2006 Cardinals: Is Dennis Green a Fraud?

[Mitch]

Could it be that Dennis Green, prior to coming to Arizona, was one of the luckiest NFL head coaches...lucky that he had 3 All-Pro WRs to throw to in Cris Carter, Jake Reed and Randy Moss (how lucky was it to have Moss fall into his lap in the draft when other teams were shying off)...with 3 WRs of that ilk, did it really matter who his QB was? And is it any coincidence that the musical chairs Green played at QB all worked out because of the 3 WRs?

Was it lucky that Green had a 3 WR offense when other teams were less prepared to defend the 3 WR sets?

Was it lucky that he played in a very weak division?...only the Packers back then had decent teams thanks to Bret Favre...but the Lions and Bears were dreadful back then year after year...which meant 4 easy wins and an allowance to only have to play .500 in the other games to easily make the playoffs at 10-6.

Do you find it interesting that Green vaunted Viking teams struggled mightily in the playoffs?...and none of those hearlded Viking teams made it to the Super Bowl despite home field advantages and impressive regular season records.

Did Green get lucky and look real good having coordinators like Billick and Dungee calling the plays and schemes?

Green does have an uncanny knack for having excellent players fall to his spot in the draft (which is why Denny is loathe to trade up in drafts). How lucky was it for Green that Matt Leinart slid to #10? That fortune in itself may allow Green the opportunity to remain the Cardinal head coach despite doing the bare minimum on the field to warrant a return as head coach...a 12-27 record to date...8-22 since his notorious benching of Josh McCown in the Detroit hotel lobby the night before a game, following two straight wins...

Leinart will make any coach look smart...because Leinart does the things at the QB position that are very hard to teach...and because all his coaches in the past have prepared him to thrive at the highest levels.

Imagine what the future of this team would look like without Leinart? It wouls still be 1-5...Kurt Warner probably would have been pummeled into submission by the Bears and John Navarre (who Denny remains faithful to) would be the QB. The offensive line is still the NFL's worst run blocking line, Edgerrin James is a non-factor because of the line, but still would be demanding his 30 carries a game...and with Fitzy out teams can double team Q.

No matter how ell the defense plays, a Leinart-less Cardinals would have little to no chance of winning.

Getting back to Green's credibility...here are some questions:

1. How does a coach release a Pro Bowl player on the eve of training camp and not have a plan to replace him? Even worse how can a coach stand by and watch the most atrocious offensive line play in the NFL and make only marginal moves to fix it? ...with $10M remaining on the salary cap, no less?

2. How does a coach come in promising a Top 5 offense and immediate playoff prospects and not come close in three years and still maintain the faith of the players and the organization?

3. How does a coach keep talking about his "system" and yet does anyone in Arizona really know after three years what his so-called "system" is? And furthermore, if Denny had such a command of his own system, why can't he take control of the play-calling?...especially at a time when the team is begging for answers and leadership...

4. How can a coach fire an offensive line coach near the beginning of his first season and replace him with a recently released player who has never coached a day in his life? Not only that...how can the coach bring the novice back as line coach the next year?

5. How can a coach sit back and watch his special teams give up back breaking turnovers and TD returns, year after year?

6. How can a coach whose team is behind by 14 points with 5 minutes left in a game NOT go into a hurry-up offense? Even worse, how about behind by 10?

7. How can a coach sit back and watch his teams jump off-sides and pick up inexcusable penalties time and time and time again?

8. How can a coach opt to rush a field goal unit onto the field for a beat the clock 53 yard field goal when there was plenty of time to spike the ball and set up the field goal properly?

9. How can a coach who is supposed to be an expert talent evaluator not see how poor the team is and has been at certain positions?...and such key positions as the o-line.

10. How can a coach put the fortunes of the team in the hands of an immobile, injury-prone QB who won 2 games for the team the year before and couldn't stay healthy for at least the first half of the year? And...even better, how can a coach trust enough in this QB at his age to sign him to a three year deal?

