Justification - Wilks

Harry

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First it’s certainly true I can no longer keep my mouth shut. I posted my broom comment and was immediately chastised for not justifying it and just sniping. So here it is.

I’ve been getting emails all year for board members and outsiders asking one question, “How did this happen?” I think the blame is equally shared between Wilks & Keim.

Starting with Wilks, the mistakes are fundamental. Without even going through camp he decided (though denying it) that the previously successful defense would shift from a 3-4 to. 4-3. There were no starting LBs that fit that pattern. The interior DL definitely was better rotating fresh guys in the middle. I’m not certain if he and Keim were talking (maybe the lanes were too narrow) but there seems to have been no effort to acquire appropriate LBs. Reddick seemed to finally be understanding his responsibility by the end of 2017, now he had to learn a whole new set of responsibilities. Adaptation is clearly is not his strongest skill. The decision to play mostly zone meant Peterson wouldn’t be taking out the other team’s primary receivers. He made a big effort in run support but once again not playing to a player’s biggest strength. The other major defensive issues fall to Keim but this defense would have functioned much better by staying with a system that was working.

On offense Wilks almost immediately announced the Cards would focus on the run without having any idea if they could block well enough or how well DJ would rebound. The Cards had been a “go long” team setting up the run with the pass. They had signed an immobile, passing QB to run the offense. They had drafted the QBOTF but there seemed no plan in place to develop him. Again there is no question Keim contributed to this problem. In fact he made running any offense a thankless task. However not centering the passing game around Fitz made it clear to me that once Rosen came in he seemed to be calling the shots. He preferred Kirk. I’m paraphrasing but I’m reminded of what Warner said, It took me a while to learn when Fitz was single covered that meant he was open.” Rosen never understood that. He waited for receivers to come open rather than asking a Fitz to make a play. They also decided the running game would go up the middle. With a weak passing attack the opposition stacked the line and quickly wore down DJ. Changing a bad OC for a rookie OC only helped slightly. In the end, however, there was virtually zero creativity. There was no “hurry up” or gimmick play calling. The scripted plays at the beginnning seemed to work a little, but once the offense had to flow the playing calling was stale. After the OC was changed, DJ was used as a receiver a little more but with a gutted RB corp, with DJ split out, there was no threat at RB. The team drafted a FB but rarely used him as a lead block or in max protection. We were told about Rosen’s great accuracy, but it was felt max protection wouldn’t give him enough open options. The Cards did better with screens but rarely attempted to move the pocket to keep the rush off balance. This offense was too dated to fly.

It would have been hard for any coach to succeed with this roster. That said the Cards’ brass must decide if Wilks was part of the problem. Since he gave no indication of being part of the solution. For me the answer was Wilks didn’t do enough to justify retention. In fact he waited too long to take responsibility for his part in the collapse. The buck stopped there.
 

az jam

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Excellent analysis as usual Harry. I agree that both Keim and Wilks are accountable for this disaster. I'm just not sure what MB will do. Change is needed for sure.
 

TRW

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Harry,

How can you be chastised for no justification to do a clean sweep? Not just 3 wins "justify" it but the way this team has been historically BAD and INEPT does. It truly is a convergence of bad drafting, free agent signings of injury prone players thinking somehow they won't continue that trend here and downright abysmal coaching on both sides of the ball.

Some on this board are just contrarians who want to stir the pot.

Anyway, your "justification" is well stated.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Here are some bamboo tooth picks. People who want to retain Wilks or Keim can use them to shove under their finger nails since they seem to enjoy torture. But, wait, there is more, since bamboo under the fingers nails is just bad, if we need HISTORICALLY bad, then soak the bamboo in salt water first.

Only in this day and age can people see something this bad and want to put it in charge of things they care about for the sake of thinking they know better than everyone else, and everyTHING else including logic, facts, and reasoning.
 

TheCardFan

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It would have been hard for any coach to succeed with this roster. That said the Cards’ brass must decide if Wilks was part of the problem. Since he gave no indication of being part of the solution. For me the answer was Wilks didn’t do enough to justify retention. In fact he waited too long to take responsibility for his part in the collapse. The buck stopped there.

This is the best assessment of the situation.

The Atlanta game was the final nail in the coffin for me. Based on firing Wilks, you have to fire Keim as well.
 

THESMEL

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Michael made these decisions and is the decider and needs to make the right decision to sweep - dropping Sam, McCoy and only having lefwich to turn too is Wilks poor staff decisions or contacts - fact is this team is a lot less desirable coaching job then it was last year - and we were last on coaches list last year! Why? Had great core players on both sides of the ball,
 

kerouac9

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Bruce Arians and his staff won 8 games with a (potentially) worse group than this. The personnel is very bad right now, but it wasn't this bad in Week 1. I'm sure that's the argument that Keim will make at his performance review.
 

