The Great QB Conundrum

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
16,653
Reaction score
38,760
Location
Orlando, FL
I thought I’d start my week with my favorite big word. If solving this puzzle was as simple as picking out the most skilled QB we wouldn’t see so many early draft pick failures. I loved the Seattle yesterday’s game thread with the coach saying “we.” The guys posting are right, he blew it. Even the announcer got it right when he said with the game on the line you want the ball in the hands of your best player. O’Brien clearly doesn’t trust Watson. I’m not sure he fully trusts the RPO system. Most NFL coaches don’t or Tebow would have made it in the NFL (that should light the fires). So before the board picks the QB, we need to know who the coach will be. The QB must fit that style. I think many of the selection failures I mentioned were attempts at putting the square peg into the round hole. Many of those players never recovered. Palmer has been at his best with BA, because his skill set is perfect for the offense BA wants to run.

The next thing that needs to be decided first is how soon does this QB have to start. Injuries can screw up any plan, but assuming all goes well how patient will the team be with the next QB? I was not a big Aaron Rodgers fan coming out of college. I will always believe that a large part of his success derived from being matured instead of thrown to the wolves. We’ll never know, of course, but if he’d have gone early I believe being beaten up and surrounded by poor talent might have prevented him from becoming a great player. So, can the Cards be patient and sit a QB for a year or two? How much pressure will be exerted if the starter fails? If the Cards embark on a rebuild, the starter will likely struggle. What’s the plan?

Finally, what are the personnel priorities? If the O-line is not fixed and receivers aren’t acquired, what’s the chance of the drafted QB succeeding? You have to compare this year’s draft and free agents to next year’s to determine which moves to make when. All of these factors interact to make picking the right choice far more complicated than who do you like. This doesn’t make evaluating QBs simply an intellectual exercise. We should all keep evaluating. It just means the selection isn’t made in a vacuum.
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
13,517
Reaction score
6,657
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Cards need a qb to develop for sure. IMO need to draft one and probably best to sit out the first year as the Cards will be in a major rebuild after this season. Keim will be here but BA should retire. That will certainly impact the qb to go after.
 
OP
OP
Harry

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
16,653
Reaction score
38,760
Location
Orlando, FL
What about going after Drew Brees

I’m hearing Brees wants to stay in NO and they’re playing better. I think Rivers might be available, but how many picks will the Cards sacrifice?
 

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I still believe Jimmy Garoppolo is the best choice moving forward. Has the poise, quick release, accuracy and the feet to be very good. The Cardinals could find the right head coach for him and build the offense around Jimmy G and David Johnson.
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
13,517
Reaction score
6,657
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
I still believe Jimmy Garoppolo is the best choice moving forward. Has the poise, quick release, accuracy and the feet to be very good. The Cardinals could find the right head coach for him and build the offense around Jimmy G and David Johnson.

That is a good option. He might cost the Cards a couple of #1 picks but worth it.
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
17,054
Reaction score
19,102
I still believe Jimmy Garoppolo is the best choice moving forward. Has the poise, quick release, accuracy and the feet to be very good. The Cardinals could find the right head coach for him and build the offense around Jimmy G and David Johnson.

if you are going free agent QB -- I would rather have Cousins

sample size is wayyyy larger and the odds of getting a Kolb lower

Cousins is also a good deep ball, vertical passing game QB

that being said: i would much rather draft the guy and have him for 10 years
 

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I think if they let Palmer go they'll be all in on Cousins.

Cousins will likely stay in DC. But if not, SF is going to offer him a king's ransom---and he has the ties with Shanahan.
 

WisconsinCard

Herfin BIg Time
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Posts
17,240
Reaction score
10,847
Location
In A Cigar Bar Near You
if you are going free agent QB -- I would rather have Cousins

sample size is wayyyy larger and the odds of getting a Kolb lower

Cousins is also a good deep ball, vertical passing game QB

that being said: i would much rather draft the guy and have him for 10 years

I would take Cousins too, you figure it is going to be around the same money to sign either one of them.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
24,296
Reaction score
25,029
Location
Modesto, California
2 picks and 26-28mil a year for a guy with three starts??

No. JimmyG would be in a wheelchair within ten games playing here.


draft a guy..and use the cash savings to solidify the oline so we can actually maximize our investment at both QB and RB
 

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
2 picks and 26-28mil a year for a guy with three starts??