11. How can a coach with the worst offensive line in the league do little to fix it and then sign an All Pro running back? Wasn't this a recipe for disaster? Doesn't this show a total misunderstanding of how to build a winning football team? And didn't this do everything imaginable to further reveal the team's Achilles heel, the offensive line...by putting the spotlight on the line to miraculously start generating a running game?...and thus make the franchise a further laughing stock around the league...it would be akin to signing Peyton Manning and watch him get sacked 10 times a game, thus giving him NO chance to succeed.

12. How can a coach not even know in the Carolina game last year (a game the team could and should have won) that Carolina changed their pass coverage in the second half from soft zone to man-to-man...when the coach states to the media, "We had trouble against their soft zone in the second half."

13. How can a coach whose star WRs are getting pressed at the l.o.s. by Seahawk defenders in an all-out man-to-man coverage watch his team take three quarters to come to the realization the middle is wide open and that the Hawks' #3 CB can't cover BJ and the OLB can't cover the TE in space?

14. How can a coach prepare to play Marcus Vick and not elect to play contain with the DEs? That is, until, Vick has run the ball for 58 yards on the first three attempts.

15. How can a coach punt the ball on a 4th and 22, down 10 points with no timeouts left and 2:42 left in the game?

When the coach quits on games...what do the players learn?

16. How can a coach make his offensive coordinator the scapegoat for an embarrassing loss in front of $40,000,000 viewers? Even worse, how can a coach hang a loyal employee out to dry, when the loyal employee was not fully responsible for calling the plays that were so scrutinized by the media and even Charles Barkley during and after the game?

Yet...this same coach may get lucky again...if Matt Leinart takes control of this team and the team feeds off of Leinart's poise, moxie and mystique, it may start winning ballgames on its own.

Dennis Green is a salesman...he came into town with pie charts as ostentatious proof of his success in the business...he immediately started talking Top 5 offense and playoffs, why? Was this his own hubris talking? Was this his sales pitch to increase the attendance at games? Was he planting a seed for success with the players? Well whatever this pitch was, it has been rendered moot time and time again, through a series of major coaching gaffes, that quite frankly only a scam artist could get away with.

These were my Cardinals and your Cardinals long before this pompous, pretentious coach set foot in Tempe. I want a coach who will treat people with respect, first and foremost. I want a coach who will take and shoulder the blame when he has erred. I want a hands-on coach who will actually talk to players on the sidelines...and do his best to keep them jacked and focused. I want a coach who brings a special talent to the art of game planning...I want to be pleasantly suprised every now and then...maybe even by running back a punt to win a game on our own for once...or maybe throwing the ball on third and inches...

The one incident as much as any other that sums up Dennis Green to me? Last year in Mexico City when Josh McCown tried to mix it up and share a brief celebration with Dennis Green on the sidelines following a great TD drive...and Dennis Green just walked away from McCown as if he wanted no part of it...this may seem silly to you, but to me it says it all...Green is all about Green and no one else. He's above it all: the players, the coaches, the media...even the owners he has expressed his dissatisfaction with...in fact, he would fire them all if he had to, just as long as someone else is to blame.

 

[CaptTurbo]

:Yawn:

Anyone noticed those bashing Green the most are the same people that would have been happy to be 3-13 with Mac at the helm for 50 years?

 

[JeffGollin]

2006 Cardinals: Is Dennis Green a Fraud?
No.

 

[vince56]

2006 Cardinals: Is Dennis Green a Fraud?
No.

exactly. Worst thread ever.

Walter, this is pathetic. You're better than this.

 

[Mitch]

:Yawn:

Anyone noticed those bashing Green the most are the same people that would have been happy to be 3-13 with Mac at the helm for 50 years?

Let's hear your rebuttal. How about it? Enlighten us as to all the reasons why Green is the man and the right coach. Go ahead. Don't be cowardly...don't just sit there and take a cheap shot...try putting yourself out on a limb for once.

For the record, I was one of the first to suggest that Mac was in over his head. Get your facts straight.

 

[Mitch]

2006 Cardinals: Is Dennis Green a Fraud?
No.

Let's hear why, Jeff.

 

[Mitch]

exactly. Worst thread ever.

Walter, this is pathetic. You're better than this.

