Your top five NBA players....(whatever the criteria)

[Arizona's Finest]

Ok starting to get into the slow part of the summer so before I begin to focus my attention on the 2005 NFC WEST CHAMPION Arizona Cardinals, I would love to have a round table on the five best players in the NBA and the criteria you have for these players.

I’ll start with my criteria first:



-Rings take precedence (but you have to combine being the 1st or 2nd option with those rings)

-playoff production is next (further you go better it is)

-I then like accomplishing records that no one else can claim

-Next I like the ability to do all of these things well: PTS, REBS, DEFENSE (no one stat encompasses this), PASSING, FG %,

-And last I like balls….meaning you are a cutthroat mf’er and you want to take people out in the end





#1- Tim Duncan: Shaq has the same amount of rings and if this was two years ago when Shaq was still in his prime, he would have been a no-brainer, but duncan, despite his inability to hit free throws in the finals, is the best player in the game. Period. This is echoed among the rest of the players in the NBA so you know it is valid. The Spurs don’t need him to put up 40 a game but when they are searching for “O” they go directly to Timmy (see 3rd and 4th quarter of 2005 Game 7). The dominance of his game is his doing all the little things however. Rebounding, blocking shots, setting screens, tipping the ball to a teammate-there just is no prima donna in the guy and that’s what makes him such a leader for his team as well. No superstar can take punishment from a coach like TD. He was a god send for San Antonio.



#2-Shaq: I’m thinking he might fall of this list after next year but you have to give the big man his due. The best way I can explain it is this. Have you ever played pickup basketball with a very tall and large individual who some how also had insane foot work and touch. Dude is unstoppable and I am talking about guys who are like 6-5 240. I cant even imagine playing against shaq. Have to give him credit for his rings and taking it up a notch in the playoffs.



#3- Kobe Bryant: This is probably going to draw some response but I will fight tooth and nail with anyone who wants to disagree. Ill make his case. Kobe has three rings (and to say “well he had shaq,” is to discount how many times kobe bailed the big fella out in the playoffs…in fact its just plain disrespect) He has insane playoff numbers (remember he holds the previous record for 30 pt playoff games before the age of 23, that is until Amare) Despite people getting on him for shooting that’s what he has to do for his team to have a chance. He is a deft passer and rebounder for his size is ideal size and athleticism for a two guard. How about some records…..9 straight 40 point games….9 threes at the half….i can tell you there are other ones im missing but those two right there are pretty impressive. He is very underrated defensively and lets get to my two favorite things about the guy: One, he works extremely hard to be the best at his craft. Infact he is a maniac about it. Kobe had a rough year last year but how many people have rough years to the tune of 27.6, 6.0, and 5.9. His team did not have the success that it is used to but look at what McGrady did in Orlando in 2004. That was one of the worst teams ever. At least Kobe could see the playoffs in the last few weeks of a much tougher western conference. And he also his training is going to go up a notch this off season as he no longer has court troubles. The second thing about Kobe is that he is the clutchest player in the NBA. Period. Heres some examples:

-Beating the Suns twice on buzzer beaters (once in the playoffs and once in the regular season)

-Game 2 of the 2004 Finals against the Pistons

-Coming back from Denver court to beat Denver in LA

-and my favorite..sinking a three to force overtime and then sinking another three to win the game and have the Lakers become Pacific Division champs two years ago

-and that’s w/o doing any research and just thinking off the top of my head. For all the doubters I think if Amare doesn’t get the MVP, its between Duncan and Kobe.



#4-KG: For the elite players in the league I would say KG has the next most playoff experience. While he is not as cutthroat as I would like he plays the game exactly the way it supposed to be. He is the best passing, dribbling, and shooting (despite dirk) 7 footer in the game. He has an MVP and when he got some help he took his team to the WCF.



#5: Amare: Ok someone let me know if this is my bias (I give him the edge over Dwayne wade because of size and LBJ b/c of playoff exp). Amare is the first rookie of the year to come straight out of high school. He now holds the record for 30 pt games before 23. HE AVERAGED 37 PTS AGAINST THE BEST ON THE BALL POST DEFENDER IN THE NBA.!!! He has won games with his defense (SA, KINGS) and while he should be rebounding more he took that up a notch in the playoffs too. I have been waiting a long time to have a home grown franchise player on any of my teams and STAT answered the bell. He has great work ethic and he only needs time to prove hes clutch (remember the bank three to win it as a rookie in the playoffs?) We as long with fans in Miami and possibly Cleveland (need to see LBJ in the playoffs) are VERY VERY lucky.



Remember I put a premium on playoff production so that’s why my list is the way it is. The rest of my top ten is AI, Wade, TMAC, LBJ and I guess dirk if I had to pick. I’d love to hear what you guys think, being that you all seem very knowledgeable (well most of you….)

 

[Chaplin]

1) Duncan
2) Garnett
3) Kobe
4) Shaq
5) Iverson

Amare is close, but not quite top 5. Lebron is very close to the #5 spot also.

