Your Evaluation of Skelton's Play?

[82CardsGrad]

You can continue to insist this, but it just isn't true. "Good" would constitute having at least 1 top 15 back. Anything past 15 is average at best, which is where both Beanie and Tim fit.

Well... for RB's with more than 100 attempts, Timmy is ranked 5th in the NFL in YPC!

 

[mjb21aztd]

horrible beyond bad he is worse then Hall!!!!!!!




































Lol jking he is a very good qb with a good arm, he is built like a lb just massive, and he has some speed looked like big ben when he made that one guy miss and got like a 6 yard run!!! Can't wait to see what skelton does vs the panthers

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If you think the coaching staff was forced by the front office to sign DA, cut Leinart and elevate Max Hall to the #2 you are nuts.

I think you'd be equally nuts to think that Whiz wanted to start the season with DA as qb. It's pretty common knowledge among those who follow the team that he wanted Bulger, who appears to be a better option. The front office decided to cheap out (shocking!) while shedding money left and right without spending.

While Leinart may have been a better option than DA, he certainly didn't show anything of late to assure anything. Further, Leinart had no interest in being #2, so his hand was forced.

It's easy for many on the board to say that Whiz bungled the qb situation, but what all of these people fail to do is suggest a reasonable alternative. I'd love to hear it. (and it sure as hell better be cost effective, as we see)

We don't run the ball because our coaching staff chooses to throw all the time.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. My assertion is that we don't run because we can't and we don't have the personnel. Your opinion seems to be that Whiz and the coaching staff have some bizarre obsession with the pass, or are completely incompetent, and are so obstinate that they're not using our "good" backs.

Whisenhunt is trying to run the same offense he ran with Warner, the one he was most succesful with.

Whiz is trying to run the same offense he ran with Warner because our personnel dictates it. We're not a power running team, and our team over the last couple years was built around Warner. Did you honestly anticipate a full rebuild of the offense in one off season? Show me one team that successfully transitioned from the loss of a hall of fame QB that didn't have a star in the wings. It doesn't happen.

There was NO reason for Skleton to throw the ball 37 times NONE especially against one of the worst rush defenses in the NFL--even with one RB that was sick.

Did you honestly watch the first half? If not, go take a gander at TH's rushing numbers in the first half. Further, Skelton was very effective, and in lieu of some egregious drops, would have had much better #'s. I guess it's odd to complain about a gameplan that led to the biggest blowout in Cardinals history, but what the hell do I know?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think you'd be equally nuts to think that Whiz wanted to start the season with DA as qb. It's pretty common knowledge among those who follow the team that he wanted Bulger, who appears to be a better option. The front office decided to cheap out (shocking!) while shedding money left and right without spending.

While Leinart may have been a better option than DA, he certainly didn't show anything of late to assure anything. Further, Leinart had no interest in being #2, so his hand was forced.

It's easy for many on the board to say that Whiz bungled the qb situation, but what all of these people fail to do is suggest a reasonable alternative. I'd love to hear it. (and it sure as hell better be cost effective, as we see)



We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. My assertion is that we don't run because we can't and we don't have the personnel. Your opinion seems to be that Whiz and the coaching staff have some bizarre obsession with the pass, or are completely incompetent, and are so obstinate that they're not using our "good" backs.




Whiz is trying to run the same offense he ran with Warner because our personnel dictates it. We're not a power running team, and our team over the last couple years was built around Warner. Did you honestly anticipate a full rebuild of the offense in one off season? Show me one team that successfully transitioned from the loss of a hall of fame QB that didn't have a star in the wings. It doesn't happen.




Did you honestly watch the first half? If not, go take a gander at TH's rushing numbers in the first half. Further, Skelton was very effective, and in lieu of some egregious drops, would have had much better #'s. I guess it's odd to complain about a gameplan that led to the biggest blowout in Cardinals history, but what the hell do I know?

Totally with you on this.

Some people just look at the end result and think "1+1=2" and then form their opinion and can't even fathom there was more at play then just "DA and Max Hall Suck! Wiz picked them so he sucks!" or even worse assume they know the inner workings of this off season when they really have the most simplistic ABC view.

Yes the end result was bad and Wiz is accountable for that to a degree, but like you mentioned there are alot more factors at play (Whitehurst, Bulger, Timing of draft and FA, Matts poor offseason, what the FO wants to pay out, and most importantly: WHAT ELSE WAS AVAILABLE) then just "How could WIz go into the season with DA and Hall?!?"

I would expound but I think you did a fine job of explaining in this post and in your previous posts.

 

[Zeno]

I think you'd be equally nuts to think that Whiz wanted to start the season with DA as qb. It's pretty common knowledge among those who follow the team that he wanted Bulger, who appears to be a better option. The front office decided to cheap out (shocking!) while shedding money left and right without spending.