Let's hear it Vince. Rebuttal?

See this is the problem...why are you at such a loss for words? Lay it out there for us! Go ahead.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Let's hear it Vince. Rebuttal?

See this is the problem...why are you at such a loss for words? Lay it out there for us! Go ahead.

Mitch, in politics, it isn't always what you say it is how you say it. People have rebutted you a hundred different times before. That isnt the issue. The issue is your constant whining about DG is soooo old, tiresome, and frequent that everyone who reads becomes instantly naseous.

Get a new schtick so people will actually respond to you.

 

[BigRedFan]

I somewhat agree with the original poster. I dont think there is much of a future with Green. Nothing has improved from his first year except the "talent level". How long do you wait for improvement? The offensive line, if anything has gotten worse, if thats possible. The defense, while good at times, has yet to show consistency. The team has shown to be poorly coached as seen by excessive penalties, poor clock management and poor playcalling. Green doesnt admit to mistakes and makes a lot of stupid statements as well that makes one wonder about his judgment. As for the talent level, other than Fitzgerald and Leinhart which were nobrainers, the rest havent shown much. While better than the Mac days, I dont expect much more out of the Cardinals in the future than a 9-7 record, barely making the playoffs, and making an early exit. On the other hand, I think with a new coach, a rehaul of the offensive line, and a few tweaks on defense, I think the Cardinals could be a solid playoff team. On the positive side, needless to say, the drafting of a franchise QB was monumental and gives us hope for the next decade.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, in politics, it isn't always what you say it is how you say it. People have rebutted you a hundred different times before. That isnt the issue. The issue is your constant whining about DG is soooo old, tiresome, and frequent that everyone who reads becomes instantly naseous.

Get a new schtick so people will actually respond to you.

Honestly, LV, I haven't read one rebuttal and defense of Green that was even in the slightest bit persuasive.

The only thing posters keep referring to is the talent he's brought in. Even I don't question that, except with regard to the offensive line, his coich to play a slower than average player at FS and his choice to keep John Navarre as the #3 QB.

What difference does it make what the talent is, if the coach continues to find ways to watch his team self-destruct?

The Rowen incident has had me fuming for several days now. And, like many others, I have questioned Rowen's inexperience as an OC and I was one of the more dubious posters when Rowen was first hired...for me that has nothing to do, however, with the way in which this situation was handled. I think it's a disgrace to make him the scapegoat...and I would have been equally incenced if Gary Zauner was fired instead (one certainly can make the argument that special teams more than anything else have contributed to the last two losses)...

And, honestly, LV, if I was seeing smart coaching decisions from the sidelines on a regular basis, or even on a more frequent basis than what we have been seeing, I wouldn't be so skeptical about Green's abilities as a head coach.

 

[seesred]

No...Luck is something that is there when you have great preperattion for it.

GBR
40

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Honestly, LV, I haven't read one rebuttal and defense of Green that was even in the slightest bit persuasive.

The only thing posters keep referring to is the talent he's brought in. Even I don't question that, except with regard to the offensive line, his coich to play a slower than average player at FS and his choice to keep John Navarre as the #3 QB.

What difference does it make what the talent is, if the coach continues to find ways to watch his team self-destruct?

The Rowen incident has had me fuming for several days now. And, like many others, I have questioned Rowen's inexperience as an OC and I was one of the more dubious posters when Rowen was first hired...for me that has nothing to do, however, with the way in which this situation was handled. I think it's a disgrace to make him the scapegoat...and I would have been equally incenced if Gary Zauner was fired instead (one certainly can make the argument that special teams more than anything else have contributed to the last two losses)...

And, honestly, LV, if I was seeing smart coaching decisions from the sidelines on a regular basis, or even on a more frequent basis than what we have been seeing, I wouldn't be so skeptical about Green's abilities as a head coach.

Well for the record, not that it makes much difference to you, but I have started to see that DG is not right for the Cardinals. But unlike you, I dont find it a personal afront. I think regardless of what happens with the Cards, you would have hated DG either way. Win or Lose.

