Nothing much has happened yet

[AzStevenCal]

You do realize that Chucks team led the league in fouls and technical fouls on several occasions don't you? They had Bill Laimbeer on those teams. He was considered the hard foul king. Maybe the complaining did start with those teams but it clearly didn't work in Detroit's case.

You've got to be kidding me. Chuck's philosophy was to foul every player on every possession and wear the refs down. It absolutely worked for them. Chuck acknowledged he didn't have the talent to compete with the best of the league so he designed this system as an equalizer. The refs would look pretty silly fouling out the entire team in the first quarter so they were backed into a corner from which they could only call the occasional foul. This isn't rhetoric or hyperbole, it's history.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

You've got to be kidding me. Chuck's philosophy was to foul every player on every possession and wear the refs down. It absolutely worked for them. Chuck acknowledged he didn't have the talent to compete with the best of the league so he designed this system as an equalizer. The refs would look pretty silly fouling out the entire team in the first quarter so they were backed into a corner from which they could only call the occasional foul. This isn't rhetoric or hyperbole, it's history.

Steve

Maybe I misunderstood what your saying. Clearly the Pistons were called for a TON of fouls. I bet if I looked up the stats in one of my books, I would say they were in the top 10 in the league for players fouling out as well.

If your contention was that they mastered complaining. OK. If they led the league in fouls then clearly the complaining wasn't working. What they succeeded in doing was slowing the pace of the game, wearing teams down and plane beating them up into submission.

He was one of those coaches that believed in putting guys in from the bench to use their fouls. I remember in couple playoff games where he would pull a starter, put a bench guy in just to send a message then pull him out.

The fouls were called. The Refs didn't put away there whistles because of the complaining. Chuck was a master at using the fouls wisely.

The Rules clearly have changed with technicals and flagrents being stricter now. That style wouldn't work today and good ole Bill would have racked up a ton of flagrant fouls. However, if you look at the year that the league cracked down on complaining and talking back to the refs....some of those notoriously complainer type teams (cough Spurs)...still managed to play great defense without the complaining.

Hell I remember a playoff game or to under D'Antoni where the Suns were the whiniest team on the court. I am just saying whining about calls is not necessarily synonymous with defense. It's a culture thing across the NBA that the league has allowed.

I thought the year they cracked down on it was the best thing ever. It set a record for technical fouls being called. Then the league backed off which sent the message that the players run this league. Now things are back to normal and tons of players including some Suns complain and whine every single time a call is made.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hell I remember a playoff game or to under D'Antoni where the Suns were the whiniest team on the court. I am just saying whining about calls is not necessarily synonymous with defense. It's a culture thing across the NBA that the league has allowed.

I thought the year they cracked down on it was the best thing ever. It set a record for technical fouls being called. Then the league backed off which sent the message that the players run this league. Now things are back to normal and tons of players including some Suns complain and whine every single time a call is made.

We're not that far apart. Actually, I still think we're a fairly whiny team and it does us no good. We react emotionally to bad calls and frequently alienate the refs. The smart players work the refs without letting their emotions overrule their common sense. Having your fans trained to react to every 50/50 call has a positive effect also.

As for the Pistons, my point was they would foul 500 times in a game and get called for 40 of them, their opponent would foul 70 times a game and get called for 35 of them. Huge advantage to Detroit. BTW, I made up those numbers. Well, actually I used real numbers, they've been around for centuries.

 

[Covert Rain]

As for the Pistons, my point was they would foul 500 times in a game and get called for 40 of them, their opponent would foul 70 times a game and get called for 35 of them. Huge advantage to Detroit. BTW, I made up those numbers. Well, actually I used real numbers, they've been around for centuries.

Ah gotcha. You know I think teams that play great defense get the benefit of the doubt and that has more of an impact then complaining. If a person is a great defender and there is a call that could go either way, they won't blow the whistle. If your a finesse team like the Suns have been and make the identical play, it's a foul.