 

[elindholm]

I reject the "rings" standard, but I do believe that overall playoff performance is important, especially for someone who has been around a bit. It's too soon to downgrade James for his lack of playoff appearances, but not too soon to wonder why Garnett hasn't gotten out of the first round more than once in his lengthy career.

I'm surprised that Bryant played so poorly last year. I honestly expected him to step up more. Maybe he'll bounce back next year.

I guess Duncan is #1 by default, but he really didn't play that well in the Finals and was spotty througout the playoffs. Had the last twelve minutes gone Detroit's way instead, would we still be saying that Duncan is the league's best player?

If we're talking right now, I think the reigning MVP has to be on the list. Nash's effort against Dallas was probably the best single-series performance by any player in the league in any playoff series this year. No one controls an offense like he does, and (for the most part) the only way to "shut him down" is to let one of his teammates go off for a huge game.

I can't support O'Neal when it's far from clear that he's the best player on his own team.

1. Duncan
2. Nash
3. Garnett
4. Bryant
5. James

 

[JPlay]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Shaq (this low because of age)
4. McGrady
5. Amare (Needs to improve defense and rebounding)


Kobe (terrible FG% last year, turns the ball over too much, takes too many bad shots, not a team player)

 

[Chaplin]

Kobe is a much more complete player than McGrady.

 

[JPlay]

Kobe is a much more complete player than McGrady.

Kobe was awful defensively last year and was a turnover machine. Kobe's deficiencies were magnified withought Shaq.

I'll take McGrady's 2.58 TO/Gm compared to Kobe's 4.09. Otherwise TMAC was better in every category except FG% where it was .431 vs. .433 which is extremely close.

 

[elindholm]

Excellent, another Bryant/McGrady debate. Those never get old.

 

[George O'Brien]

This particular approach is confusing because the criteria seems to shift from player to player.

Here is a different way to approach it. If money was no object and you wanted to win it all THIS YEAR, what five guys would you pick?

 

[Joe Mama]

Like Eric, I don't put as much importance on rings when considering who is the best individual player. Yes there are players like Shaquille O'Neal who seemed to make everyone around them better because of all of the attention he gets. I factor that into my list.

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Kobe Bryant (before his team was ravaged with injuries they were the #6 seed in the Western Conference)


Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash would probably both be on the list if they were even average defenders. In fact I would put Nash as a very, very close #6. I'm sure I'll feel like changing it as soon as I'm through.

Joe Mama

 

[JPlay]

Like Eric, I don't put as much importance on rings when considering who is the best individual player. Yes there are players like Shaquille O'Neal who seemed to make everyone around them better because of all of the attention he gets. I factor that into my list.

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Kobe Bryant (before his team was ravaged with injuries they were the #6 seed in the Western Conference)


Amare Stoudemire and Steve Nash would probably both be on the list if they were even average defenders. In fact I would put Nash as a very, very close #6. I'm sure I'll feel like changing it as soon as I'm through.

Joe Mama

Ravaged with injuries? The only one that was out for a significant amount of time was Kobe. And the team was actually worse when he came back. The reason for their poor record was Rudy T's retirement and Kobe's inability to make his teamates better.

 

[F-Dog]

Big guys are so important. Guards who get into the 'best player' debate almost always have a top-class big man behind them, creating space.


1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Shaq
4. Amare
5. LeBron James

There's a gap between 3 and 4. Amare and LeBron are in a tier with Kobe, Dirk, TMac, etc.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Best players RIGHT NOW.

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Wade
4. Amare
5. Ginobili

Kobe didn't make the playoffs, and he had some depth on that team. Nope. Either his game has degenerated or he was more dependent upon Shaq or Jackson than we recognized.

Iverson. He, like Marbury, has to dominate the ball too much for his team to be successful. To his credit, he improved on this significantly this year, but he is still not there.

Garnett. His team notoriously underachieves. I probably ought to put him in this list ahead of Ginobili, but not ahead of Amare or Wade.

 

[elindholm]

I was wondering whether anyone would be crazy enough to put Ginobili on the list, but I'm a bit surprised to be the only one so far to list Nash.

If money was no object and you wanted to win it all THIS YEAR, what five guys would you pick?

Unfortunately this is a different question, because of the whole argument about players who are best suited to have supporting roles. For instance, I think most people on this board would agree that Nash is better "overall" (whatever that means) than Tony Parker, and yet if you replaced Parker with Nash on the Spurs, would that make them better? Quite possibly not.

 

[elindholm]

Wow, I just noticed that every single poster so far has put Duncan at #1. I did too, so I can't complain, but I'm surprised that he is dominating this informal poll so completely.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Kobe didn't make the playoffs, and he had some depth on that team. Nope. Either his game has degenerated or he was more dependent upon Shaq or Jackson than we recognized..

Depth, perhaps. Size, talent, coaching...no. Injuries, midseason system offensive system change...yes. Remeber Amare didn't make it to the playoffs last year and was 0-5 without Nash if you want to discount certain players due to the lack of a supporting player.

Iverson. He, like Marbury, has to dominate the ball too much for his team to be successful. To his credit, he improved on this significantly this year, but he is still not there..