Regardless, my point wasnt that your post was wrong, just that you might want to mix in a few points about how DG can turn it around, or what can be done, as oppossed to the constant needling.

Oh and I hear you always say you pimped Weiss as the HC prior to DG. Weiss is the flavor of the month now, but all I read about him prior to NE winning its first superbowl was how he was conservative, un imaginative, and lack the foresight to ever be a great OC....

 

[Mitch]

No...Luck is something that is there when you have great preperattion for it.

GBR
40

You are probably right...but, Billick has already won a Super Bowl and Dungee is knocking on the door...which might suggest that they had much to do with Minnesota's success under Green.

 

[SuperSpck]

Could it be that Dennis Green, prior to coming to Arizona, was one of the luckiest NFL head coaches...lucky that he had 3 All-Pro WRs to throw to in Cris Carter, Jake Reed and Randy Moss (how lucky was it to have Moss fall into his lap in the draft when other teams were shying off)...with 3 WRs of that ilk, did it really matter who his QB was? And is it any coincidence that the musical chairs Green played at QB all worked out because of the 3 WRs?

Was it lucky that Green had a 3 WR offense when other teams were less prepared to defend the 3 WR sets?

Was it lucky that he played in a very weak division?...only the Packers back then had decent teams thanks to Bret Favre...but the Lions and Bears were dreadful back then year after year...which meant 4 easy wins and an allowance to only have to play .500 in the other games to easily make the playoffs at 10-6.

Do you find it interesting that Green vaunted Viking teams struggled mightily in the playoffs?...and none of those hearlded Viking teams made it to the Super Bowl despite home field advantages and impressive regular season records.

Did Green get lucky and look real good having coordinators like Billick and Dungee calling the plays and schemes?

Could be, but unless we invent a machine that will allow us to take Green out of the HC job at Minnesota (here in MN? *shiver*) and place, say, Coach Mac in his spot, then unfreeze said machine and let the One Heartbeat Vikings roll... well, it's an impossible question to answer.

Getting back to Green's credibility...here are some questions:

1. How does a coach release a Pro Bowl player on the eve of training camp and not have a plan to replace him? Even worse how can a coach stand by and watch the most atrocious offensive line play in the NFL and make only marginal moves to fix it? ...with $10M remaining on the salary cap, no less?

This is a Pete Kendall thing right? I'm 100% on board with you in agreeing that the way the offensive line has been handled during Green's tenure has been beyond terrible but at this point I'm reluctant to say that bringing Kendall back or replacing him with someone with equal talent would be what could save this line.

Mildly improve? Well, as the saying goes, if you're in the cellar there is no way to go but up, but if I recall correctly the line was filled with unfufilled promise and potential before Green got here. Lots of cash tied up in product not equal to value on the playing field.

11. How can a coach with the worst offensive line in the league do little to fix it and then sign an All Pro running back? Wasn't this a recipe for disaster? Doesn't this show a total misunderstanding of how to build a winning football team? And didn't this do everything imaginable to further reveal the team's Achilles heel, the offensive line...by putting the spotlight on the line to miraculously start generating a running game?...and thus make the franchise a further laughing stock around the league...it would be akin to signing Peyton Manning and watch him get sacked 10 times a game, thus giving him NO chance to succeed.

Provided the Cardinals ever put together a combination of personel and technique that match then we'll just have another skilled player to work with.

14. How can a coach prepare to play Marcus Vick and not elect to play contain with the DEs? That is, until, Vick has run the ball for 58 yards on the first three attempts.

Micheal, or Mike. Marcus is a Dolphin last I heard.

These were my Cardinals and your Cardinals long before this pompous, pretentious coach set foot in Tempe. I want a coach who will treat people with respect, first and foremost. I want a coach who will take and shoulder the blame when he has erred. I want a hands-on coach who will actually talk to players on the sidelines...and do his best to keep them jacked and focused. I want a coach who brings a special talent to the art of game planning...I want to be pleasantly suprised every now and then...maybe even by running back a punt to win a game on our own for once...or maybe throwing the ball on third and inches...

Who's provided the Cardinals with the deepest amount of physical talent they've ever had.