I think nothing influences the refs more then reputation.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Donald its nice of you to say but

A) I think if we put a gun to your head you would predict a sweep and

B) Its not the fact that we are down 2-0 that is disconcerting. Its the body language. The Suns came out in Game 1, were in awe of the bright lights and then subsequently punched in the mouth by a team that is a champion and knows what it takes. I don't even feel like the starters think they can win against these guys. And the bench just doesn't know any better.

And the thing that is killing me is we are not taking away ANYTHING from the Lakers. They need a layup they get a layup. They need a big 3 from some scrub who has been chained to the bench all year? Swish. Every single player is playing the best I have ever seen any of them individually play EVER, except for maybe Bynum and Kobe to a degree. Odom, Brown, Kobe, Artest, Gasol, Farmar, and Fisher are playing heady if not spectacular ball. Its absolutely the most frustrating thing to watch because every last guy is making shots. Every single one. Even in a gym shooting by yourself, you miss shots. Not the Lakers.

They have the best coach, best player, better big men, best defender, home court advantage and the pedigree. I cant believe I ever thought we had a chance when you look at it that way.

Suns will play tough in Game 3 and lose at the end. Game 4 will be a Laker blow out.

There needs to be some sort of coaching master stroke by Gentry for us to win a game and frankly I am not optimistic.

Screw them but they are DAMN good. Its not a coincidence they are going to their third consecutive Finals. We will look back and realize this decades Lakers are the 90's Bulls. There is just no context as yet.

 

[D-Dogg]

Donald its nice of you to say but

A) I think if we put a gun to your head you would predict a sweep

I think we split, and that it is highly likely. And I do think that if the Lakers win game three, it is likely going to be a sweep, especially if it is a blowout.

But I also know the Suns penchant for putting up shots at an accurate and alarming rate, and the Lakers can go to sleep at the wheel. It is entirely possible, not probable but definitely doable for the the Suns to tie this series up. They are going to have to figure out a way to stop the Lakers a bit though...and frankly will need the Lakers to come out looking past them. And I've seen the Lakers do stuff like that before. Suns are too dangerous for them to ease up.

 

[mojorizen7]

Ah gotcha. You know I think teams that play great defense get the benefit of the doubt and that has more of an impact then complaining. If a person is a great defender and there is a call that could go either way, they won't blow the whistle. If your a finesse team like the Suns have been and make the identical play, it's a foul.

I think nothing influences the refs more then reputation.

I've been a vocal subscriber to this theory since the late 80's early 90's.
Daly's PISTONS,Riley's KNICKS/HEAT,Pops' SPURS etc etc etc...

This is another reason why at some point our beloved SUNS need to commit to shedding this soft,finess label(not by using lipservice) but by the manner in which we draft,sign FA's,hire coaches,construct our roster's and most importantly...in the philosophy of our style of play that are put forth year after year.

The finesse basketball culture is who we are(reputation) and how we're going to be viewed,respected and yes....officiated.
For the love of God Kerr,stick to the plan and continue to try to change it. If he can do that, I believe that eventually we'll all be able to forget about
being 0-41.

 

[Chaz]

Before the series I said the Suns would need to continue to improve their level of play to beat the Lakers. So far they have regressed. The defense is just plain horrible.
I understand part of that is the skill of the Laker offense but when Gasol is allowed to go right to the front of the rim unencumbered and wait for a pass that is just ridiculous.

Then the Suns talk about missed shots. WHA???

Maybe we should concentrate on keeping them under 120 for once.

Holding them to their average score would be a major accomplishment at this point.

It doesn't matter who is in the Finals. I will never root for the Lakers.

 

[az240zz]

You do realize that Chucks team led the league in fouls and technical fouls on several occasions don't you? They had Bill Laimbeer on those teams. He was considered the hard foul king. Maybe the complaining did start with those teams but it clearly didn't work in Detroit's case.

Amare should be locked in a room and watch Laimbeer and do the same to Gasol

 

[TheHopToad]

That cuts me to the core, man. Really? You want those uberduouchbags to win another title? Damn.

It's not that I really want the Celts to win another one, it has more to do with I can't bring myself to root for the Lakers. It's kinda like if the 49ers beat the Cardinals in the playoffs....they are a division rival and the enemy. Can't root for them. I'd root for Belichick and the Pats to get another ring over the Niners as the lesser of two evils, although that is certainly a lose-lose scenario.

