Worst 2nd Half Performances of NFC West QB's in 2024

[oaken1]

I'm sure there are people that think this, just like people believe the earth is flat and Tip Reiman believes that birds aren't real. A lot of national writers who don't follow the team closely believe this.

But the people you're regularly shouting at in 26-point font on this board? You're not going to find many there who believe this. Everyone thinks this team should be alive in the playoff picture past Christmas.

The inconvenient truth is,...we also had the same feeling for 2024,
even as bad as it went, we looked like a playoff team for most of the season...but that damned pesky BYE

 

[oaken1]

I'm sure there are people that think this, just like people believe the earth is flat and Tip Reiman believes that birds aren't real. A lot of national writers who don't follow the team closely believe this.

But the people you're regularly shouting at in 26-point font on this board? You're not going to find many there who believe this. Everyone thinks this team should be alive in the playoff picture past Christmas.

see, I see this as surrender.
He recognizes the wisdom, and also realizes that wisdom comes with age. Some of us being so damned wise it has become apparent to him that we must be pretty old.
Old folks have vision and hearing problems...so he "shouts" with 26 point font,...so as to be sure we can "hear" what he has to say.

Personally, I appreciate it...as my recliner is 8 feet away from my screen....which is a bad distance for my reading glasses. His efforts in this save me from having to adjust my font on the computer,...which when done, interferes with my video games because the chat box gets so big I cant see the bad guys to kill.
so...its obviously a young dude showing respect to his elders.

 

[oaken1]

KYLER IS DA BEST YOU ALL BE DUMB TO DOUBT!

the very best part of his arrival is the fact that he obviously came in here thinking that in the past twenty years we have all been on this board,...somehow we have not hashed all this out heatedly from every single angle since a month before Kyler was even drafted.
Im actually surprised he has not whipped out the high school stats yet to show the proof of Kylers history of winning.

 

[BirdGangThing]

KYLER IS DA BEST YOU ALL BE DUMB TO DOUBT!

exactly - and for those of you pitiful enough not to know just look at all the stats before 1974 and how the dolphins went undefeated in '72

if that doesn't convince you try explaining how walter payton led the league until berry sanders came along - that's what i thought

the dallas cowboys went 62-30 with danny white but the 49ers went 13-2 in 1987

Min vs AZ
Bal vs Buf
Jax vs LAR

all clear indicators

HOW YOU CAN'T NOT SEE HOW THIS DOESN'T NOT MAKE KYLER BETTER

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HOW CAN KYLER BE EXPECTED TO PERFORM AFTER METALLICA CUT THEIR HAIR - NEITHER HAVE ANY DEFENSE

Why is this so hard for so called cardinals fans to understand

After a motorcycle accident in 2006, the Pittsburgh Steelers had a record of 27-4 with Ben Roethlisberger as their quarterback, including playoff games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

exactly - and for those of you pitiful enough not to know just look at all the stats before 1974 and how the dolphins went undefeated in '72

if that doesn't convince you try explaining how walter payton led the league until berry sanders came along - that's what i thought

the dallas cowboys went 62-30 with danny white but the 49ers went 13-2 in 1987

Min vs AZ
Bal vs Buf
Jax vs LAR

all clear indicators

HOW YOU CAN'T NOT SEE HOW THIS DOESN'T NOT MAKE KYLER BETTER

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HOW CAN KYLER BE EXPECTED TO PERFORM AFTER METALLICA CUT THEIR HAIR - NEITHER HAVE ANY DEFENSE

Why is this so hard for so called fans to understand

So good. You keep this up and I’ll never be able to put him on ignore. I’m here for this.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Based on 1 playoff game without our best WR vs the inevitable Superbowl Champions.

Where it was also completely obvious we were heavily out-coached from play 1.

Why in the world did you feel you needed to post this in bold large print?