Life's full of give-and-take and right now I want a bunch of the best players we, as fans, can get out there because I hated (Hated. Deserving the Capital) the Dline the Cardinals had just a few years ago and an overweight overpaid underachieving Oline. The game starts in the trenches and they lost as much as they are losing now.

Green leaves a lot to be desired on gameday, once again, I agree with you on this, but the team is closer than it has been in a long LONG time to turning any corner worth turning.

If there is a better HC canidate out there willing (<-- key word) to come to AZ and try to work the Cardinals out of the same funk they've been in since arriving (and even predating AZ) then by all means do it, but stick with it, through highs and lows because things do not change overnight and rarely overseason (look at the vaunted Bengals who are attempting suicide by wrapsheet, they've been dangerous for two years and are teetering as of today).

I agree with what you say but this is what we have for now. Let's just see where the ride takes us for 10 more games.

 

[Cardiac]

Mitch,

You have a very long post that has the word "lucky" in it several times. At some point one has to consider that NO ONE is that lucky. Change the word lucky to accomplished or produced or etc.....I think you get the idea.

Now maybe he did get lucky a couple of times but at some point even you have to give him some credit, right?

 

[Mitch]

Well for the record, not that it makes much difference to you, but I have started to see that DG is not right for the Cardinals. But unlike you, I dont find it a personal afront. I think regardless of what happens with the Cards, you would have hated DG either way. Win or Lose.

Regardless, my point wasnt that your post was wrong, just that you might want to mix in a few points about how DG can turn it around, or what can be done, as oppossed to the constant needling.

Oh and I hear you always say you pimped Weiss as the HC prior to DG. Weiss is the flavor of the month now, but all I read about him prior to NE winning its first superbowl was how he was conservative, un imaginative, and lack the foresight to ever be a great OC....

LV...I don't know where you ever heard of Weis being conservative and unimaginative. I live three minutes from Gilette Stadium and read the Globe and Herald every day...and at one point during the first Super Bowl run, Weis called 18 pass plays in a row to start a game, a game the Pats won easily as an underdog going into the game.

The reason why I wanted Weis is that he brings a special talent and knowledge to the position. We'd be watching wrinkles game after game and innovative strategies...which today, I believe, makes winners out of losers because the players start believing that they have the edge.

I can't help but take what happens to the Cardinals personally...they have been my team since I first saw them at Yankee Stadium as a 7 year old in 1963. The integrity of the organization means a lot to me. The loss on Monday night, I can accept. It was one of the toughest losses to swallow, ever. But, all I have been hearing and seeing since are people talking about the Cardinals for once...even though they lost, they captured people's imagination. I was excited about that...at least...until Green axed Rowen and made Rowen the scapegoat, which I find unconscionable. Many of you don't (even Jeff Golin, whom I have often felt is the voice of reason around here) and that's where we differ.

Fault me if I am wrong, but I care about Rowen's feelings and I care about his future as a coach. I thought he was too inexperienced to fare well as OC, at least for now...but I also know that having Edgerrin James to cater to was going to be an albatross around Rowen's neck this season due to the fact that little was done to fix the line. For Rowen to take the fall on this one when the Cardinals are in the national spotlight is downright irresponsible.

The timing is the issue...and what it suggests...and who it is supposed to take the blame off of. Yeah, I take that personally, because it hurts.

 

[Rats]

I am not going to rebutt your statements Walter. The only thing in the NFL that matters is Wins and losses. We have lost more than we won the last 3 seasons and that is undeniable. What also is undeniable is that the constant in this equation is not the Head Coach or the coaching staff. The Ownership allows the team to be short handed year after year. 3 seasons DG has been at the helm. He has taken what was the worst Pro team ever assembled and remade it into a competitive group that can stay on the field with the likes of the 06 Bears. He has been handcuffed in the amount he has to offer his staff so he has to hire no name guys and hope they are up to the task. Clancy seems to have been. His OC have not been. Lets not fool ourselves. The rebuild was a monumental task that could not have been accomplished in 1 or 2 seasons. You can't fix everything in one season when ownership refuses to spend to the cap. Had we done that all three years we would have had the extra lineman and maybe never had to try and sign an aging Edge. JJ may have done the job at Rb. We will never know because as Duckjake likes to say...This team constantly shoots itself in the foot....and the Bidwills are the ones who pull the trigger.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Let's hear why, Jeff.

