Would you have thrown the challenge flag?

[D-Dogg]

On CJ rolling and running for 62, I would have thrown the challenge flag without even waiting to hear advice in the headset. The cards were hustling to beat the challenge and did.

My reasoning... At worst it stands and I get a time out charged. If it stands, I'm ready with D, rested and it was a nice long time out. Thats not a bad outcome as its a good timeout call regardless, i just get the benefit of the review. Best case it is overturned.

Instead, it is not reviewed and the D has to race downfield for a spike.


Agree? Disagree?

 

[BillsCarnage]

I'd rather have a talk with the defender who didn't bother to complete the tackle.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

That was one of those plays that is only right, when your team is the benefactor.

We've been screwed over so many times on BS calls, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it going in our favor for once.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Can't throw a flag - forward progress isn't reviewable. Refs told that to Harbaugh (and he was furious, of course).

 

[daves]

Can't throw a flag - forward progress isn't reviewable. Refs told that to Harbaugh (and he was furious, of course).

This. Throw the flag and you get a penalty.

...dbs

 

[NJCardFan]

I'd rather have a talk with the defender who didn't bother to complete the tackle.

The defender didn't do anything wrong per say. He grabbed CJ and rolled him over. In his mind he made the tackle. Where you can fault him was that he never heard the whistle.

 

[GatorAZ]

The fact that you can't even challenge to see if he his knee or elbow might've down is such a stupid rule. There's so many absurdities regarding rules that go against common sense.

 

[Darkside]

It's plays like that which cause teams like Seattle and the Rams to play so physical and finish plays, sometimes even after the whistle. That right there is exactly why. If that were the Rams instead of Baltimore, someone would have came in and laid wood on CJ and they would have sorted it out later.

Off the topic, but frankly our team needs to be more physical on defense. We need to finish plays. Yes, they may call some penalties, maybe 50% of the time in the regular season, but in the playoffs (and the further you go in the playoffs) they swallow their whistles for the most part. That's why physically dominating teams fare so well in the playoffs and deeper into the playoffs.

And no I wouldn't have challenged because it's not reviewable. Which is another reason to finish all plays and hit like you're playing football. Half the players don't even know all the nuances of the rules, you're better off telling your dudes to hit anything that moves until you hear a whistle or get a penalty.

 

[TJ]

This. Throw the flag and you get a penalty.



...dbs

They got rid of that penalty years ago

 

[Cardsfanstl]

Pretty sure everybody watching the game on TV heard this. The Espn referee rule explainer said CJ was still slightly moving forward as he laid on top Williams. That plus neither his knee or elbow had hit the ground is why the ref on the field did not rule forward progress had stopped.

 

[daves]

They got rid of that penalty years ago

Great correction! Checking the 2012 and 2015 NFL Rule Books, the wording has changed from "Penalty: For initiating a challenge when a team is prohibited from doing so: Loss of 15 yards" to "Penalty: For initiating a challenge when a team has exhausted its timeouts: Loss of 15 yards."

...dave

 

[daves]

you're better off telling your dudes to hit anything that moves until you hear a whistle or get a penalty.

... Especially since they changed the rules so that a team can be awarded the ball (though they can't advance it) for recovering a fumble even after the whistle has blown. [... Which always seemed to me a terrible idea since it encourages players to play past the whistle.]

...dbs

 

[Jasper]

I kinda side with the defender on this one. You are on your back, you have the runner wrapped up in your arms on your back, what are you supposed to do? It just happens his knees, elbows don't touch grass.

1. roll him over?
2. wait for your teammate to plow him or jump on top of him, possible roughing penalty.

 

[daves]

I kinda side with the defender on this one. You are on your back, you have the runner wrapped up in your arms on your back, what are you supposed to do? It just happens his knees, elbows don't touch grass.

1. roll him over?
2. wait for your teammate to plow him or jump on top of him, possible roughing penalty.

Wait for a whistle.

...dbs

 

[ajcardfan]

I kinda side with the defender on this one. You are on your back, you have the runner wrapped up in your arms on your back, what are you supposed to do? It just happens his knees, elbows don't touch grass.