And Bulger would have been the answer? Seriously? Has anyone paid attention to Bulger since 2006(his ONLY healthy season in the NFL)? If Bulger was plan A and DA was plan B our coaching staff has a lot to answer for. Ask your average Rams fan their opinion of Bulger you won't get much in the way of endorsement. Thats not foresight, thats not planning ahead, thats a team that seemed to be caught unprepared--thats inexcusable...he has had 3 yrs to find and groom a QB and he didn't do it, I suppose that is the front offices fault too?

Whisenhunt wanted DA to start or he wouldn't have forced Leinart out--he honestly believed DA gave us the best chance to win--we will never know whether he was right or not, Leinart isn't here to prove otherwise. A lot of us questioned it at the time, it made no sense especially with DA history in the NFL.

As for the gameplan by the offense leading to the biggest blowout in a long time('93 not in their history). You think maybe the fact Orton looked like crap the whole game had anything to do with it? You are giving the offense too much credit(against a defense that has been as bad as ours this season) and completely discounting the job the defense did. I expected Orton to tear us up, the defense for once came to play.

This team can run the ball if they commit to it but they refuse to. Whisenhunt is a terrible play caller and needs to find a good OC this offseason to relieve him of those responsibilities.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think you'd be equally nuts to think that Whiz wanted to start the season with DA as qb.

Uh..... That's apparently what he 'wanted.' His cutting of Leinart almost assured it. I'm sure he 'wanted' Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to be his QB this year too, so we might as well give him a pass for not being able to start them.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Uh..... That's apparently what he 'wanted.' His cutting of Leinart almost assured it. I'm sure he 'wanted' Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to be his QB this year too, so we might as well give him a pass for not being able to start them.

Thinking DA was a better option then Matt (and we'll never know so its all conjecture at this point) is different then championing Derek Anderson as his guy and they guy he wanted from the beginning, as some people continue to intimate.

Derek Anderson was the best of dog s--- options Simple

 

[D-Dogg]

Thinking DA was a better option then Matt (and we'll never know so its all conjecture at this point) ~snip~
Derek Anderson was the best of dog s--- options Simple

We know. We have historical evidence that absolutely shows it. Leinart wasn't remotely as terrible as DA. And DA was coming off a horrific year, which he basically replicated.

Leinart was not in that position. Let's not start to revise history into some crazy battle that DA won based on his skills or historical play.

I think it is a realistic and educated assumption to say that Leinart would have been better than DA. Arguing otherwise makes me think you didn't watch DA play this year. The only conjecture is how much better he would have been.

Whis kind of made the ds options by elevating Hall to 2nd QB. We would have been fundamentally better off rolling with Leinart, DA, Skelton as our QB depth chart. Even if Leinart sucked out loud, he wouldn't have sucked in the Hall level of suck, or the DA level of suck. I really don't think there is much room for debate here. Hindsight, blah blah blah...we had hindsight on DA that we ignored. Hall was a moxie train which only gets you so far. It was a piss poor decision, and one that absolutely can't be swept under the rug. Whis has his high spots, and his low spots. That's a low.

 

[Mulli]

We know. We have historical evidence that absolutely shows it. Leinart wasn't remotely as terrible as DA. And DA was coming off a horrific year, which he basically replicated.

Leinart was not in that position. Let's not start to revise history into some crazy battle that DA won based on his skills or historical play.

I think it is a realistic and educated assumption to say that Leinart would have been better than DA. Arguing otherwise makes me think you didn't watch DA play this year. The only conjecture is how much better he would have been.

Whis kind of made the ds options by elevating Hall to 2nd QB. We would have been fundamentally better off rolling with Leinart, DA, Skelton as our QB depth chart. Even if Leinart sucked out loud, he wouldn't have sucked in the Hall level of suck, or the DA level of suck. I really don't think there is much room for debate here. Hindsight, blah blah blah...we had hindsight on DA that we ignored. Hall was a moxie train which only gets you so far. It was a piss poor decision, and one that absolutely can't be swept under the rug. Whis has his high spots, and his low spots. That's a low.

I don't have the quote, there might not be one, but I think Whiz acknowledges that his QB decisions haven't worked out. Myself, I can admit that watching Leinart, even if he floundered would have been better than watching the Scud scud all over the place.


What is this relevant to again?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

We know. We have historical evidence that absolutely shows it. Leinart wasn't remotely as terrible as DA. And DA was coming off a horrific year, which he basically replicated.

Leinart was not in that position. Let's not start to revise history into some crazy battle that DA won based on his skills or historical play.

I think it is a realistic and educated assumption to say that Leinart would have been better than DA. Arguing otherwise makes me think you didn't watch DA play this year. The only conjecture is how much better he would have been.