To argue the point, he'd first have to accept your premise.

He doesn't... nor do I...

(As a football guru, Mitch... you are a fine English teacher.)

 

[RonF]

I don't have any experience playing or coaching in football, but as a fan, I can tell a winning coach from a losing coach and Dennis is not a winner. IMHO, he sold Bidwill a promise he couldn't keep, he can't take us to the playoffs. Some of you don't care for Mitch's opinions our how he expresses it, but he's much closer to the truth than the thinking Dennis Green is the answer to the playoffs. He has no administrative skills that I can see and he lacks leadership in the field. But like all the other years, I have to wait until Bidwill gets tired of him and hope the next guy they bring in will do better. So go the Cards.

 

[CardsRep03]

Keep Green for these reasons:

1. Talent level is way up because of Green. He can evaluate talent hands down.

2. This is a team that couldn NOT score in the first half of games let alone the first quarter. This team has looked damn near unstoppable in the first half of games. This team's current problem is HOLDING LEADS! That's right I said leads!

3. Any Cardinals team over the last 10 years would have completely folded against the Bears and maybe not scored a single point and probably blown out by 40 points or more. All of the games thus far this year have been close games except the Falcons game.

I've told people all PRESEASON we weren't quite there yet. (They all wanted to make big bets on Cardinals game versus the team they root for: Denver, Rams, Cowboys, Bears) I made a few of them but really wanted to wait to see real games and how our offensive line would perform. I knew we would finally get an answer on whether it was the line's problem or the running back's problem in not being able to run the ball. We all now know the answer.

I wasn't exactly sure if Loney could fix the line, though I'll admit, I thought he could. This has been Green's biggest failure in his tenure here. I didn't really like the way he handled Kendall but I think he was trying to send a message as to who was running the show. It is true, it's Green's way or the highway, but Green's roads have been paved with a lot of golden wins so it's hard to argue with his methods.

Bidwill didn't help when he shut down his checkbook after the Edge signing, either. It's hard to determine how much help for the line could have been brought in with that last remaining cap money. To Bidwill's credit he did bring in Milford Brown and get rookie Deuce Litui and they should prove to be beneficial in building the talent level similar to the way the defensive line has built up it's talent over the last few years. But it has been proven they weren't enough. This is hardly Dennis Green's fault.

Green needs two things in order to be successful for years to come: A good offensive line and bring in a TOP Offensive Coordinator.

 

[joeshmo]

First I will say that I dont like Green as a coach any more. I believe the game has passed him by and his theories/schemes are no longer of use in todays NFL. But I will also say that I dont think any head coach can succeed with this ownership, but some can and will do better then others. With that I want a new head coach at seasons end as well.

But there are some items in this thread I have issues with.

First before I get to the questions you asked below I will talk about all the stuff you wrote before those questions. You seemed to talk a lot about luck in the first half of your post. Everything good that happened to Green was "luck" in your eyes. The man still had to pick those players, he still had to pick those coaches, he still had to take those chances on players and coaches no other teams or a lot of others teams wouldnt take a chance on. He still had to make those choices, Luck or not it happened for 10 years in Minny. Even if it was luck a famous person once said I would rather be lucky then good.

Really this whole Luck thing can be used for any head coach ever. It just isnt a good arguement IMO.

His coaching picks and players he picked were his choices, period. But the flip side is that the game management in the playoffs were also his choices.

1. How does a coach release a Pro Bowl player on the eve of training camp and not have a plan to replace him? Even worse how can a coach stand by and watch the most atrocious offensive line play in the NFL and make only marginal moves to fix it? ...with $10M remaining on the salary cap, no less?