A lot of us have been here a long time and this is not necessary

We get your point and got it the first time along with the 23rd time

 

[kerouac9]

exactly - and for those of you pitiful enough not to know just look at all the stats before 1974 and how the dolphins went undefeated in '72

if that doesn't convince you try explaining how walter payton led the league until berry sanders came along - that's what i thought

the dallas cowboys went 62-30 with danny white but the 49ers went 13-2 in 1987

Min vs AZ
Bal vs Buf
Jax vs LAR

all clear indicators

HOW YOU CAN'T NOT SEE HOW THIS DOESN'T NOT MAKE KYLER BETTER

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HOW CAN KYLER BE EXPECTED TO PERFORM AFTER METALLICA CUT THEIR HAIR - NEITHER HAVE ANY DEFENSE

Why is this so hard for so called fans to understand

This is amazing parody

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Do people here believe this? Like more than a handful? I think the breakdown is more like:

< 10% believe Kyler can be a top eight quarterback (alongside Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow) -- might be closer to 5% right now, but will rise in the next three-game win streak

~ 70% believe Kyler can be in the 8-12 range -- good enough to make the playoffs but can only make and win a conference championship team if the stars align with the roster around him

~20% believe Kyler is inside the middle third (12-24) and is unlikely to rise above that, making a playoff appearance and early exit the highest aspiration

~ 5% believe Kyler is a bum

I think that number is extremely inflated based on how this board views Kyler.

I'd wager it would be something closer to

< 10%
20%
30%
40%

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Based on 1 playoff game without our best WR vs the inevitable Superbowl Champions.

Where it was also completely obvious we were heavily out-coached from play 1.

Why in the world did you feel you needed to post this in bold large print?

A lot of us have been here a long time and this is not necessary

We get your point and got it the first time along with the 23rd time

100%. It is considered shouting and has no place on this board. Consider it a warning @cardinals2025

 

[daves]

How many points should we expect vs a top 7 defense in the league in their place where they were avg giving up 16?

Top 3 def vs the run that we gashed for 3 quarters.

How many TO's do you think a top 7 defense playing its best at home, created on a per game avg last year?

Do you even remember the Vikings won 14 games?

I guess if you don't expect Murray to be able to beat good defenses, he's meeting your expectations well.

 

[daves]

And my point with posting the game logs is to show how our "expectations" of Kyler didn't even match what other NFC West QB's did in the 2nd half of the season.

This is a LIE. Not going to duplicate my post from the Murray debate thread, but click here to see the FACTS.

Murray poops the bed late in every season, while two of our NFC West opponent QBs got better in every way (three if you count both Darnold and Smith), while the third (Purdy) didn't for the first time in his career, and his team had a Cardinal-esque finish to the season.

 

[HookemCards]

Jayden Daniels' rookie year stats wise was actually pretty similar to Kyler. Kyler peaked mid way his 3rd year and hasn't been the same since.

This next comment isn't a Kyler v Jayden comment.

Lets judge Daniels/KK after season 3 to see if KK gets stale like he did in AZ or actually make needed adjustments.

Your missing the point. Its not all about stats, its about leadership. Daniels led his team to a 12-5 record, and actually won 2 playoff games his rookie year, one which was against the top seed in the NFC. And I don't think the Redskins roster was that much better than the Cardinals roster last year, that team believed in him and rallied around him. Forget Daniels for a minute, Bo Nix took his team to the playoffs last year.

 

[PDXChris]

Your missing the point. Its not all about stats, its about leadership. Daniels led his team to a 12-5 record, and actually won 2 playoff games his rookie year, one which was against the top seed in the NFC. And I don't think the Redskins roster was that much better than the Cardinals roster last year, that team believed in him and rallied around him. Forget Daniels for a minute, Bo Nix took his team to the playoffs last year.

Washington's defense was 10th, AZs was 20th in total yard given up a game.

And leadership? Daniels quit on the Sun Devils and transferred to LSU for more money. Yeah, leadership! So, no, I'm not missing the point.