1. roll him over?
2. wait for your teammate to plow him or jump on top of him, possible roughing penalty.

Don't let go until you hear a whistle. Yeah, a lot of times he would've been whistled down but, damn, even Pop Warner kids are taught to play until the whistle blows.

If that was Frostee Rucker and Justin Forsett many on this board would be slagging Rucker. You know it's true.

 

[D-Dogg]

Can't throw a flag - forward progress isn't reviewable. Refs told that to Harbaugh (and he was furious, of course).

You aren't challenging forward progress. You are challenging that his knee or another body part was down. The coach states what they are challenging.

I don't know what the announcers said about it since I didn't watch the game, just in the stands...was just surprised we were able to make it 60 yards downfield and spike the ball without a challenge.

 

[D-Dogg]

Pretty sure everybody watching the game on TV heard this. The Espn referee rule explainer said CJ was still slightly moving forward as he laid on top Williams. That plus neither his knee or elbow had hit the ground is why the ref on the field did not rule forward progress had stopped.

Didn't watch on TV.

Regardless, I'm not saying it was a good or bad call (haven't seen it yet on TV). Just saying that challenging it there would have been a good idea without even knowing if it was good or bad. It's basically a timeout, with the benefit of a review...at its worst. At its best, it's an overturned call. T

He could challenge the call that the runner's knee/body was down by contact...that is reviewable. Just like it is reviewable that a player steps out of bounds. Forward progress is not reviewable, but down by contact being missed IS reviewable.

 

[Shaggy]

I just can't believe he didn't score. I noticed Brown as scared to block the guy because he may have thought it might be a block in the back? Didn't get why Brown pulled back and really didn't block the guy that tackled CJ.

 

[D-Dogg]

I just can't believe he didn't score. I noticed Brown as scared to block the guy because he may have thought it might be a block in the back? Didn't get why Brown pulled back and really didn't block the guy that tackled CJ.

This play happened right in front of us...to me, it looked like he was worried about getting a penalty because he couldn't get in front/side of the guy to block him and didn't want to get a penalty on what he probably assumed would be a TD.

CJ slowed up on that, BTW...I'm not sure he knew that safety was so close.

 

[jbeecham]

I just can't believe he didn't score. I noticed Brown as scared to block the guy because he may have thought it might be a block in the back? Didn't get why Brown pulled back and really didn't block the guy that tackled CJ.

Brown's battling a hamstring injury & isn't at full speed... the defender had a better angle anyways. CJ shouldn't have gotten caught, he either got tired or didn't know someone was chasing him. He slowed down on his 26 yard TD too & let a defender get a piece of him at the goal line.

 

[Jasper]

He could challenge the call that the runner's knee/body was down by contact...that is reviewable. Just like it is reviewable that a player steps out of bounds. Forward progress is not reviewable, but down by contact being missed IS reviewable.

If he challenged CJ was down by contact, knee/body he would have lost and also would have lost a timeout. CJ's knee/elbow never touched the ground.

The refs should have blown the whistle soon as forward progress was stopped, but that is not challenge able.

 

[daves]

You aren't challenging forward progress. You are challenging that his knee or another body part was down. The coach states what they are challenging.

I don't know what the announcers said about it since I didn't watch the game, just in the stands...was just surprised we were able to make it 60 yards downfield and spike the ball without a challenge.

For the record, the Cardinals did hurry up to run another play, but there was no spike....

1-10-ARI 30
(4:17) 23-C.Johnson up the middle to BAL 8 for 62 yards (33-W.Hill).
1-8-BAL 8
(4:02) 23-C.Johnson up the middle to BAL 6 for 2 yards (21-L.Webb).

...dbs

 

[JCSunsfan]

Can't throw a flag - forward progress isn't reviewable. Refs told that to Harbaugh (and he was furious, of course).

There should be no such thing as a non-reviewable play.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The ref was watching closely and was aware that CJ was not down. CJ was still moving. So it was obviously still a live play in the refs mind. It wasn't just a missed play or an oversight.

 

[jmt]

There should be no such thing as a non-reviewable play.

I agree. Get it right. Just don't take so long to make a decision.