn't the only problem but it's hard to argue he isn't part of it.

He doesn't seem to motivate guys. I believe it is absolutely the leaders job to motivate people under his leadership.

Positive line up changes are slow to be made or forced by the players he plays big minutes being traded, leaving him no choice.

Offense does not take advantage of Ayton. I'm no expert but his offense seems to be guard oriented and completely reliant and centered on the one position where we have no talent. Seems backwards to me.

Before the LA game he complained about three rookies in the starting five but hasn't change it. Maybe try Oubre for early energy or Holmes and Ayton on the floor together, at this point why not.

He seems like a deer in the headlights when opposing teams go on long runs. He doesn't seem to use time outs or make adjustments to stop long scoring runs.

I don't know, at this point anyone who points out a flaw with the players, coach or management is probably right.

I couldn't possibly agree with this more.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Let's get Kokoskov a point guard and see where the team is when the season ends. I like the analogy the Suns are like a football team without a quarterback.

The Suns lack of consistent offensive production usually leads to a lot of easy shots for the opponent in transition and added scoring opportunities off rebounds. I think the team gets frustrated about the situation because at some point they know the other team is going to run away with the game.

The Suns need better scoring opportunities only a point guard can provide. They need a point guard and a physical presence like Harrell upfront.

My fear is the Suns have already tuned out Igor without a fair opportunity. It's like the Suns go to dinner without a spoon and fork.

The one thing that gives me hope that they haven't tuned him out yet is that they are at least trying to play to the end of the game. Under Triano or Watson they probably would have lost some of these recent games by about 40+ points, but instead fought to the end. The first thing that needs to happen is they need to make a change or changes to the starting lineup to try and get out to better starts. Then continue the search for an at least solid point guard to add to the mix.

 

[devilalum]

Ayton's a kid trying to learn arguably the toughest position on he floor under the worst possible conditions.

It's not one thing. It's all interconnected. The absence of a real GM, no PG, Booker playing out of position, Ayton not being properly taught, missing on draft picks, players giving up on the coach and/or a coach that is not NBA head coach ready. They watch tv. They know they're the laughing stock of the sports world.

This franchise needs innovative leadership to turn things around but unfortunately we're stuck with the most unimaginative owner in professional sports.

 

[Mainstreet]

The one thing that gives me hope that they haven't tuned him out yet is that they are at least trying to play to the end of the game. Under Triano or Watson they probably would have lost some of these recent games by about 40+ points, but instead fought to the end. The first thing that needs to happen is they need to make a change or changes to the starting lineup to try and get out to better starts. Then continue the search for an at least solid point guard to add to the mix.

A change to the starting lineup might help but unfortunately it doesn't solve the problem. However, at least it's a start.

I keep thinking there must be a G-League player out there somewhere who can pass the ball and run an offense.

I'd welcome Tyles Ulis back at this point. He has to be better than what the Suns currently have at point guard.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

A change to the starting lineup might help but unfortunately it doesn't solve the problem. However, at least it's a start.

I keep thinking there must be a G-League player out there somewhere who can pass the ball and run an offense.

I'd welcome Tyles Ulis back at this point. He has to be better than what the Suns currently have at point guard.

The one big issue there is that he makes an already horrible defense even worse than it already is. Though he might give us a better chance of competing by simply allowing us to hang with the other team from a scoring perspective, but I suspect he wouldn't make all that big of a difference on offense either.

 

[1Sun]

The one thing that gives me hope that they haven't tuned him out yet is that they are at least trying to play to the end of the game. Under Triano or Watson they probably would have lost some of these recent games by about 40+ points, but instead fought to the end. The first thing that needs to happen is they need to make a change or changes to the starting lineup to try and get out to better starts. Then continue the search for an at least solid point guard to add to the mix.

And yet Igor is doing absolutely nothing different with starting line-ups or at the beginning of games. Makes you wonder...

 

[Mainstreet]

The one big issue there is that he makes an already horrible defense even worse than it already is. Though he might give us a better chance of competing by simply allowing us to hang with the other team from a scoring perspective, but I suspect he wouldn't make all that big of a difference on offense either.

I'm only saying Ulis is probably better than what the Suns have now. It doesn't have to be him but the Suns need a floor general.

The Suns are bad on offense and defense. At least Ulis might help on the offensive end of the court. If the Suns get better shots, this would likely reduce rebounds and points in transition.

 

[SirStefan32]

I just don't get it. They CAN defend, and they CAN score. We see it every damn game. Why can't they do those things in one of the quarters (usually first)? I get that they are young, I get that they need a point guard, but they are young and without a point guard in quarters and halves where they play well.

 

[devilalum]

I'm only saying Ulis is probably better than what the Suns have now. It doesn't have to be him but the Suns need a floor general.

The Suns are bad on offense and defense. At least Ulis might help on the offensive end of the court. If the Suns get better shots, this would likely reduce rebounds and points in transition.

Calling Ulis a floor general makes me think of that little guy from the insurance commercials.

 

[Mainstreet]

Calling Ulis a floor general makes me think of that little guy from the insurance commercials.

Maybe. He seems to do quite well. LOL

 

[devilalum]

Maybe. He seems to do quite well. LOL

He's buddies with Shaq?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I just don't get it. They CAN defend, and they CAN score. We see it every damn game. Why can't they do those things in one of the quarters (usually first)? I get that they are young, I get that they need a point guard, but they are young and without a point guard in quarters and halves where they play well.

The point of getting a PG is to help them to be more consistent throughout the game. You also say that you get that they are young, but part of being a young team is that you will be inconsistent and that doesn't necessarily mean from play to play, but could mean from quarter to quarter, game to game or even a stretch of games to another stretch of games.

Adding a PG won't completely solve that inconsistency, but it should make it less glaring and last for shorter stretches. We will need to add at least another solid veteran (preferably a PF) as well if we want to truly become a team that consistently plays well. Even then we will have our highs and lows, but hopefully many more highs than lows.

 

[Mainstreet]

He's buddies with Shaq?

Yup. Shaq is the enforcer. LMAO.

 

[1Sun]

I just don't get it. They CAN defend, and they CAN score. We see it every damn game. Why can't they do those things in one of the quarters (usually first)? I get that they are young, I get that they need a point guard, but they are young and without a point guard in quarters and halves where they play well.

Which, of course, brings us back to coaching...

 

[devilalum]

Which, of course, brings us back to coaching...

I’m not going to agree with you that it’s all Koko’s fault but at this point it’s pretty hard to argue that he’s not part of the problem.


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