Seriously? Giving up already? Im not giving up on the Suns until the last whistle is blown buddy.

It's not really giving up and much as looking at it from a realistic point of view. The Lakers are a better team. The Suns have nothing to be ashamed of, they've had an OUTSTANDING season and exceeded everyone's expectations. They are playing with house money, but remember, the house has the advangtage and over the long haul, you're not going to beat the house...

I put more effort into defending Kwame than he put on the court.

And to think he was a #1 overall pick. Hopefully the Wizards can't screw up this one.

I've seen some #1 busts in my time, but Kwame Brown "takes the cake".

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not that I really want the Celts to win another one, it has more to do with I can't bring myself to root for the Lakers. It's kinda like if the 49ers beat the Cardinals in the playoffs....they are a division rival and the enemy. Can't root for them. I'd root for Belichick and the Pats to get another ring over the Niners as the lesser of two evils, although that is certainly a lose-lose scenario.

I hate the Lakers and nothing will ever change that and I absolutely do not want to see them win another title. However, I think this current crop of Celtics might be the most dislikable group the NBA world has seen. If Marbury were still on the roster it would just cement that for me. If we lose I'll stop following this year's playoffs but put a gun to my head to make me choose and I'd rather cheer for the Lakers. I'd just pretend Luke Walton and Pau Gasol make this team go.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

please note^^this guy is a **********

I'll repeat my plea to you, as I did to another worthless loser Ode to Ocho, who was also quickly banned.

I just can't imagine my life being so boring that I actually take the time to create an account, and troll over at another team board. I really feel sad for people like you.

Get outside, take a walk, read a book, shoot some hoops, create some positive human interaction. I think it'll help you feel like less of a loser.

 

[82CardsGrad]

DUUUUDE....YOUR SOOOOO ****ING COOOLL...CAN YOU PLEASE TEACH ME TO BE COOOL LIKE YOU???

ARE YOU GIVING LESSONS I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN HOW TO HAVE A SUCCESSFUL LIFE LIKE YOU....

LET ME GUESS YOU WAKE UP EVERY MORNING AND GO TO YOUR DEAD END JOB HATING LIFE BECAUSE YOUR WIFE WONT TOUCH YOUR LITTLE 4 INCH DICK........

YOUR KIDS HATE YOU BECAUSE YOUR FAT AND YOU NEVER REALLY GREW UP IN A GOOD HOME...

YOUR A PHOENIX FAN....SO THATS JUST ADDING ON TO BAD THINGS ABOUT YOU.....THE PAST COUPLE YEARS YOU MUST REALLY BE DEPRESSED WITH THE WAY YOUR TEAM ENDS THEIR SEASONS....

DONT WORRY...YOUR OFFSEASON WILL START AGAIN SOON...AND KOBE WILL HAVE A FULL HAND OF RINGS....

PHIL JACKSON IS GOING TO HAVE 2 HANDS OF A RINGS AND A PINKY TOE RING.....

GO CRY YOURSELF TO SLEEP ********

You're

:BIM:

 

[elindholm]

Congratulations, Steve, you just became #77 on my Ignore list.

 

[Bufalay]

What are the odds that Steve's last name is Nash?

 

[elindholm]

What are the odds that Steve's last name is Nash?

A lot of people would tell you that it's 50/50, because either it is or it isn't, and those are the two options.

 

[D-Dogg]

Reminder: Nothing much has still happened yet. However, I was hoping and expecting a split. Now I will have to be a bundle of nerves for Game 5.

Exactly my biggest worry hit here...the Suns had sustained runs and rode the crowd energy. Puts the Lakers back on the pressure side to hold home court.

The ONLY thing I'm truly upset about right now is wasting two sensational games by Kobe. Lakers bench should show up better at home, and the Suns bench should grip more.