PK is and never will be a pro bowl player. So nice use of over exaggeration to make a point. PK was a mouth and locker room lawyer, Seattle tried getting rid of him via trades before his last year of his contract becuase of his locker room cancerous ways, and made little to no effort to re-sign him. So we werent the only team to not like the guy or have issues with him. But Seattle made the correct move that we did not make. They still kept him for a year instead of just dropping him without having a replacement. So getting rid of him I dont have a fault with, I didnt want the guy here in the first place, but not having a viable replacement I do fault the team for.

As for the 10 Mill remaining in cap space, How is that Greens fault. He is not the one that spends the money, he is not the one that turns off the money. Green had many more players on his wish list that were scheduled for visits only to have canceled becuase ownership turned the money tree off. That isnt a Coach issue that is a ownership issue. To say otherwise is disingenuous and a clear use of deflection to make a point in your favor.

2. How does a coach come in promising a Top 5 offense and immediate playoff prospects and not come close in three years and still maintain the faith of the players and the organization?

This I agree with

How does a coach keep talking about his "system" and yet does anyone in Arizona really know after three years what his so-called "system" is? And furthermore, if Denny had such a command of his own system, why can't he take control of the play-calling?...especially at a time when the team is begging for answers and leadership...

This I agree with.

How can a coach fire an offensive line coach near the beginning of his first season and replace him with a recently released player who has never coached a day in his life? Not only that...how can the coach bring the novice back as line coach the next year?

Although I believe without question that Green is and still is handcuffed when making assistant coaching choices, I will say that there were better OL coaches to be had then Lindsay at similar low rates. So in a round about way I do agree.

5. How can a coach sit back and watch his special teams give up back breaking turnovers and TD returns, year after year?

This I dont fault Green for. He has brought in so called special team demons for Special teams purposes only in the past and still is doing the same thing. For all the Hank Milligans, Fransicos, Shipps, AO, Morrows, and plenty of other players that you yourself have called special teams dynamo's and it still doesnt work. He has changed to respectable Special teams coach as well. The biggest problem is that we dont spend to the cap or even close to it which means a lack of depth, and a lack of depth usually is the first thing that hurts the special teams.

How can a coach whose team is behind by 14 points with 5 minutes left in a game NOT go into a hurry-up offense? Even worse, how about behind by 10?

How can a coach opt to rush a field goal unit onto the field for a beat the clock 53 yard field goal when there was plenty of time to spike the ball and set up the field goal properly?

I dont like his in game choices either. He is not a game management guru to say the least.

7. How can a coach sit back and watch his teams jump off-sides and pick up inexcusable penalties time and time and time again?

It is called discipline and I dont think he has it with this team or knows how to get it.

How can a coach who is supposed to be an expert talent evaluator not see how poor the team is and has been at certain positions?...and such key positions as the o-line.

Again I think he is handcuffed by the ownerships money issues. He has wanted to bring in other players but wasnt allowed to. But I will say this, for all the kudos he got for picking the Blackstocks, Browns, and Mitchells of the drafts I think they are highly suspect picks as I believe all of them will turn into absolute nothings in the NFL. I dont think he drafts picks are nearly as good as some say they are.

How can a coach put the fortunes of the team in the hands of an immobile, injury-prone QB who won 2 games for the team the year before and couldn't stay healthy for at least the first half of the year? And...even better, how can a coach trust enough in this QB at his age to sign him to a three year deal?

First the 3 year deal is no big deal. Low risk and just look at the cap we still have left. Also I dont think Green had a choice. Unless you think Collins, Brooks or the 3rd string in Detriot McCown a choice. He did pick Matt who I think he would have started earlier if Matt was in camp on time. So on this question I will not fault him on.

How can a coach with the worst offensive line in the league do little to fix it and then sign an All Pro running back? Wasn't this a recipe for disaster? Doesn't this show a total misunderstanding of how to build a winning football team? And didn't this do everything imaginable to further reveal the team's Achilles heel, the offensive line...by putting the spotlight on the line to miraculously start generating a running game?...and thus make the franchise a further laughing stock around the league...it would be akin to signing Peyton Manning and watch him get sacked 10 times a game, thus giving him NO chance to succeed.

This I agree with. Although I think once again he is handcuffed by what players he can bring in and how much he can pay them, I do think he has completely put to much faith in the likes of Step, misjudged Ross, and misjudged Wells, and the rest of the OL skill set.