No. JimmyG would be in a wheelchair within ten games playing here.


draft a guy..and use the cash savings to solidify the oline so we can actually maximize our investment at both QB and RB

Who ever said $24-26M a year? Even JG's agent couldn't ask for that kind of money with a straight face. C'mon, man.

I would take JG over any of the top QBs in this year's draft class. Most of those QBs should stay in school as long as they can. They are nowhere near ready to play in the NFL, including Darnold, Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph, Allen, Falk. I think Mayfield's the most ready, but the Cardinals will have to change their offense if they draft him (which is fine with me). I think that Garoppolo is a better thrower than Mayfield and much better than you are giving him credit for.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
24,296
Reaction score
25,029
Location
Modesto, California
Who ever said $24-26M a year? Even JG's agent couldn't ask for that kind of money with a straight face. C'mon, man.

I would take JG over any of the top QBs in this year's draft class. Most of those QBs should stay in school as long as they can. They are nowhere near ready to play in the NFL, including Darnold, Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph, Allen, Falk. I think Mayfield's the most ready, but the Cardinals will have to change their offense if they draft him (which is fine with me). I think that Garoppolo is a better thrower than Mayfield and much better than you are giving him credit for.
look at the contracts young able QB's are signing... JimmyG will demand a contract similar to what Carr signed.
 

Cards_Campos

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Posts
5,596
Reaction score
2,390
38 year old Drew Brees? No thank you.
Well im saying if Larry plays 1 more year. You still can draft a QB. But Brees is still a top 5 QB. Good mentor too....it keeps our window open 1 or 2 more years.

For every Deshaun Watson. There is Ryan Leaf....Lemarcus Russell. So its a crap shoot. Carson Wentz is a lucky pick. No one thought he would be this Good. Same as Dac.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
24,296
Reaction score
25,029
Location
Modesto, California
Matt Stafford Lions $135,000,000 $27,000,000 $60,500,000 $12,100,000 44.8% 2023 UFA
Derek Carr Raiders $125,025,000 $25,005,000 $40,000,000 $8,000,000 32.0% 2023 UFA
Andrew Luck Colts $122,970,000 $24,594,000 $47,000,000 $9,400,000 38.2% 2022 UFA



JimmyG will expect to be paid just like these guys... young QB's who have performed well but not actually WON anything yet.... and if his agent doesnt go in expecting this kind of deal he needs a new agent.
 

SunCityCarl

Hall of Famer
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2002
Posts
1,392
Reaction score
25
Location
Peoria, AZ.
I dunno, I'm just a guy who stands & yells during third downs at University of Phoenix Stadium. But if you write an autobiography titled "The Quarterback Whisperer" as a fan my expectations go up a bit. Mike Zimmer in Minnesota has been through Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford & now Case Keenum at that position & continues to be fine. Is it O.C. Pat Shurmur (Son of Fritz R.I.P.) or QB coach Kevin Stefanski? Again I dunno...
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,888
Reaction score
9,804
Location
milan-italy
Matt Stafford Lions $135,000,000 $27,000,000 $60,500,000 $12,100,000 44.8% 2023 UFA
Derek Carr Raiders $125,025,000 $25,005,000 $40,000,000 $8,000,000 32.0% 2023 UFA
Andrew Luck Colts $122,970,000 $24,594,000 $47,000,000 $9,400,000 38.2% 2022 UFA



JimmyG will expect to be paid just like these guys... young QB's who have performed well but not actually WON anything yet.... and if his agent doesnt go in expecting this kind of deal he needs a new agent.

tell me why an agent could ask those type of money
last trades or free agents acquiring about back up quarterbacks were just bad choices
garappolo played 3 games....
kevin kolb
mike glennon
matt cassel
brock osweiller
brad hoyer
derek freaking anderson
sam bradford always injured and they got better with keanum
robert griffinIII
nick foles
and goes on
 