 

[kerouac9]

Your missing the point. Its not all about stats, its about leadership. Daniels led his team to a 12-5 record, and actually won 2 playoff games his rookie year, one which was against the top seed in the NFC. And I don't think the Redskins roster was that much better than the Cardinals roster last year, that team believed in him and rallied around him. Forget Daniels for a minute, Bo Nix took his team to the playoffs last year.

Washington was 8-2 in games decided by a TD or less. Massive regression candidate for next year.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Washington was 8-2 in games decided by a TD or less. Massive regression candidate for next year.

unless he's that guy

 

[kerouac9]

unless he's that guy

Maybe, but probably not. It's not just about that. The reason games decided by 7 points or less matters is that it's basically one play that makes the difference. A WR drops a ball on third down, a bad spot by the refs on a short-yardage run, a random bounce falls into a defender's hands on a tipped pass, the ball bounces off a tight end's face in the red zone.

Those are 50/50 propositions generally end up evening out. Doesn't mean Washington goes 2-8 next year -- they're probably going to have fewer tight games.

That should always be the goal. Don't leave it to chance.

 

[PDXChris]

I know it's a bad take @kerouac9 . I have an absolute disdain and bias for Daniels and how he left ASU. I'll never root for him. That doesn't mean I want him to fail through. I'd never want that for any NFL player outside of the abusers all kinds.

 

[cardinals2025]

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I will await the explanation for why Joe Burrow, who has career stats and QBR that match Patrick Mahomes…isn’t good enough to win as many games as a game manager like Jalen Hurts, who did absolutely nothing to help the Eagles get to the Superbowl this year.

And it better have nothing to do with the fact that the CIN defense has allowed 25 pts per game since Burrow was drafted. Meanwhile PHI defense has been absolutely dominant both years they went to the Superbowl AND Hurts had the best RB on the planet.

Look at Hurts stats vs LAR and tell me Geno Smith or god forbid Kyler wouldn’t have been able to win that game.

This is the whole point of what JG and Monti are building and it was you guys refuse to see. The question is not about if Kyler can be good enough. JG believes he is better than a game manager obviously but the whole point of this offseason was to take the pressure off of the offense by making the defense a juggernaut.

And wouldn’t you know the best defense Kyler had is when he also played his best.

Burrow is obviously a better QB than Kyler. That is indisputable. But imo he is probably the best QB in the league. Mahomes has never not had a great defense until they got pounded by TB and PHI. He has always had great coaches, GM and offensive talent as well as pretty decent offensive lines up until the superbowl this year.

So when people shake their heads and wonder why Kyler can barely get a .500 record, it is not because he is always choking. It is because he is almost always playing in big games with a defense that is worse than the opponents. Of course he has choked at times, I am not denying that. But you guys just completely ignore context.

Justin Herbert similarily has had this same issue despite being blessed with obvious talent. Last year LAC had the 2nd best defense. They won 11 games.

I don’t buy the arguement that Kyler has a special way of choking unlike every other above average QB who also has struggled to win games cuz the defense and other parts of the franchise are absolutely horrible.

An immature Kyler Murray came to what was frankly a horrible situation when he was drafted by our franchise.

Now every other piece is in place, even MORE than in 2021.

And people are saying we can’t get 10 wins and make the playoffs again with him?

Logically it makes zero sense.

 

[cardinals2025]

Maybe, but probably not. It's not just about that. The reason games decided by 7 points or less matters is that it's basically one play that makes the difference. A WR drops a ball on third down, a bad spot by the refs on a short-yardage run, a random bounce falls into a defender's hands on a tipped pass, the ball bounces off a tight end's face in the red zone.

Those are 50/50 propositions generally end up evening out. Doesn't mean Washington goes 2-8 next year -- they're probably going to have fewer tight games.

That should always be the goal. Don't leave it to chance.

Does this also apply to the 4 divisional games that LAR won by 4 pts or less?