82CardsGrad

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Bruce Arians and his staff won 8 games with a (potentially) worse group than this. The personnel is very bad right now, but it wasn't this bad in Week 1. I'm sure that's the argument that Keim will make at his performance review.

Yea... But man, how many current starters will start for this team next year? Or how many would even start for any other team??
Certainly, with the exception of Cole, we currently don’t have one starting olineman who will start on this or any other team next year! [emoji15]
 

Arz101

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Wilks fired himself over the last two weeks. There is nothing Harry should explain. If anything, I would like Harry to come up with reasons for or against Keim. Since any new Head Coaching Candidate will not want to hitch their Wagons with a GM whose future is hanging by a thread.

Hope Cardinals don't get Wilked again in their search for a head coach.
 

kerouac9

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Yea... But man, how many current starters will start for this team next year? Or how many would even start for any other team??
Certainly, with the exception of Cole, we currently don’t have one starting olineman who will start on this or any other team next year! [emoji15]

Like, yesterday's starters? Let's say guys who you could imagine starting for a league-average-or better team:

O (4): D. Johnson, L. Fitzgerald, J. Rosen, J. Gresham
D (9): P. Peterson, C. Peters, C. Jones, B. Baker, A. Bethea, T. Boston, R. Gunter, M. Golden, B. Mayowa

There are a couple of guys who are probably starting too early, but you have to stick with; guys like Haason Reddick and Mason Cole.

People may squeal about Rosen being included above, but I think he could probably start and succeed with at least half the teams in the league, and he'd be an upgrade over the opening-day starter for teams like DAL, WAS, NYG, JAC, TB.
 

82CardsGrad

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Like, yesterday's starters? Let's say guys who you could imagine starting for a league-average-or better team:

O (4): D. Johnson, L. Fitzgerald, J. Rosen, J. Gresham
D (9): P. Peterson, C. Peters, C. Jones, B. Baker, A. Bethea, T. Boston, R. Gunter, M. Golden, B. Mayowa

There are a couple of guys who are probably starting too early, but you have to stick with; guys like Haason Reddick and Mason Cole.

People may squeal about Rosen being included above, but I think he could probably start and succeed with at least half the teams in the league, and he'd be an upgrade over the opening-day starter for teams like DAL, WAS, NYG, JAC, TB.

Gresham? Gunter? I think those two are stretches...

I totally agree with your view if Rosen, and note that you rightly didn’t list one olineman other than Cole...
 

Southpaw

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Yea... But man, how many current starters will start for this team next year? Or how many would even start for any other team??
Certainly, with the exception of Cole, we currently don’t have one starting olineman who will start on this or any other team next year! [emoji15]
and yet Veldheer and Massie are still in the NFL and starting for other teams.
 
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Like, yesterday's starters? Let's say guys who you could imagine starting for a league-average-or better team:

O (4): D. Johnson, L. Fitzgerald, J. Rosen, J. Gresham
D (9): P. Peterson, C. Peters, C. Jones, B. Baker, A. Bethea, T. Boston, R. Gunter, M. Golden, B. Mayowa

There are a couple of guys who are probably starting too early, but you have to stick with; guys like Haason Reddick and Mason Cole.

People may squeal about Rosen being included above, but I think he could probably start and succeed with at least half the teams in the league, and he'd be an upgrade over the opening-day starter for teams like DAL, WAS, NYG, JAC, TB.

I would think Christian Kirk would be a starter as well.
 

kerouac9

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Gresham? Gunter? I think those two are stretches...

I totally agree with your view if Rosen, and note that you rightly didn’t list one olineman other than Cole...

I don't know. There are a log of bad TEs in around the NFL. Seattle's starting TE is someone named Nick Vannett(?). Miami's starting TE is somone named Mike Gesicki. Those guys aren't good, and easily interchangeable with Gresham.
 

Arz101

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Cardinals are statistically (about to be) worse than 0-16 Browns in 2017. It is a festivus miracle Cardinals are not wondering about 0-16 season. Thank you Wilks.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Southpaw

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I don't know. There are a log of bad TEs in around the NFL. Seattle's starting TE is someone named Nick Vannett(?). Miami's starting TE is somone named Mike Gesicki. Those guys aren't good, and easily interchangeable with Gresham.

Vanett - Ohio State 2016
Gesicki - Penn State rookie

Gresham - Sucks U
 

Arz101

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Like, yesterday's starters? Let's say guys who you could imagine starting for a league-average-or better team:

O (4): D. Johnson, L. Fitzgerald, J. Rosen, J. Gresham
D (9): P. Peterson, C. Peters, C. Jones, B. Baker, A. Bethea, T. Boston, R. Gunter, M. Golden, B. Mayowa

There are a couple of guys who are probably starting too early, but you have to stick with; guys like Haason Reddick and Mason Cole.