Whis kind of made the ds options by elevating Hall to 2nd QB. We would have been fundamentally better off rolling with Leinart, DA, Skelton as our QB depth chart. Even if Leinart sucked out loud, he wouldn't have sucked in the Hall level of suck, or the DA level of suck. I really don't think there is much room for debate here. Hindsight, blah blah blah...we had hindsight on DA that we ignored. Hall was a moxie train which only gets you so far. It was a piss poor decision, and one that absolutely can't be swept under the rug. Whis has his high spots, and his low spots. That's a low.

Common sense and logic with the benefit of hindsight would likely prove you to be right. Keep in mind I was a Leinart guy. But more importantly Wiz was not. Who knows maybe he saw the bigger picture past this season and thought if we go 8-8 with Leinart and then he is pressured to keep going through a charade that he can win the big one with Matt, when he obviously didnt think he could, would put the franchise back even further. Going 8-8 would have been a big improvement for this year, but would you want to go 8-8 for the next 5? Apparently Wiz fel their was a ceiling to where Matt could take this team, and anyone thinking Matt would eventually take us to a Superbowl at this point is myopic at best.

And now watching DA, yeah of course it makes sense that he sucked last year and would suck this year. But I for one thought Wiz would coach him up a bit and that Cleveland was a unwinnable situation. Thats obviously been proven wrong, but the logic at the beginning of the season isn't that far fetched.

Either way its all spilled milk now. For whatever reason Wiz didn't want Leinart and cut bait. His back up plan or what he was left with was DA.

Maybe we should wait with a full offseason to evaluate the QB situation as presently constituited and judge Wiz what he does from here. Last year didn't go according to plan and there was alot of things that can be assumed now, but weren't a given at the time.

Maybe Wiz will look a lot smarter with the same hindsight available to him that we as a fanbase have now, no?

 

[Cardiac]

Common sense and logic with the benefit of hindsight would likely prove you to be right. Keep in mind I was a Leinart guy. But more importantly Wiz was not. Who knows maybe he saw the bigger picture past this season and thought if we go 8-8 with Leinart and then he is pressured to keep going through a charade that he can win the big one with Matt, when he obviously didnt think he could, would put the franchise back even further. Going 8-8 would have been a big improvement for this year, but would you want to go 8-8 for the next 5? Apparently Wiz fel their was a ceiling to where Matt could take this team, and anyone thinking Matt would eventually take us to a Superbowl at this point is myopic at best.

And now watching DA, yeah of course it makes sense that he sucked last year and would suck this year. But I for one thought Wiz would coach him up a bit and that Cleveland was a unwinnable situation. Thats obviously been proven wrong, but the logic at the beginning of the season isn't that far fetched.

Either way its all spilled milk now. For whatever reason Wiz didn't want Leinart and cut bait. His back up plan or what he was left with was DA.

Maybe we should wait with a full offseason to evaluate the QB situation as presently constituited and judge Wiz what he does from here. Last year didn't go according to plan and there was alot of things that can be assumed now, but weren't a given at the time.

Maybe Wiz will look a lot smarter with the same hindsight available to him that we as a fanbase have now, no?

Best explanation yet. I simply refuse to believe Whiz turned stupid and or was lucky.

ASUChris is spot on about the play calling and our "running" game (IMO). A reshuffled O-line is not equiped to run block against 8 man fronts and countless run blitzes. The way you stop that is by hurting the D through the air and if the season was ever to be turned around then DA needed to get enough shots to improve. He did have his moments; the Vikings and Bucs games gave some hope that he was getting it. Turns out he is who we thought he was but simply running into a brick wall with our "running" game wasn't going to get anything accomplished.

 

[earthsci]

The funny thing is, if Leinart were still here we would be complaining about the quality of QB play (THESMEL being the exception) and clamoring for Skelton or Hall. We would still suck.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My evaluation of Skelton's play: as a 5th round rookie out of the Patroit League in his first start, he did well. He also did well relative to the performances we've seen out of Anderson and even Hall. Over the next three games he might put up similar bad performances, but he earned the opportunity to prove otherwise.

Yeah that. BTW, I would be thrilled with simply competent games out of Skelton. Not looking for a rah rah miracle worker type qb.

 

[Zeno]

The funny thing is, if Leinart were still here we would be complaining about the quality of QB play (THESMEL being the exception) and clamoring for Skelton or Hall. We would still suck.

I doubt it, at least not to the extent of complaining of what we saw from DA. Leinart likely wouldn't be lighting it up but he wouldn't be killing us the way DA & Hall did either.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If ML were retained as the starter we would be in 1st place IMO, probably 6-7 like the other teams in the divison and would'
ve finished 8-8 IMO.