Two of which Stafford and McVay couldn’t manage 14 pts.

Hard to predict how good Daniels is, soph slump like Stroud had most likely is incoming. I think he is better than Stroud though. His accuracy and decision making on an offense with less talent than HOU is obvious. Also, he managed to win alot of game while having a bad defense which is impressive. I remember when Stroud played us and threw 4 INTs. We should have won that game. Offense literally couldn’t take advantage.

In terms of raw talent and who I would trust and ignoring how good or bad their team is, I would rank QBs like this in 2025:

I am really not a fan of Goff or Hurts. One throws a ton of INTs in the playoffs and the other was a game manager this year.

Burrow

Mahomes

Jackson

Allen

Love

Purdy

Mayfield

Kyler

Stafford

Daniels

Goff

Herbert

Stroud

Hurts

Darnold

Tua

 

[kerouac9]

Does this also apply to the 4 divisional games that LAR won by 4 pts or less?

Yup. LARM won 10 games against a win expectancy of 8. They’ll be better on defense and perhaps offense next year, so they may not have as many close games.

 

[cardinals2025]

The inconvenient truth is,...we also had the same feeling for 2024,
even as bad as it went, we looked like a playoff team for most of the season...but that damned pesky BYE

I maintain that 2024 = 2020. And our defense is on pace to improve more in 2025 than it did in 2021. Especially because this shows the 2024 defense was better than the 2020 defense, but our schedule was ALSO tougher. Also the offense in 2021 outscored the one in 2020 with LESS yards. That is the effect of a defensive improvement. What happens when our improvement is bigger?

Harrison and Benson will improve. In 2020, Kyler had his soph slump. In 2024, it was his first year removed from an ACL. They say your 2nd year is when you are fully recovered especially mentally. Just some more similarities.

Personally, I remember when I broke my ankle and when I stopped thinking about it and it wasn’t when I was able to play basketball again. It takes more time for it to get out of your head. Kyler admitted he got hurt in the 2nd half of the Bills game momentarily btw.

And I just think people underestimate how the injury and aging in general made him more mature. You dont reach peak brain function as a male usually until your mid to late 20s. Plus it was the first time football got taken away from him. Even if his 2nd half performance didn’t instantly improve yet, it doesn’t mean its not a coming possibility. Losing use of your leg for a year can change your perspective on life, thats a real phenenemon.


We just have more reasons to be optimistic than pessimistic as a whole. People just don’t want to get fooled again which is reasonable. But the overall lack of strength of our division and our easier schedule compared to last season should make you more hopeful.


And this is why when people say “Oh another year Kyler fans have all this hope and are gonna be let down again.” It is nowhere near the same as before. I don’t want to give you the offensive line being an issue for us because that also gives Kyler an excuse. And I don’t believe he should have any excuses this year no matter what happens as long as he plays and our stars are relatively healthy.

If we have 9 wins and miss the playoffs without kyler getting hurt or something, there is a bigger problem here that can’t be fixed.

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[iLLmatiC]

Do people here believe this? Like more than a handful? I think the breakdown is more like:

< 10% believe Kyler can be a top eight quarterback (alongside Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow) -- might be closer to 5% right now, but will rise in the next three-game win streak

~ 70% believe Kyler can be in the 8-12 range -- good enough to make the playoffs but can only make and win a conference championship team if the stars align with the roster around him

~20% believe Kyler is inside the middle third (12-24) and is unlikely to rise above that, making a playoff appearance and early exit the highest aspiration

~ 5% believe Kyler is a bum

Id say swap the 70 and 20% and I think you’re on track.

 

[cardinals2025]

I guess if you don't expect Murray to be able to beat good defenses, he's meeting your expectations well.

Yeah and I guess Joe Burrow also sucks since he is only 38-30 even though he is on pace to beat Mahomes career stats and has the same QBR. But his record is all his fault.

Wheras, Jalen Hurts who is 46-20 is just a much better QB than Burrow. The defense has no effect on the result of their games either.