Lakers should win game 5, and I don't want to hear Suns fans complain when the refs aren't as kind to the Suns next go-around. You got way more than your fair share of calls tonight. I was cracking up at times thinking what some of the more ref-complaining fans would have thought had the shoe been on the other foot. I had no problem in Game 3 with the free throws and such, but tonights refs were very much riding the emotion of the home crowd. Lakers fought through it well enough, but it was pretty transparent.

Also transparent, the way the Suns as a team were going after Fish...interesting to say the least. We'll see if it pays divendends down the line in the series, but it wasn't very hidden.

Good home stand, Suns fans.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Be worried Donald. This is shaping up like the Suns/Lakers 2006 or the Cavs/Celtics 2010 where one team has the best player but the team that ends up winning has the four or five next best.

 

[mojorizen7]

Reminder:
Momentum is a bitch.....kinda like Derek Fisher.

On a more serious note,momentum is a bitch.
Tee hee.

 

[tobiazz]

The officiating was definitely bizarre and ended up favoring the Suns in the end.

 

[D-Dogg]

Home court is a bitch.

And it isn't like you destroyed us in these two games, either. Both games, we were within striking distance late. All you can ask playing a hot home team like the Suns.

Be careful though before whipping 'em out for a measuring contest just yet...replicate that in Staples to earn the series, or prepare to defend your home court again with your backs against the wall.

I never understood why people thought this wouldn't be a great series...two very different teams with mismatches on both sides.

 

[GorrilaLips]

Home court is a bitch.

And it isn't like you destroyed us in these two games, either. Both games, we were within striking distance late. All you can ask playing a hot home team like the Suns.

Be careful though before whipping 'em out for a measuring contest just yet...replicate that in Staples to earn the series, or prepare to defend your home court again with your backs against the wall.

Agreed. That's exactly what happened in game 3 in phx, a must win. Suns have been clicking in game 3 and it seems to be working pretty good right now.

I never understood why people thought this wouldn't be a great series...two very different teams with mismatches on both sides.

To be honest, you and some others being the exception...you have over inflated cocky arrogant attitudes of a Lakers vs. Celtics bull crap. How about stamping out those pesky suns first.

I was reading somewhere on the lakersforum regarding...wasting Kobe playing the suns instead now, they will be icing his knees during the finals.

 

[Chaplin]

Home court is a bitch.

And it isn't like you destroyed us in these two games, either. Both games, we were within striking distance late. All you can ask playing a hot home team like the Suns.

Be careful though before whipping 'em out for a measuring contest just yet...replicate that in Staples to earn the series, or prepare to defend your home court again with your backs against the wall.

I never understood why people thought this wouldn't be a great series...two very different teams with mismatches on both sides.

Sorry to say, but we played horribly in game 3 and won. We played a lot better in this game, but that was just our bench, we had no stand-out players in this game like Amare's 42 (or Kobe's 35).

What surprises me the most is how effective our zone is. They couldn't solve it the entire game. THE. ENTIRE. GAME. That to me is the incredible thing. Then they switched it up late in the 3rd quarter, playing essentially a 2-2 zone with the 5th man sticking to Kobe wherever he went. I don't think I've ever seen that before at the professional level.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What surprises me the most is how effective our zone is. They couldn't solve it the entire game. THE. ENTIRE. GAME. That to me is the incredible thing. Then they switched it up late in the 3rd quarter, playing essentially a 2-2 zone with the 5th man sticking to Kobe wherever he went. I don't think I've ever seen that before at the professional level.

The Lakers kind of solved it, they were getting shots. They just don't have good shooters at the four (Odom) or the three (Artest) and you need good shooters to bust a zone.

 

[Bufalay]

Sorry to say, but we played horribly in game 3 and won. We played a lot better in this game, but that was just our bench, we had no stand-out players in this game like Amare's 42 (or Kobe's 35).

What surprises me the most is how effective our zone is. They couldn't solve it the entire game. THE. ENTIRE. GAME. That to me is the incredible thing. Then they switched it up late in the 3rd quarter, playing essentially a 2-2 zone with the 5th man sticking to Kobe wherever he went. I don't think I've ever seen that before at the professional level.

It looked like they solved it when Kobe made 100 shots in a row.