 

[Black Jesus]

I would say the early drops by Breaston, Fitz, etc definitely skewed his performance.

I am not saying that I am a believer, however, I would of liked to have seen what his confidence would have done with Breaston catching the 35 yarder and Fitz not dropping the opening screen pass.

There were other drops as well, I believe Doucet had one.

If Leinart started all year, we are definitely 8-8 and in playoffs.

 

[earthsci]

I doubt it, at least not to the extent of complaining of what we saw from DA.

You would think but remember how much DA was getting hit against the Rams, Falcons and Sandy Eggo. He would of been twitching at the sight of a canary...and probably doing a lot of checking down.

 

[earthsci]

If Leinart started all year, we are definitely 8-8 and in playoffs.

Can't argue with that.

 

[THESMEL]

the biggest deal with Matt and the Cardinals right now is it shows flaws in whisenhunt, not only in what he done, but how he did it.

The QB is glaring but there are bad personell decisions from playing time, contracts, playcalling, attitude, mismanagement, all over the field.

Yes we need 2 more QB's just like we did last offseason. but we need everything else too. Me I want to secure the core 2nd tier talent and Fitz.

 

[D-Dogg]

But I for one thought Wiz would coach him up a bit and that Cleveland was a unwinnable situation. Thats obviously been proven wrong, but the logic at the beginning of the season isn't that far fetched.

Same with me...many of us landed in that boat. I think Whis was sure he would turn him around. Whether Whis can't do it or DA is just that horrific is an unknown variable.


Your hypothesis of perpetual 8-8 vs scorched earth and reboot is a good one though. I can get behind that logic. Doesn't mean it is correct, but it does help explain things without needing to involve a straightjacket for Whis.

 

[Mulli]

Same with me...many of us landed in that boat. I think Whis was sure he would turn him around. Whether Whis can't do it or DA is just that horrific is an unknown variable.


Your hypothesis of perpetual 8-8 vs scorched earth and reboot is a good one though. I can get behind that logic. Doesn't mean it is correct, but it does help explain things without needing to involve a straightjacket for Whis.

I really doubt there is a coach in the league that can turn DA around.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Common sense and logic with the benefit of hindsight would likely prove you to be right. Keep in mind I was a Leinart guy. But more importantly Wiz was not. Who knows maybe he saw the bigger picture past this season and thought if we go 8-8 with Leinart and then he is pressured to keep going through a charade that he can win the big one with Matt, when he obviously didnt think he could, would put the franchise back even further. Going 8-8 would have been a big improvement for this year, but would you want to go 8-8 for the next 5? Apparently Wiz fel their was a ceiling to where Matt could take this team, and anyone thinking Matt would eventually take us to a Superbowl at this point is myopic at best.

And now watching DA, yeah of course it makes sense that he sucked last year and would suck this year. But I for one thought Wiz would coach him up a bit and that Cleveland was a unwinnable situation. Thats obviously been proven wrong, but the logic at the beginning of the season isn't that far fetched.

Either way its all spilled milk now. For whatever reason Wiz didn't want Leinart and cut bait. His back up plan or what he was left with was DA.

Maybe we should wait with a full offseason to evaluate the QB situation as presently constituited and judge Wiz what he does from here. Last year didn't go according to plan and there was alot of things that can be assumed now, but weren't a given at the time.

Maybe Wiz will look a lot smarter with the same hindsight available to him that we as a fanbase have now, no?

Terrific explanation and one that I totally agree with... As for DA - it's very interesting to me that as of this moment, he has still not been cleared to play and is still suffering from "concussion-like" symptoms. What are we to conclude from this? I still can't even recall the hit he took that would've have caused such a severe concussion? Are we sure it happened in the Rams game? Could it have occured earlier in the year? If so, could this have contributed toward his horrific play? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here... but then again, am I??

 

[Crazy Canuck]

During the telecast they cut to John's family and mentioned that his Dad is also named John, and had a football background. There was a CFL star player by the name of John Skelton, and wonder if this could be his father?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The funny thing is, if Leinart were still here we would be complaining about the quality of QB play (THESMEL being the exception) and clamoring for Skelton or Hall. We would still suck.

No, if Leinart had started DA would have been the backup and we would have been clamoring for him .

 

[conraddobler]

I would say the early drops by Breaston, Fitz, etc definitely skewed his performance.

I am not saying that I am a believer, however, I would of liked to have seen what his confidence would have done with Breaston catching the 35 yarder and Fitz not dropping the opening screen pass.

There were other drops as well, I believe Doucet had one.

If Leinart started all year, we are definitely 8-8 and in playoffs.

I think this was due to them being surprised by the ball hitting their hands.

It took a quarter or so for them to remember that's what it's like most of the time when a QB throws you the ball.