People may squeal about Rosen being included above, but I think he could probably start and succeed with at least half the teams in the league, and he'd be an upgrade over the opening-day starter for teams like DAL, WAS, NYG, JAC, TB.

D-Buc is an average league starter in a 3-4 scheme too. Andy Lee is a Pro-Bowler starts on 20+ teams.
 

TheCardFan

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Like, yesterday's starters? Let's say guys who you could imagine starting for a league-average-or better team:

O (4): D. Johnson, L. Fitzgerald, J. Rosen, J. Gresham
D (9): P. Peterson, C. Peters, C. Jones, B. Baker, A. Bethea, T. Boston, R. Gunter, M. Golden, B. Mayowa

There are a couple of guys who are probably starting too early, but you have to stick with; guys like Haason Reddick and Mason Cole.

People may squeal about Rosen being included above, but I think he could probably start and succeed with at least half the teams in the league, and he'd be an upgrade over the opening-day starter for teams like DAL, WAS, NYG, JAC, TB.

Don't agree on Peters, Boston (street FA), Gunter, Mayowa, Rosen (at this point), and certainly not Gresham.

Another way to look at this is how many difference makers (stars) are on our team? I count 3 for sure (Peterson, Jones, and DJ). Baker is an up and comer and Fitz is past his prime.

Most successful teams have that difference maker at QB that elevates others...we don't have that yet.
 

kerouac9

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Don't agree on Peters, Boston (street FA), Gunter, Mayowa, Rosen (at this point), and certainly not Gresham.

Another way to look at this is how many difference makers (stars) are on our team? I count 3 for sure (Peterson, Jones, and DJ). Baker is an up and comer and Fitz is past his prime.

Most successful teams have that difference maker at QB that elevates others...we don't have that yet.

How many stars are on these teams:

Dallas
Seattle
Chicago
New England
Baltimore
 

football karma

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something I didn't realize:

Wilks was a DC for ONE season prior to becoming a head coach. Al Holcomb, the DC has never been a DC at any level prior to this year.

McCoy was far and away the most experienced of the HC, OC, DC trio -- and when he was fired -- his replacement was a guy who had one full season of NFL coaching -- as a QB coach -- under his belt became the OC.

this possibly explains the dynamic where the team looks pretty decent for a quarter -- and then.....

both OC and DC can diagnose film and with the benefit of study -- come up with way to attack. But -- neither has the experience to make the in game moves to adjust to what the opponent moves to
 

KYCardFan

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No the list is much shorter, lets deal in truth people

Offense: David Johnson (if utilized correctly, he is not an up the gut runner) and Larry Fitzgerald, a few others are back ups (Rosen, Kirk, Edmonds), the rest frankly should be out of the league.

Defense: C. Jones, B. Baker and P. Peterson (when interested, mostly coasted thru season), Peters, Reddick, Bethea and Boston are backups, the rest should be out of league.

So there are about 17 starters on this team, half should be back-ups and half should be out of league.

That is a recipe for 3-11 team, along with uninspired and unimaginative coaching and the General Manager has been awful in Free Agent signings.
 

Arz101

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No the list is much shorter, lets deal in truth people

Offense: David Johnson (if utilized correctly, he is not an up the gut runner) and Larry Fitzgerald, a few others are back ups (Rosen, Kirk, Edmonds), the rest frankly should be out of the league.

Defense: C. Jones, B. Baker and P. Peterson (when interested, mostly coasted thru season), Peters, Reddick, Bethea and Boston are backups, the rest should be out of league.

So there are about 17 starters on this team, half should be back-ups and half should be out of league.

That is a recipe for 3-11 team, along with uninspired and unimaginative coaching and the General Manager has been awful in Free Agent signings.

Does it ever occur to fans that P2 makes it look easy like Roger Federer?
 

Vacard

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something I didn't realize:

Wilks was a DC for ONE season prior to becoming a head coach. Al Holcomb, the DC has never been a DC at any level prior to this year.

McCoy was far and away the most experienced of the HC, OC, DC trio -- and when he was fired -- his replacement was a guy who had one full season of NFL coaching -- as a QB coach -- under his belt became the OC.

this possibly explains the dynamic where the team looks pretty decent for a quarter -- and then.....

both OC and DC can diagnose film and with the benefit of study -- come up with way to attack. But -- neither has the experience to make the in game moves to adjust to what the opponent moves to
Nagy was OC for ONE year in KC. Tomlin was DC for one year. McDerrmott was DC for Carolina for two years and look where’s he at.
 

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