Kyler beat the defense. Our defense gave up 23 points, which is below average.

You expect him to beat EVERY great defense while he has had a BELOW average or average at best defense.

That is insane.

AZ DEF is allowing 24.6 ppg since 2019. Kyler has a 44.5% win percentage which is better than the average projection below.

PROOF:

We Discovered the Best Way to Judge a QB in the Regular Season Part 1

Recently, an article based on a quarterback's postseason success was posted here. Some of the many points stated in that article will be stated here as well. Some people like to call any quarterback…

takethissports.com

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KYLERS CAREER

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Our defense can probably be in the close to 11th or better this year. Which means Kyler has no excuse based on past history.

 

[cardinals2025]

Yup. LARM won 10 games against a win expectancy of 8. They’ll be better on defense and perhaps offense next year, so they may not have as many close games.

And we got 8 when our win expectancy was 9.

1. Rams have toughest schedule in division by far. 2nd half in particular is brutal. You gotta show me how they get 11 wins without sweeping someone in the division.


VS HOU

AT TEN

AT PHI

VS IND

VS SF

AT BAL

VS JAX



VS NO

VS SEA

VS TB

AT CAR

AT AZ

VS DET

AT SEA

AT ATL

VS AZ





2. Stafford has been regressing and I don't think one addition in offense that we shut down already last year is gonna make the difference. Puka Nucua coming back is the bigger issue for us.

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3. Their defense may indeed improve, but ours has more talent and allowed less points even last year.

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Poona Ford is a younger version of Calais Campbell. But that is their only improvement on defense.

Shelton is an upgrade from a below average center to an average one.

Adams is nowhere near as worrisome as Nucua.


4. Rams univerally got average to poor NFL draft grades.

 

[oaken1]

Yeah and I guess Joe Burrow also sucks since he is only 38-30 even though he is on pace to beat Mahomes career stats and has the same QBR. But his record is all his fault.

Wheras, Jalen Hurts who is 46-20 is just a much better QB than Burrow. The defense has no effect on the result of their games either.

Kyler beat the defense. Our defense gave up 23 points, which is below average.

You expect him to beat EVERY great defense while he has had a BELOW average or average at best defense.

That is insane.

AZ DEF is allowing 24.6 ppg since 2019. Kyler has a 44.5% win percentage which is better than the average projection below.

PROOF:

We Discovered the Best Way to Judge a QB in the Regular Season Part 1

Recently, an article based on a quarterback's postseason success was posted here. Some of the many points stated in that article will be stated here as well. Some people like to call any quarterback…

takethissports.com

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KYLERS CAREER

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Our defense can probably be in the close to 11th or better this year. Which means Kyler has no excuse based on past history.

I like that method...even though none is perfect this one takes a lot into consideration.
Back in 2021, that defensive ranking was earned solely based on an inflated turnover ratio over the first half of the season.
we debated it pretty heavy with some guys saying we sucked and others pointing out that at the end of the day you are who the numbers and results say you are...but a +3 turnover ratio per game just cannot be maintained very long.
Those stats are interesting,..based on that metric Mahomes is awesome...that .2 bumps him into the next tier and has him winning more than double the expected win rate.

But it also points out the frustrations with Kyler...the kid has moments where he is amazing...thats why it is so frustrating when he chokes.

Petzing really needs to design some moving pocket plays and some rollouts. Kyler throws on the run better than just about any QB in the league...the first couple years it was a blast to see him spin out...roll to the side,...then drop a thirty yard pass into the WR pocket..total dimes.

But a combination of things changed that...when Kyler bulked up a few years back his deep ball accuracy tanked. he trimmed back down during injury recovery but the deep ball never came back..hopefully it does.

I understand what Petzing is trying to do..making Kyler a pocket passer makes the game easier for the receivers and the line and will extend Kylers career..but there is a difference between rolling out and running...kyler plays his best ball when he is on the move.