Yeah, winning the Eastern Conference and being the only team in the playoffs to defeat that Laker squad that swept through the Spurs and Kings sure isn't being succesful.

Garnett. His team notoriously underachieves. I probably ought to put him in this list ahead of Ginobili, but not ahead of Amare or Wade.

Wade can't shoot, sorry there's no way I'd put him on any list of Top 5 although I think the guy is sick. I'd even wager that Garnett has an equal J to Dwanye Wade. And KG's team really only noticeably underachieved this year. In the years prior, he actually carried garbage squads to the playoffs in the Western Conference which isn't an easy feat.

I'd replace the three names you discounted with Wade, Amare, and Ginobli.

 

[jbeecham]

Picking by position: (Starter, Backup)

C: Duncan, Shaq
PF: Amare, Nowitzki
SF: Garnett, McGrady
SG: Lebron, Kobe
PG: Nash, Wade

Top Players Overall:

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Shaq
4. Lebron
5. Kobe
6. Amare
7. McGrady
8. Nash
9. Wade
10. Nowitzki
10b. Ginobilli

 

[Ballamania]

if you are going by the best players period instead of the best players from the past season then i would go:



duncan
kobe( i hate saying that because i cant stand him)
garnett
shaq
iverson,t-mac

 

[Mainstreet]

Here are my selections based on the five players I would choose right now to go for a Championship (if I could have added a sixth man, it would probably be Ginobilli):

C- Duncan- More mobile than Shaq but still can't shoot free throws and not really a true center. However, if I had to choose between the two right now, I would pick Duncan as Shaq's age and condioning are becoming a question.

PF- Stoudemire- IMO, he outplayed Tim Duncan in the WCF.

SF- Nowitzki- Desire is not a question and he plays hard. It could be argued Garnett is the most talented big man but for some reason he does not elevate his team the way he should. Norwitzki can also shoots light out but defense can be questioned. When I think of Dallas I think of Dirk.

SG- Wade- Probably not a true SG but I have to get my best five players on the floor. Undoubtedly he is really on his way up.

PG- Nash- Why? Nash just simply because he elevates the play of every player on the court. He has a multiplier effect on the talent of each player and cements the team together.

 

[Chaplin]

SF- Nowitzki- Desire is not a question and he plays hard. It could be argued Garnett is the most talented big man but for some reason he does not elevate his team the way he should. Norwitzki can also shoots light out but defense can be questioned. When I think of Dallas I think of Dirk.

But when you think of Minnesota, you don't think of Garnett??

 

[Mainstreet]

But when you think of Minnesota, you don't think of Garnett??

I'm a little harder on Garnett because, IMO, he could possibly be the best big man in the NBA. However, his talent does not always translate as well to improved team play.

Of course I think of Garnett when I think about the Timberwolves just as I think of Tim Duncan when I think of the Spurs. It's just that I think the fire burns brighter inside Nowitzki.

 

[B-Dogg]

I still think Shaq has to be #1, he left the Lakers and they are not any where close to what they were, he went to Miami and they are now a championship team. There is no one in the league that commands as much attention and while he doesnt put up the numbers he used to he is still the most domination player in basketball. There is a big difference between the best, skill wise, and the most dominating. If you want a championship and want one now you have to take Shaq. He as much or more than Steve Nash makes everyone better because he has to be doubled and creates so many open looks for teammates because of it. Now a year latter maybe two I dont think this will still be the case but for the time being it is... JMO

 

[SeattleCard]

1. amare
2. nash
3. marion
4. JJ
5. shaq

how's that for a homer?

 

[Gaddabout]

My unbeatable starting 5:

C - Shaq
PF - Duncan (and this is his most natural position)
SF - Garnett
SG - LeBron
PG - Steve Nash

I don't care about defensive problems PG because no one's scoring on my front line.

My unbeatable bench:

PG - Dwayne Wade
SG - Ray Allen, Ginobli
SF - Tracy McGrady
PF - Amare, Dirk Nowitzki
C - Ben Wallace

LeBron, Wade and McGrady could all handle point responsibilities as well as play 2/3 in a case of need. Amare and Wallace become interchangeable 4/5s depending on matchups. Allen, Nowitzki and Ginobli are instant offense off the bench.

If this were an American Olympic team, Wade would start and I'd probably add Chauncey Billups to the team. Ginobli's spot would probably go to Joe Johnson (best available multi-skilled American guard). Nowitzki's spot would probably go to Elton Brand, another 4/5 tweener.

Kobe and AI are amazing players, but I don't see where they fit into a great *team*. My next American selections would probably be from a group including Jermaine O'Neal, Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas, Shawn Marion, Mike Bibby and Chris Bosh.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Shaq (this low because of age)
4. McGrady
5. Amare (Needs to improve defense and rebounding)

I thought Amare's rebounding during the playoffs was much improved especially the last two series. I'll agree with the defense.

 

[Chaplin]

I thought Amare's rebounding during the playoffs was much improved especially the last two series. I'll agree with the defense.

Amare's rebounding was improved dramatically over the last quarter of the season, not just the playoffs. I remember specifically thinking his couple good rebounding games wouldn't last, but I was really wrong.