AZfaninMN

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Posts
8,109
Reaction score
6,565
Location
Minnesota
I dunno, I'm just a guy who stands & yells during third downs at University of Phoenix Stadium. But if you write an autobiography titled "The Quarterback Whisperer" as a fan my expectations go up a bit. Mike Zimmer in Minnesota has been through Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Bradford & now Case Keenum at that position & continues to be fine. Is it O.C. Pat Shurmur (Son of Fritz R.I.P.) or QB coach Kevin Stefanski? Again I dunno...
It all starts up front. Their line has been playing exceptionally well this year. Last year Bradford didn’t have time to scan the field and because of it they only had 6 pass plays of 20+ yards. This year they have a lot more(don’t remember the number now). All they talk about on the local radio stations is how their d can get to the qb, how their oline keeps a clean pocket for whoever is back there, and theilen and diggs ability to catch everything and run every route.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
24,296
Reaction score
25,029
Location
Modesto, California
tell me why an agent could ask those type of money
last trades or free agents acquiring about back up quarterbacks were just bad choices
garappolo played 3 games....
kevin kolb
mike glennon
matt cassel
brock osweiller
brad hoyer
derek freaking anderson
sam bradford always injured and they got better with keanum
robert griffinIII
nick foles
and goes on

because jimmyG is not considered a tier 2 free agent at this point.... we signed Kolb to a $64mil contract when we traded for him...and contracts keep getting bigger.
with the exception of being injured early on jimmyG is wartless at this point and in trades as well as contract negotiations will be billed as a franchise level signal caller. franchise level signal callers get over $25mil a year now.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
104,378
Reaction score
57,232
Cousins will likely stay in DC. But if not, SF is going to offer him a king's ransom---and he has the ties with Shanahan.


I think for him a big part of it will be personnel. He's in a horrible situation now the OL for Washington is decimated, their WR's suck, and he's having to do everything. To come back they're going to have to assure him they fix their OL and get Wr's. SF doesn't have a great OL or Wr's either but they do have Shanahan and Garcon now.

We have no OL and will likely lose Larry but we have a franchise RB to try and lure him.

There's an ESPN article out there that has an interesting idea that maybe Jacksonville would be the right place for him, talent in place, great young RB, and desperately need a QB.

For SF, as has been discussed a ton in the bay area, the 49ers will probably get a high enough pick to draft a QB so if they sign Cousins, what do they do trade down to get help, or are they better off taking a young QB and use the money reserved for Cousins to get help?
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
24,296
Reaction score
25,029
Location
Modesto, California
I think for him a big part of it will be personnel. He's in a horrible situation now the OL for Washington is decimated, their WR's suck, and he's having to do everything. To come back they're going to have to assure him they fix their OL and get Wr's. SF doesn't have a great OL or Wr's either but they do have Shanahan and Garcon now.

We have no OL and will likely lose Larry but we have a franchise RB to try and lure him.

There's an ESPN article out there that has an interesting idea that maybe Jacksonville would be the right place for him, talent in place, great young RB, and desperately need a QB.

For SF, as has been discussed a ton in the bay area, the 49ers will probably get a high enough pick to draft a QB so if they sign Cousins, what do they do trade down to get help, or are they better off taking a young QB and use the money reserved for Cousins to get help?
or they can sign cousins and either trade that top three pick or use it on a franchise level olineman?
 

daves

Keepin' it real!
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
4,418
Reaction score
11,027
Location
Orange County, CA
Matt Stafford Lions $135,000,000 $27,000,000 $60,500,000 $12,100,000 44.8% 2023 UFA
Derek Carr Raiders $125,025,000 $25,005,000 $40,000,000 $8,000,000 32.0% 2023 UFA
Andrew Luck Colts $122,970,000 $24,594,000 $47,000,000 $9,400,000 38.2% 2022 UFA

JimmyG will expect to be paid just like these guys... young QB's who have performed well but not actually WON anything yet.... and if his agent doesnt go in expecting this kind of deal he needs a new agent.

Stafford got his contract after starting 109 games, with passer ratings in the 90s his last two years and 8 of his career 25 4th quarter comebacks in 2016.

Derek Carr got his contract after starting 48 games, improving every year, culminating with a 12-3 record and 97 passer rating in his third year.

Luck got his contract after starting 55 games, with an 11-5 record in each of his first three years, improving every year to a 97 passer rating in his third year, before suffering through an injury-plagued 4th year.

Garoppolo has started 2 games and looked really good (in a system that once made Matt Cassel look really good!), before getting injured 3/4 of the way through the second game. Then Jacoby Brissett came in to replace him and looked almost as good.

Sure, contracts keep going up, but unless he plays ridiculously well in the final 8 games for the 49ers, i don't think any agent is going to get him into Carr territory. But i guess we shall see!

...dave
 
Top