How can a coach make his offensive coordinator the scapegoat for an embarrassing loss in front of $40,000,000 viewers? Even worse, how can a coach hang a loyal employee out to dry, when the loyal employee was not fully responsible for calling the plays that were so scrutinized by the media and even Charles Barkley during and after the game?

assitant coaches are made scapegoats every singel day in the NFL. It happens all the time even by the greatest coaches in history and coaches today. It is just the business and the way things are done. People were calling for him to be fired 2-3 weeks before it even happened. People are making way to big a deal of this scapegoat thing when every single assitant coach that is fired is a scapegoat.

But I do find the reports of it being Green who was calling the plays disturbing.

I am tired now, So I will sum it up.

Once again I dont like Green the head coach either. But I did find some things I took issue with.

 

[Mitch]

Joe: Thanks for the in-depth response. You are right that Green's success in Minnesota had much to do with his decisions there...he did hire the right people and he did bring in some good players.

As for Kendall, he was named the Pro Bowl the year before the Cardinals signed him as a free agent.

Kendall helped lead the Jets to the playoffs and was great in their locker room...Curtis Martin, to this day, credits Kendall for the rejuvenation of the Jets' running game.

Kendall was a fiery leader for us on the field. He left it all out there. We have not had a leader on the line since.

The reality is: the Cardinals have had three years to find an interior lineman (G or C) who could hold Kendall's jock..and none of the one's Green has chosen to replace him with have been even remotely close in ability or production.

Another reality: cutting Kendall to prove that its Green's way or the highway...well, that hasn't reaped any significant effects on the fortunes of the organization, has it? We were losing then and we are still losing three years later.

What about Drew Brees? I would be willing to bet you that if the Cardinals were the first to woo Brees, he would have signed here. He would have picked Arizona over New Orleans, especially with our WRs.

At that time, we had no idea that Matt Leinart was going to slide to Arizona at #10, so it seems like a blessing that it's worked out this way. May I use the word lucky here?

As for the offensive line...for starters, everyone but stubborn Denny knows that LD is a monster at guard. The first move should have been to slide him there and then sign a free agent tackle...the team signs Milford Brown to play RG...now it needs two tackles...many of us were clamoring for the Cardinals to make a strong push to sign UFA Jon Runyan...then they could have taken one of the top tackles in the 2nd round: Charles Spencer, Jeremy Trueblood, Daryn Colledge, Andrew Whitworth were all available at #41...and T Ryan O'Callaghan, the Pats' rookie starting RT, was taken in the 5th round.

That's just one plan...others could have happened.

While I often agree with you...I think you may be a little lenient here in deeming Green's failure to hire coaches and build an offensive line as manifestations of being handcuffed by the Bidwills.

 

[phillycard]

Mitch c'mon man. I will give you that his game adjustments and planning haven't been stellar lately, but to be honest you can say that about nearly every coach who has had success, only to fail later? Is Joe Gibbs an idiot, Vermeil, Gruden? Damn that, people are starting to question Andy Reid here! These same clowns seem to have forgotten the Kotite era. I'm all for us making a change if this season goes nowhere, but not because I think Green's a fraud, it's just that he couldn't get it done here. He's still a good coach in my book.

 

[nidan]

Keep it civil folks.

Argue with the posts not the person

 

[red desert]

Mitch, in politics, it isn't always what you say it is how you say it. People have rebutted you a hundred different times before. That isnt the issue. The issue is your constant whining about DG is soooo old, tiresome, and frequent that everyone who reads becomes instantly naseous.

Get a new schtick so people will actually respond to you.

Politics has nothing to do with this topic. And you of all people are one to talk about tiresome constant whining. That's your M.O., dude.

Mitch is right on with this thread. Every single point is on the money. Please, someone defend Green? And not with that tiresome whining response of, "you just hate Dennis Green and it's obvious from your post."

Here the deal, Mitch. While Leinart may (GULP) save Green's job for yet another year, Leinart will call him out his stupidity. Just wait and see.

Great post, Mitch. You the man.